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Bitcoin - Part 2

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jhunter1163 said:
And at the height of the frenzy, it was up around $1,250. Ask the guy who bought, say, 20 BTC at that point, and whose $25,000 investment is now worth about $9,500, what BTC is "up to".
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Oh I see, so as long as we cut the graph at your arbitrary points, you can claim it's down, rather than looking at the actual long-term trend from its creation until now, where it's skyrocketed.

By the way, I'm not surprised at all that you ignored me asking to hold you to your claims. Because I found this, from you, in the old thread...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7908540&postcount=702

"Actually, it looks like it's spiked up pretty sharply in the last week or so, not really a steady increase. And this mini-bubble will only last till one of the early adopters dumps a couple thousand back on the market, then it'll go back to around $3 (which is where it's been for months, and where it will likely stay.)"

Coupled with a nice, rude snicker not long after.

Now, regarding what you said before, that Dell and ebay are "pushing the risk off on Coinbase," let's quote something I said 3 years ago in the original thread, responding to someone saying there were too many security issues for it to be largely adopted...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7352897&postcount=360

All you're saying is that it's desirable for someone to develop convenient security software or security sites to accompany the Bitcoin client. That's inevitable...and is probably so easy to implement that I wouldn't even be surprised if they're free and open-sourced."

You, and several others, like the poster in my sig, owe the people who were respectfully and patiently explaining Bitcoin, an apology.
 
I won't dispute it's a currency. But it doesn't work very well as a currency for reasons already discussed ad nauseum. So I would treat it as an investment commodity rather than a currency.
 
jhunter1163 said:
And at the height of the frenzy, it was up around $1,250. Ask the guy who bought, say, 20 BTC at that point, and whose $25,000 investment is now worth about $9,500, what BTC is "up to".
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cherrypicker.jpg
 
EGarrett said:
You, and several others, like the poster in my sig, owe the people who were respectfully and patiently explaining Bitcoin, an apology.
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Oh, I understand Bitcoin fully, make no apology for my previous comments, and stand by them. Bitcoin will inevitably be obsoleted by the big banks. It might take a year or two, but at least one of the bigs has already patented a virtual private lockbox (essentially the same tech as Bitcoin, with the added advantage of being denominated in USD). The market for such a thing is probably too small right now to justify the marketing expense, but when that changes Bitcoin will be relegated to the shadows from whence it came.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Oh, I understand Bitcoin fully, make no apology for my previous comments, and stand by them. Bitcoin will inevitably be obsoleted by the big banks. It might take a year or two, but at least one of the bigs has already patented a virtual private lockbox (essentially the same tech as Bitcoin, with the added advantage of being denominated in USD). The market for such a thing is probably too small right now to justify the marketing expense, but when that changes Bitcoin will be relegated to the shadows from whence it came.
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Good thing the "big banks" have cheerleaders like you, they have fallen on hard times recently and need all the support they can get.

I'm sure all of the bitcoin supporters are simply waiting for the big banks to get their acts together and come up with a real solution that doesn't benefit the big banks.
 
Tippit said:
Good thing the "big banks" have cheerleaders like you, they have fallen on hard times recently and need all the support they can get.

I'm sure all of the bitcoin supporters are simply waiting for the big banks to get their acts together and come up with a real solution that doesn't benefit the big banks.
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Surely you're not so naive as to think that the big banks would ever do anything for humanitarian reasons. If the market's big enough to make a profit, they'll roll the VPL out. I'm sure they're gathering data on transaction volume even as we type.
 
Tippit said:
Good thing the "big banks" have cheerleaders like you, they have fallen on hard times recently and need all the support they can get.
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Did jhunter ever say it was a good or bad thing, or was he just predicting what would happen ? Or is even that cheerleading because the conclusion disagrees with you ?
 
jhunter1163 said:
Bitcoin will inevitably be obsoleted by the big banks. It might take a year or two, but at least one of the bigs has already patented a virtual private lockbox (essentially the same tech as Bitcoin, with the added advantage of being denominated in USD).
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jhunter1163 said:
Here you go. It's JPMorgan Chase doing this, but the others are no doubt watching with interest.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/10/technology/bitcoin-jpmorgan/
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That doesn't seem to be "essentially the same" to me.
There are two major differences between that and bitcoin.

While you would be able to make and receive payments anonymously with this system, the ownership of the account itself would most likely not be anonymous. The bank (and any government or law enforcement service that can produce a warrant to look at the account) would still know who the money belongs to.

Also, since it's being handled by financial institutions rather than being fully decentralized, the government can force them to freeze your account. With bitcoin, they have to get hold of your keys/wallet before they can do anything with your account. They can't freeze a bitcoin account without them.
 
