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zen

Marduk said:
Master is my official job title and I get paid for it, where can I get some of this enlightenment, would I have more chance of picking some up anywhere else but this thread ?
:D
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This thread can not offer you enlightenment.

(well, I could, but you're scary)

:boxedin:
 
Marduk said:
Master is my official job title and I get paid for it, where can I get some of this enlightenment, would I have more chance of picking some up anywhere else but this thread ?
:D
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Sorry. I have added zen before master.
 
nowornever said:
Zen Master Seung Sahn became Great Zen Master(DSSN) after being given the highest possible rank in Korean Buddhism, a golden rope at the age of 60.
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Something about this doesn't sound right. Isn't giving out golden status symbol regalia for achievements in Zen kind of like giving out all-expense-paid trips to Las Vegas for achievements in asceticism?
 
Myriad said:
Something about this doesn't sound right. Isn't giving out golden status symbol regalia for achievements in Zen kind of like giving out all-expense-paid trips to Las Vegas for achievements in asceticism?
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Their actions contradict their enlightenment.
 
Myriad said:
Something about this doesn't sound right. Isn't giving out golden status symbol regalia for achievements in Zen kind of like giving out all-expense-paid trips to Las Vegas for achievements in asceticism?
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Yes, but in the latter case, at least they will have earned it.
 
nowornever said:
ynot - I cannot give the answer to the thief. The one who wants the answer from someone else is a thief. You want to be a thief! If I give you the answer, you must hit me!
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how about some easier questions then
if a tree falls over in a forest and theres no one there to hear it, will anyone care if it makes a sound or not ?

too difficult, ok, easier question
hmmm
if I open a gay bar and call it "Bar fudge", would it always be packed ?
:confused:
 
nowornever said:
ynot - I cannot give the answer to the thief. The one who wants the answer from someone else is a thief. You want to be a thief! If I give you the answer, you must hit me!
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I've found that this is a great indicator of nonsense. If you ask a scientist a question, the trick is getting them to shut up after your question has been answered. There are scientists I won't ask a quesiton unless I've got at least two hours to kill--and I'm talking "Hey, could you remind me how to do this calculation? I've got most of it, but I'm getting stuck at this part." (That one took an entire afternoon, despite the question being answered in about 30 seconds.) In contrast, peddlers of insanity insist that they can't just give you konwledge--you have to EARN it, by some undefined method.

This is based on a very real phenomenon: Until one knows enough to properly evaluate new information, that new information is meaningless or open to misinterpretation. However, the peddler of insanity ignores the fact that almost any scientist will teach anyone interested the material necessary to understand what they're doing. That's why so many scientists are on these boards, for example. People that espouse mystic knowledge refuse to do so. Scientists also say things like "Well, it's probably over your head, but basically here's how it is". NO scientist would EVER accuse someone of being a theif merely for asking for an explination.

I've come to the conclusion that the reason for this is that scientists CAN give explinations. If you asked me "Why do you think that landform is an erosional feature rather than a depositional feature?" (to pick one that's come up in the past 72 hours), I can (and did) give my reasons and evidence to support my conclusion. In contrast, "enlightened" mystics never seem to have evidence, and their reasons tend to boil down to faith. So they react with hostility when questioned--it agrevates their cognitive dissonence.
 
ynot said:
Their actions contradict their enlightenment.
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Oh, they are 'enlightened' all right, just ask their bankers.

And they've en-'lightened' the wallets of thousands of devotees like our new friend who can't answer any questions about Zen Buddhism, because he's never been given any answers.
 
nowornever said:
Zen Master Seung Sahn became Great Zen Master(DSSN) after being given the highest possible rank in Korean Buddhism, a golden rope at the age of 60.
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A Zen master would never believe they have reached the highest possible rank, as hierarchies belong to the ego and have no place in Zen.

In other words, this claim clearly demonstrates he is a fraud who is only out to steal money and feed his ego. He obviously does not care about his students, and knows nothing about satori.
 
crimresearch said:
Oh, they are 'enlightened' all right, just ask their bankers.

And they've en-'lightened' the wallets of thousands of devotees like our new friend who can't answer any questions about Zen Buddhism, because he's never been given any answers.
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Yet he knows he has correctly answered so many questions and what answers are "incorrect". Amazing init.
 
Hokulele said:
A Zen master would never believe they have reached the highest possible rank, as hierarchies belong to the ego and have no place in Zen.

In other words, this claim clearly demonstrates he is a fraud who is only out to steal money and feed his ego. He obviously does not care about his students, and knows nothing about satori.
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Unfortunately, though I and Ikkyu agree with you, this sort of thing has gone on for centuries within zen.
 
And on the topic, here is the actual Hakuin koan that is misquoted so often:

" “In clapping both hands a sound is heard; what then is the sound of one hand?"

The point isn't for the student to 'get' some secret answer known only to a superior few, the point is that no matter what the student answers, it tells the Zen master something about the state of that particular student's monkey mind ( Another vital Zen concept that our Kwan Um follower is missing out on).

So again, the enlightening Korean word about this thread is not 'zen', it is nak-si
 
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