Zapata

[~enigma~]

You make the worst debating mistake of all by attacking the speaker rather than the argument.

Congratulations you have joined the CF Larsen Club!

And you make arguments attributing things I didn't say to me...you have graduated from the Alex Jones school of strawman building. Here they forgot to give you your diploma...

 

[SDC]

Maybe we can report this to the mods as a false flag thread. It masqueraded as a peon... no, that's wrong... As a thread about Marlon Brando's greatest movie role. And what do we get instead? Barbara Bush shot JFK. (Probably aiming for Jackie because of the latter's annoyingly overpowering fashion sense.)

Jeez louise...

 

[~enigma~]

Maybe we can report this to the mods as a false flag thread. It masqueraded as a peon... no, that's wrong... As a thread about Marlon Brando's greatest movie role. And what do we get instead? Barbara Bush shot JFK. (Probably aiming for Jackie because of the latter's annoyingly overpowering fashion sense.)

Jeez louise...

thought it was about a spanish woman's shoe

 

[photolina]

Nuts. I thought, from the title, this was going to be a discussion of the Mexican revolution of the early part of the 20th century, or even of -- do I remember this right? -- Marlon Brando's rendition of a Mexican Indian revolutionary.

Instead it is some horse pucky blaming the Bush family for the world's ills.

I think Jeb, Neil, and W. were playing with their pop guns on 22d November and whoops, well, you know the rest.

Finally a descent response, I’m Mexican born there but raised here in the U.S. I know more about U.S. History. I should know better that to listens to this. I’m not remembering my Mexican History which I have to freshen up. But I do agree with you in this history fact. I honestly though I would have been a more provoking discussion.

 

[CFLarsen]

CFL asks:

Claus, you are being one dimensional. What you need here is a sense of history....

I seriously doubt that I need you to teach me history.

by David Malmo-Levine (20 Oct, 2004)
Four generations of war and drug war profiteers are at the heart of America's power structure.

PART ONE: THE DEATH MERCHANT AND THE NAZI BANKER

"If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched." – George H W Bush, cited in the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3579.html

"cannabisculture.com", Steve?

Can you produce this newsletter?

See also this posting from Houston Craigslist:

http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/709642171.html

Why should I pay attention to what some anonymous person rambles about?

You can probably make a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy.

Are you?

JFK was initially tough on Communist Cuba but was considered soft when he backed out of supporting the Bay of Pigs invasion. Both he and Bobby's support for civil rights in the U.S. could have been too much for the Nazis to bear.

Come again? What "Nazis"?

JFK also equivocated on another anti-communist effort, the Viet Nam conflict which was left to his survivor, Johnson, to prosecute and his successor, Nixon, to end, in failure. So the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK..?

Yes, Steve? Are you going to answer that question - or leave a trail of unfinished sentences and half-claims?

Zapata had a contract with Kuwait.

So?

They also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese.

So?

This must be giving GHW and GW apolexy. GW Bush the other day called for resumption of off shore drilling in the U.S. in response to the oil price crisis engineered by everything he has done so far. Resumption of off shore oil drilling could ressurect Zapata innovations in this field. They have since become Pennzoil, best known for supplying crankcase oil for automobiles. But daddy's brain child, Zapata, could rise again! Does that help answer your question?

Not really. You are talking about history (e.g., Zapata merged with South Penn Oil and other companies in 1963) - hardly "current affairs".

So, I ask again: What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

 

[Foolmewunz]

Steve, c'mon!

Go read fifty google results on any of the connections to Bush or Nixon or even Hoover being in Dallas that week. The worst sort of connect-the-dots journalism you can find. Is it that hard to think of reasons why Bush might be in Texas? Johnson? Even Nixon?

Oh, but wow, man... on the same day?

Amazon (should have) said:
People who like this book also ordered "More Crud by Daniel Hopsicker".

Have fun. Since no evidence is required, you can read up on this for weeks. And everything you find will be the same sort of argument from incredulity.

Oh, and personally? I think Joan Crawford did it.

 

[SDC]

Oh, and personally? I think Joan Crawford did it.

This is insane. Are you claiming that Jackie used wire coat hangers? Ever?

 

[Foolmewunz]

This is insane. Are you claiming that Jackie used wire coat hangers? Ever?

Actually on one of those sites I mentioned (okay, I didn't read fifty during this run, but I have over the last couple of years)... They mention the Pepsi loss of their Cuban sugar plantation and Joan's utter fury over that. And connecting the dots... well, obviously she talked to their corporate council, a certain R.M. Nixon about it and then he and his CIA buddies took care of that traitor, Kennedy.

