You.....Moderate!

[Bikewer]

Don't want folks to think that these caucases and primaries are skewed a bit to the right, but Newt just called Romney a "moderate" on CNN.
It did not seem to be a compliment....

 

[Puppycow]

Them's fightin' words.

 

[leftysergeant]

This is sort of along the GOP line since 2001.

"If you aint with us, yer with the terrorists."

 

[BravesFan]

It's what happens before every primary (and happens in both parties) due to the number of candidates, they need to secure any group of voters they can. So both parties cater to their extremes (which they promptly forget about come general election time cuz they know they have that vote secured).

The right tries to paint others as moderates and caters to the jesus freaks, The left tries to paint others as moderates and tries to cater to the single issue voters (environment, pro-choice, PETA...etc) then they forget about it and both sides try to become moderates because they need the vote from the middle who actually gives a crap about stuff like what the candidates actually say! lol

 

[theprestige]

Meh. Hardly surprising. Intra-party contests are all about rooting out idelogical impurities. Conversely, inter-party contests are all about marginalizing extremists.

 

[BravesFan]

Meh. Hardly surprising. Intra-party contests are all about rooting out idelogical impurities. Conversely, inter-party contests are all about marginalizing extremists.

I need to concentrate on concentrating my posts! well put!

 

[Nova Land]

It's what happens before every primary (and happens in both parties)...

Is it really?

We've got one example of 'moderate' used as a derogatory term by a serious presidential candidate presented in the OP. The other example which leaps to mind is Goldwater, 1964: "[E]xtremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And ... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" The Goldwater quote made an impression (and is still memorable) because it was unusual at the time.

Now I can recall non-candidates denouncing moderation fairly routinely over the years, a tradition which continues to this day. At Daily Kos it's fairly common to denounce Blue Dog Democrats, and I believe denunciation of Republicans as RINOs is even more common at right-wing sites.

And I can easily imagine that fringe candidates in both parties have denounced the front-runners as moderates (even though no specific example comes to my mind).

But I don't recall serious mainstream candidates denouncing moderation very much until recent years, and then primarily on the Republican side. If this has, indeed, been a common practice in both parties, could you provide some examples?

1976: There were a large number of candidates competing for the Democratic nomination. Which Democratic candidate(s) denounced the others as moderates? I do not recall Jimmy Carter running in the primary as a hyper-liberal and would be very surprised if you can turn up a quote by him denouncing one of the other candidates for being a moderate. (Too moderate on a specific issue, possibly; but that's not the same as denouncing someone as a moderate.)

1984: There were a large number of candidates competing for the Democratic nomination, the leading contenders being Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Jesse Jackson and John Glenn. Which Democratic candidate(s) denounced the others as moderates? I don't recall Walter Mondale running in the primary as a hyper-liberal.

1988: Again there were a large number of candidates competing. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates? I don't recall Michael Dukakis running in the primary as a hyper-liberal.

1992: Another large crowd of Democratic candidates. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates? I don't recall Bill Clinton running in the primary as a hyper-liberal.

2000: The two main Democratic contenders were Al Gore and Bill Bradley. Which one denounced the other for being a moderate?

2004: Again, a large number of contenders, some of the main ones being Kerry, Edwards, Clark, Dean, Gephardt and Kucinich. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates?

2008: Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were the main candidates after John Edwards implodes. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates?

It's quite possible that denunciations of other candidates as moderates have indeed been common and either I haven't heard them or I've heard them but failed to take notice. If that's the case, I'd be very interested in seeing some examples. Please provide specific quotes from mainstream Democratic presidential aspirants in which the word moderate is used as an insult.

 

[Crossbow]

If you ain't with us,

Then you is with them thar' MODERATES!

 

[Ladewig]

This is sort of along the GOP line since 2001.

"If you aint with us, yer with the terrorists."

Sometimes they use even stronger language: "If you ain't with us, you're with Obama."

 

[Mark6]

"Prepare to continue the epic struggle between good and neutral"

-- Zapp Brannigan

 

[BravesFan]

Is it really?

We've got one example of 'moderate' used as a derogatory term by a serious presidential candidate presented in the OP. The other example which leaps to mind is Goldwater, 1964: "[E]xtremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And ... moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" The Goldwater quote made an impression (and is still memorable) because it was unusual at the time.

Now I can recall non-candidates denouncing moderation fairly routinely over the years, a tradition which continues to this day. At Daily Kos it's fairly common to denounce Blue Dog Democrats, and I believe denunciation of Republicans as RINOs is even more common at right-wing sites.

And I can easily imagine that fringe candidates in both parties have denounced the front-runners as moderates (even though no specific example comes to my mind).