Almo said:
I won't dispute it's a currency. But it doesn't work very well as a currency for reasons already discussed ad nauseum. So I would treat it as an investment commodity rather than a currency.
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How one individual treats it is irrelevant. You don't use Yen or Marks, but that does not negate them as currency. Both would be speculative investments for you, but that is not what others are doing it with it. This is a strange kind of closed-mindedness. "I don't use it personally, therefore it isn't used by others".

They are using it as currency, whether you like it or not.
 
Brian-M said:
That doesn't seem to be "essentially the same" to me.
There are two major differences between that and bitcoin.

While you would be able to make and receive payments anonymously with this system, the ownership of the account itself would most likely not be anonymous. The bank (and any government or law enforcement service that can produce a warrant to look at the account) would still know who the money belongs to.
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The security tech is the same algorithm. And I don't have a problem with a government or law enforcement agency knowing who owns my account, since I don't engage in any activities that would motivate them to come and seize it. It's the security that is appealing.

Also, since it's being handled by financial institutions rather than being fully decentralized, the government can force them to freeze your account. With bitcoin, they have to get hold of your keys/wallet before they can do anything with your account. They can't freeze a bitcoin account without them.
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Since about one of every eight bitcoins ever mined has been stolen, this doesn't seem to be too difficult.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Oh, I understand Bitcoin fully, make no apology for my previous comments, and stand by them. Bitcoin will inevitably be obsoleted by the big banks. It might take a year or two, but at least one of the bigs has already patented a virtual private lockbox (essentially the same tech as Bitcoin, with the added advantage of being denominated in USD). The market for such a thing is probably too small right now to justify the marketing expense, but when that changes Bitcoin will be relegated to the shadows from whence it came.
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Ignoring 90% of the conversation, claiming you "stand by your previous comments," then try to quote something that has nothing to do with your previous comments, are classic evasive tactics.

Your bad behavior and demonstrably false claims are not going to disappear until you own up to them.

By the way, that statement I made from 3 years ago?

Bitcoin wallet Coinbase returns to the App Store via company-endorsed open-source iOS app

I just went to the App Store also. The one that came up for "Coinbase" is listed as free too.

So yup, that's right. The Coinbase app that you yourself pointed to as some kind of excuse for why eBay was integrating Bitcoin is both FREE and OPEN-SOURCED. Which is EXACTLY what I said would inevitably appear to trigger this.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7352897&postcount=360

EGarrett said:
"All you're saying is that it's desirable for someone to develop convenient security software or security sites to accompany the Bitcoin client. That's inevitable...and is probably so easy to implement that I wouldn't even be surprised if they're free and open-sourced."
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Emphasis mine.

You were dead-wrong on your predictions and you and others were highly immature and rude and inappropriate on top of it.

Own up to it.
 
EGarrett said:
Ignoring 90% of the conversation... <snip>
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I am not "ignoring" anything. eBay, Overstock.com and the other retailers (with a few trivial exceptions) do not accept Bitcoin; they accept USD from Coinbase, who accepts BTC from purchasers. The volatility risk falls on Coinbase, not on eBay or Overstock, which is how the retailers want it, I'm sure. Until some retailer accepts BTC directly, there's nothing new under the sun.

And I'll make an avatar bet that Coinbase is hacked before the end of the year. It's just too tempting a target for the scammers.

If you want a source for my "one in eight" claim, I listed the major thefts in the previous thread. Including Mt. Gox, the total was something around 1.5 million BTC, or about one in eight of all BTC ever mined.
 
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jhunter1163 said:
Oh, I understand Bitcoin fully, make no apology for my previous comments, and stand by them. Bitcoin will inevitably be obsoleted by the big banks. It might take a year or two, but at least one of the bigs has already patented a virtual private lockbox (essentially the same tech as Bitcoin, with the added advantage of being denominated in USD). The market for such a thing is probably too small right now to justify the marketing expense, but when that changes Bitcoin will be relegated to the shadows from whence it came.
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You aren't doing yourself any favors by living in denial or moving goalposts.

Bitcoin will probably be replaced eventually as the main crypto currency but that's not different than many new products. Someone puts the first one out there, issues are discovered, others get into the market, improvements are made, and someone else becomes #1.
 
The_Animus said:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. You aren't doing yourself any favors by living in denial or moving goalposts.

Bitcoin will probably be replaced eventually as the main crypto currency but that's not different than many new products. Someone puts the first one out there, issues are discovered, others get into the market, improvements are made, and someone else becomes #1.
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I'm not sure where you get the idea that I've moved the goalposts; you just said pretty much what I said in my posts about the VPL. The encryption tech is the appealing thing; that's what the big banks will coopt and roll out as the VPL or similar. BTC will go back to being the currency of choice for drug dealers and child-porn purveyors, and the would-be get-rich-quick speculators who got burned in the various thefts will go on about their way, poorer but hopefully wiser in the ways of chasing rainbows.
 
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