And... and... then the CIA orchestrated Watergate to get rid of Nixon (to replace him with Agnew or Rockefeller or Ford??? well, it's their idea, not mine), and gave him a penthouse in New York to shut him up.

Or something like that. It's hard to make sense of them as they seem to be having a creative writing contest, and everyone has their primary dots connecting to all sorts of different dots. Sorta like the in-fighting in the 911 Truth Movement.


(And, as proof, well it's obvious! As you can see, the omnipotent NWO/CIA/Illuminati achieved their goal. We took over Cuba in '64 and repatriated all the wealth to the American companies who had been wronged.)

BTW, the above somewhat tongue-in-cheek paragraph reminds me....
To all conspiradroid who actually believe in these tenuous connections proving anything:
Why is it that they can cover up the assasination for 45 years, take down the WTC, fake a moon landing, snuff a princess, crash Ron Brown's plane, and all those other fantasist beliefs (which, it should be added, would run counter to the wishes of almost all Americans),....

And yet they couldn't muster the power to convince a few important individuals to broker a small water with Cuba - something that probably more than half the country would have supported at various times? Russia hasn't been a threat for over fifteen years. And those same NWO rulers are still in place running everything (according to Tarpley and Hopsicker and friends) and the evil Commies are still running Cuba? How's that? Did they change their minds?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Finally a descent response, I’m Mexican born there but raised here in the U.S. I know more about U.S. History. I should know better that to listens to this. I’m not remembering my Mexican History which I have to freshen up. But I do agree with you in this history fact. I honestly though I would have been a more provoking discussion.

Just to put this thread back on the rails and to set the record straight regarding the title Zapata, I provide the following quote from the URL originally provided in the OP which apparently a few people decided not to look at before voicing therir opinions on the title.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation


Zapata Corporation is a holding company based in Rochester, New York and originating from an oil company started by a group including the former United States president George H. W. Bush. Various writers have found links between the company and the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

The company traces its origins to Zapata Oil, founded in 1953 by George H. W. Bush, along with his business partners John Overbey, Hugh Liedtke, Bill Liedtke, and Thomas J. Devine. Bush and Thomas J. Devine were oil-wildcatting associates.[citation needed] Their joint activities culminated in the establishment of Zapata Oil.[1] The initial $1 million investment for Zapata was provided by the Liedtke brothers and their circle of investors and by Bush's father and uncle—Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker Bush—and his family circle of friends.
Hugh Liedtke was named president, Bush was vice president; Overbey soon left. In 1954, Zapata Off-Shore Company was formed as a subsidiary, with Bush as president. He raised some startup money from Eugene Meyer, publisher of the Washington Post, and his son-in-law, Phillip Graham.[2][3]

Zapata Off-Shore accepted an offer from an inventor, R. G. LeTourneau, for the development of a mobile but secure drilling rig. Zapata advanced him $400,000. The sum was to be refundable if the completed rig did not function. If it did function, LeTourneau would get an additional $550,000 together with 38,000 shares of Zapata Off-Shore common stock. Zapata split in 1959 into Zapata Petroleum headed by the Liedtkes and Zapata Off-Shore, headed by Bush, funded with $800,000.[4] Bush moved his offices and family that year from Midland, Texas to Houston. Zapata Petroleum merged in 1963 with South Penn Oil and other companies to become Pennzoil.

According to a biographer of George H. W. Bush, Zapata Off-Shore in the late 1950s and early 1960s concentrated its business in the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Central American coast.[5] The US government began to auction off mineral rights to these areas in 1954. Drilling contracts in 1958 with the seven large US oil producers included wells 40 miles north of Isabela, Cuba, near the island Cay Sal. Fidel Castro overthrew Cuba's Batista government in July 1959.

Zapata also won a contract with Kuwait. Bush was joined in Zapata by a fellow Yale Skull and Bones member, Robert Gow, in 1962. Zapata Off-Shore had four oil-drilling rigs operational by 1963: Scorpion (1956), Vinegaroon (1957), Sidewinder, and (in the Persian Gulf) Nola III.
By 1964, Zapata Off-Shore had a number of subsidiaries, including: Seacat-Zapata Offshore Company (Persian Gulf), Zapata de Mexico, Zapata International Corporation, Zapata Mining Corporation, Zavala Oil Company, Zapata Overseas Corporation, and a 41% share of Amata Gas Corporation.