But I don't recall serious mainstream candidates denouncing moderation very much until recent years, and then primarily on the Republican side. If this has, indeed, been a common practice in both parties, could you provide some examples?

1976: There were a large number of candidates competing for the Democratic nomination. Which Democratic candidate(s) denounced the others as moderates? I do not recall Jimmy Carter running in the primary as a hyper-liberal and would be very surprised if you can turn up a quote by him denouncing one of the other candidates for being a moderate. (Too moderate on a specific issue, possibly; but that's not the same as denouncing someone as a moderate.)

1984: There were a large number of candidates competing for the Democratic nomination, the leading contenders being Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Jesse Jackson and John Glenn. Which Democratic candidate(s) denounced the others as moderates? I don't recall Walter Mondale running in the primary as a hyper-liberal.

1988: Again there were a large number of candidates competing. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates? I don't recall Michael Dukakis running in the primary as a hyper-liberal.

1992: Another large crowd of Democratic candidates. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates? I don't recall Bill Clinton running in the primary as a hyper-liberal.

2000: The two main Democratic contenders were Al Gore and Bill Bradley. Which one denounced the other for being a moderate?

2004: Again, a large number of contenders, some of the main ones being Kerry, Edwards, Clark, Dean, Gephardt and Kucinich. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates?

2008: Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were the main candidates after John Edwards implodes. Which one(s) denounced the others as moderates?

It's quite possible that denunciations of other candidates as moderates have indeed been common and either I haven't heard them or I've heard them but failed to take notice. If that's the case, I'd be very interested in seeing some examples. Please provide specific quotes from mainstream Democratic presidential aspirants in which the word moderate is used as an insult.

I recall the gentleman from Connecticut Leiberman being called a moderate by his opponents. I also recall Clinton being thrashed for his "moderate almost conservative views" during the 1992 democratic elections.

If you want cited sources, i don't care enough to go digging around for it on the internet...

 

[Nova Land]

I recall the gentleman from Connecticut Leiberman being called a moderate by his opponents.

Okay, that's a start. Lieberman ran in 2004; his main opponents were John Kerry, John Edwards, Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich and Dick Gephardt. (Al Sharpton, Carol Mosely Braun, and Bob Graham were also announced candidates.)

Can you recall which one(s) you think made the comments you think you recall hearing? Can you recall whether the comment was made during a debate, in a campaign ad, at a press conference, at a fund-raiser, anything at all?

It's quite possible such a remark was made. It's also quite possible you're misremembering. If you can provide some additional details, it may jog someone else's memory. If such a remark actually was made, it's likely you're not the only one who heard it, and it should be possible to track the comment down. (Especially if, as your comment implies, more than one candidate made such a remark.)

I also recall Clinton being thrashed for his "moderate almost conservative views" during the 1992 democratic elections.

Okay, that's another start. Clinton's main opponents were Jerry Brown, Paul Tsongas, Bob Kerrey and Tom Harkin.

Again, can you recall which one you think it was that used "moderate" as an insult? Can you recall in what context you think the remark was made?

If you want cited sources...

Yes, I do. Memory is often unreliable, so I'm not willing to take your word that you are are remembering what was said correctly.

If this kind of comment was common in presidential primaries of both parties, as you assert, then someone should be able to come up with examples. The more details you can provide, the easier it should be to track these examples down. But until such examples can be tracked down, your claim that such comments were common in both parties remains simply an unsourced claim.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Being non-radical is an insult these days, that is if you think with Fox News.

 

[Trakar]

Sometimes they use even stronger language: "If you ain't with us, you're with Obama."

So if you aren't in the right hand, you are on the right shoulder?

 

[BravesFan]

Okay, that's a start. Lieberman ran in 2004; his main opponents were John Kerry, John Edwards, Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich and Dick Gephardt. (Al Sharpton, Carol Mosely Braun, and Bob Graham were also announced candidates.)

Can you recall which one(s) you think made the comments you think you recall hearing? Can you recall whether the comment was made during a debate, in a campaign ad, at a press conference, at a fund-raiser, anything at all?

It's quite possible such a remark was made. It's also quite possible you're misremembering. If you can provide some additional details, it may jog someone else's memory. If such a remark actually was made, it's likely you're not the only one who heard it, and it should be possible to track the comment down. (Especially if, as your comment implies, more than one candidate made such a remark.)




Okay, that's another start. Clinton's main opponents were Jerry Brown, Paul Tsongas, Bob Kerrey and Tom Harkin.

Again, can you recall which one you think it was that used "moderate" as an insult? Can you recall in what context you think the remark was made?




Yes, I do. Memory is often unreliable, so I'm not willing to take your word that you are are remembering what was said correctly.