 

[SDC]

No, I did follow the OP, I just thought this was about the silliest thing I'd seen in, say, the previous 15 minutes. I felt I was giving the OP the response it deserved.

Tell me more about this women's shoe thing... There is something about women's shoes....

 

[CptColumbo]

No, I did follow the OP, I just thought this was about the silliest thing I'd seen in, say, the previous 15 minutes. I felt I was giving the OP the response it deserved.

Tell me more about this women's shoe thing... There is something about women's shoes....

We've reached the "shoe event horizon."

 

[SteveGrenard]

No, I did follow the OP, I just thought this was about the silliest thing I'd seen in, say, the previous 15 minutes. I felt I was giving the OP the response it deserved.

Tell me more about this women's shoe thing... There is something about women's shoes....

So you find the debate over offshore drilling silly? oookay.

http://www.alligator.org/articles/2008/07/01/opinion/editorials/080701_eddy.txt

It is nearly impossible to find a silver lining in $4–a–gallon gasoline. But if one is to be found, it is in the fact that skyrocketing prices at the pump and the resulting anger and discontent felt by Americans from sea to shining sea are forcing our politicians to finally have a much needed debate on what should be done to solve the nation’s dependency on foreign oil.

Regrettably, the contours of this debate have been shaped by unabashed duplicity and a complete disregard for reality. Instead of being honest with the American people about the need to develop alternative energy and to curb consumption of fossil fuels, the Bush administration, Sen. John McCain, Gov. Charlie Crist and a legion of right–wing radio talkers have propagated the myth made out of equal parts deception and delusion that we can simply drill our way out of dependence on foreign despots for our energy needs.

And for a fairly comprehensive wrap-up of the off shore drilling “debate” up to today see the following article from the Associated Press:

Companies begin quest for oil, gas off Florida
By MELISSA NELSON – 5 hours ago
PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) — Oil companies once viewed drilling in the deep waters off Florida as cost prohibitive. Politicians feared even the slightest sign of support would be career suicide.

No more. Record crude oil prices are fueling support for oil and natural gas exploration off the nation's shores. In Florida, movement was underway even before President Bush called on Congress last month to lift a federal moratorium that's barred new offshore drilling since 1981.

The early activity here stems from a 2006 Congressional compromise that allows drilling on 8.3 million acres more than 125 miles off the Panhandle — an area that had been covered by the moratorium, which was enacted out of environmental concerns. In exchange, the state got a no-drilling buffer along the rest of its beaches.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iAmaMKv9dF1vMEghI_Y9HKQruRnAD91NIT680

And so to the person who asks how GHW Bush influences current affairs, I will once again point to the regime change in Iraq which required its invasion and the the expenditure of nearly a trillion dollars, thousands and thousands of lives, theirs and ours, in order to avenge the death threats made upon GHW Bush by the late and non-lamented Saddem Hussein.

It is also indisputable that current oil prices have created a huge opportunity for GHW Bush’s company, Zapata and its various subsidiaries, as a provider of equipment and support services for U.S. off shore drilling which has become not only financially attractive but necessary, another important influence of GHW Bush on current affairs.

 

[SteveGrenard]

But what really jarred me in the wikipedia article was the allegation that Zapata also may've acted as a CIA front in time for the Cuban adventures including the JFK-messed up Bay of Pigs invasion. GHW Bush, of course, later became one of a long line of CIA Directors. So another question of the CTers is whether he was in office at the CIA long enough to get all the Zapata related documents destroyed?

 

[CFLarsen]

Let's get this back on track.

Steve,

• Can you produce the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter?
  
• Why should I pay attention to what some anonymous person rambles about?
  
• Are you making a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy?
  
• What "Nazis" are you talking about that found JFK's and Robert Kennedy's support for civil rights in the U.S. "too much to bear"?
  
• Do you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK?
  
• What if Zapata had a contract with Kuwait?
  
• What if Zapata also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese?
  
• What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Here are my replies to your list:

Let's get this back on track.

• Can you produce the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter?
  
  A: This was a quote by someone else and registered as thus. I do not have this newsletter.
  
• Why should I pay attention to what some anonymous person rambles about?
  
  A:Only if it makes any sense to you. Otherwise feel free not to.
  
  
• Are you making a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy?
  
  A: No. I said others seem to be implying this.
  
• What "Nazis" are you talking about that found JFK's and Robert Kennedy's support for civil rights in the U.S. "too much to bear"?
  
  A: You are obviously not familiar with the American Nazi Party and the various neo-Nazi groups in the U.S. that were functioning in this period of our history. They turned out at civil rights demonstrations (supported by JFK/RFK) to heckle and start riots.
  
• Do you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK?
  
  A: The fact that he was considered soft on communist Cuba (see Bay of Pigs fiasco) and strong on civil rights, two natural enemies of Nazi ideology is used by some to make this case.
  
• What if Zapata had a contract with Kuwait?
  
  A: It is mentioned in the wiki article.
  
• What if Zapata also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese?
  
  A: The waters off Cuba being drilled by the Chinese undoubtedly contain the same oil reserves claimed by the U.S. as being off our shore. Remember Cuba and Key West are extremely close to each other. It is ironic that the U.S. couldn't drill these waters but the Chinese could.
  
  
• What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?
  
  A: See posts above. He is our current President's father. He is not senile. Anything that benefits him benefits his family and that includes GW Bush. Let's not be so naive as to believe the current occupant of the White House ignores his father's best interests.
  

 

[SteveGrenard]

foolme:

And yet they couldn't muster the power to convince a few important individuals to broker a small water (war?) with Cuba - something that probably more than half the country would have supported at various times?

I think the problem with this is that there are many Cuban-Americans who have loved ones in Cuba who were and still are being held hostage by the regime there. If the U.S. attacked Cuba you can be sure Fidel and Raul would make sure they were placed in harm's way.

 

[CFLarsen]

# A: This was a quote by someone else and registered as thus. I do not have this newsletter.

Then, you are quoting something that you can't verify - and don't care if you can.

A:Only if it makes any sense to you. Otherwise feel free not to.

Steve, it doesn't matter if it makes sense to people. Astrology makes sense to some people. Fath healing makes sense to some people. Mediumship makes sense to some people - you included.

A: No. I said others seem to be implying this.

No, you didn't. You opened the possibility that it was Nazi influence that both JFK and RFK. Now, you back down from that.

A: You are obviously not familiar with the American Nazi Party and the various neo-Nazi groups in the U.S. that were functioning in this period of our history. They turned out at civil rights demonstrations (supported by JFK/RFK) to heckle and start riots.

Once again, you try to twist things. I asked you which "Nazis" you meant. I didn't say I wasn't familiar with the ones you now mention.

There were many groups who found JFK/RFK's support for civil rights "too much to bear". Why specifically mention the American Nazi Party and the neo-Nazi groups? Why do you want these groups to be connected to the Bush family? Or, is it the other way around? You want the Bushes to be connected to Nazis?

A: The fact that he was considered soft on communist Cuba (see Bay of Pigs fiasco) and strong on civil rights, two natural enemies of Nazi ideology is used by some to make this case.

That doesn't answer the question. I asked if you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK. Do you?

A: It is mentioned in the wiki article.

So what? Lots of companies had a contract with Kuwait.

A: The waters off Cuba being drilled by the Chinese undoubtedly contain the same oil reserves claimed by the U.S. as being off our shore.

Do you know, or are you merely guessing?

Remember Cuba and Key West are extremely close to each other. It is ironic that the U.S. couldn't drill these waters but the Chinese could.

Why?

A: See posts above. He is our current President's father. He is not senile. Anything that benefits him benefits his family and that includes GW Bush. Let's not be so naive as to believe the current occupant of the White House ignores his father's best interests.

Very tenuous line of reasoning, Steve. Your argument is weak, and is based on speculation, non-existing evidence and pure conspiracy thinking.

 

[Dumb All Over]

When I was born, my parents purchased 1 share of Zapata Oil to commemorate the birth. I still have that certificate somewhere, 47 years later. Hmmm, I wonder how much it might be worth, if anything.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

When I was born, my parents purchased 1 share of Zapata Oil to commemorate the birth. I still have that certificate somewhere, 47 years later. Hmmm, I wonder how much it might be worth, if anything.

probably not much, according to wikipedia they did 1-for-10 reverse split in 2001, which means your one stock would just take a cash payment, which wouldnt be much, otherwise they wouldnt be reverse splitting, lol

and thats assuming something in the first 40 years didnt somehow null the share

 

[Dumb All Over]

probably not much, according to wikipedia they did 1-for-10 reverse split in 2001, which means your one stock would just take a cash payment, which wouldnt be much, otherwise they wouldnt be reverse splitting, lol

and thats assuming something in the first 40 years didnt somehow null the share

So, it's probably not worth the paper it's printed on. Great.

So much for being a loyal NWO operative for all these years. For anyone wanting to join the movement, the payoff is lousy!