If this kind of comment was common in presidential primaries of both parties, as you assert, then someone should be able to come up with examples. The more details you can provide, the easier it should be to track these examples down. But until such examples can be tracked down, your claim that such comments were common in both parties remains simply an unsourced claim.

To be honest (in regards to Clinton) I'm not sure if it was one of the candidates or one of the pundits making the statement..... I thought that the "Blue Dog Democrat" label was thrown around quite a bit by all involved against Leiberman. Insinuating that he fraternized with the enemy... Kinda how it was used similarly against McCain by W's people...

I'm not a GOP or a DEM. I frankly don't think that when it gets down to the actual governing, that there's a whole lot of difference betwixt the two. It's no longer like the old adage "Daddy Republican keeps Mommy Democrat from spending all the money" like it was said in the mid 20th century now it's "Mommy and Daddy fight over who gets to spend the money". I'm kinda tired of both parties and I don't think either are "right" or have any moral or intellectual high ground.

Not to mention that in this age of 24 hr news and the internet Lincoln would be called "the worst president ever" in about 6 weeks after taking office. It's just gotten stupid out there! lol

 

[Nova Land]

To be honest (in regards to Clinton) I'm not sure if it was one of the candidates or one of the pundits making the statement...

Yes, that's what I rather suspected when you first posted your claim (that candidates in both parties routinely use the word moderate as an insult during primaries): that you were giving an opinion which wasn't really backed up by actual knowledge.

If you or anyone else can find actual examples of serious Democratic candidates for president using the word "moderate" as an insult, the way Gingrich did in the example Bikewer posted, please do. Until then, it would seem you were mistaken and the use of the word "moderate" as an insult by candidates during presidential primaries is much less common than you believed.

I thought that the "Blue Dog Democrat" label was thrown around quite a bit by all involved against Leiberman.

While Blue Dog Democrats self-describe themselves as moderates, the criticism generally leveled against them by other Democratic candidates is not that they are moderates; it's that they are conservatives.

If you think you can find an example where a Democratic candidate for president, in criticizing a Blue Dog Democrat, criticized them because they were a moderate, please do so. It's possible, but I think it's rather unlikely; most of the successful Democratic candidates for president have been the ones who cast themselves as moderate, so using the term moderate as a slur during the primaries would not be a winning strategy.

I'm not a GOP or a DEM. I frankly don't think that when it gets down to the actual governing, that there's a whole lot of difference betwixt the two.

Ah! Yes, you're right, that could explain your error. If you don't follow politics very closely, and think both parties are basically alike, I can see how you might easily assume without actual knowledge or evidence that any rhetoric a Republican candidate has used must have been used by Democratic candidates as well.

Not to mention that in this age of 24 hr news and the internet Lincoln would be called "the worst president ever" in about 6 weeks after taking office.

Yes, especially now that there are so many places where random anonymous people can post comments. But that's not what we're talking about. The example Bikewer provided in the OP was of a presidential candidate publicly attacking another presidential candidate for being a moderate. My impression is that's a fairly rare occurrence. Your post made it sound as if it's a common occurrence. I'm still waiting for examples.

 

[BravesFan]

I used to pay attention quite a bit. But as I've gotten older i frankly just don't care anymore.....

I'm actually trying to find anything to cite. But getting the wording right on google can be a pain sometimes. I will see what I can dig up and report back.

 

[BravesFan]

I decided the best way to try and see if there was anything was to try and find attack ads on you tube. the problem is that most of them are fan made and it doesn't specify which ones were official or not (meaning that it could take a loooong time to dig through it all.

Not to mention that the alternative is to watch a bunch of primary debates. Which frankly makes my stomach hurt! lol

So, unless someone is hyper motivated to look. I don't think this can be resolved either way with certainty.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm warming a bit to Romney. He's alright when he doesn't go off on one about the US being the hope of the Earth and other patriotic rubbish.

 

[Nova Land]

I'm actually trying to find anything to cite. But getting the wording right on google can be a pain sometimes.

I agree this is not necessarily going to be easy to find even if you are right and such examples did occur. I tried doing a search, using my best guesses as to who would be likely to have made such a comment (Jerry Brown about Clinton; Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich about Lieberman) and came up blank. But that doesn't mean they didn't say something like that; it mainly says that I couldn't figure out adequate search terms to zero in on something which might not have gotten much attention at the time.

Take your time searching. There is no rush. I am not going to make taunting comments about have you found it yet? If you ever do find such comments, I will be very interested to see them; but if you don't it's not a big deal. It simply means that, until you find them, I'll regard the claim (that both Democratic and Republican presidential candidates routinely denounce their opponents during the primaries as moderates) as unproven and likely false.