Windows Infinity

[Dancing David]

I have heard it is to make for a crossover OS with mobile devices that can all synch to a desktop.

 

[mikeyx]

I understand it comes with a helper AI called, "Durandal."

Download ISO

What's the difference between these two links?

And has anyone tried it?

winders sucks. how dare you.

 

[Wowbagger]

Start menu? Just press the Windows keys.

Not good enough. An interface that truly cares about being intuitive would ALSO have a Start Button.

I don't mind the full screen tiles in place of the Start Menu so much. Other than it looks a little ugly.

I really wonder how many people who rant about windows 8 have ever actually used it for more than a few seconds.

I have used it for quite a bit. Yes, you can get used to it. But, a lot of these changes are worse for you than what was there before, when used on the Desktop. (For a tablet it works better, I think) They are NOT improvements. They are NOT innovations. They detract from interface principles that were hard won to learn in an earlier era.

To be honest, I don't see why Microsoft need to release a new OS at all. W7 is fairly recent and it doesn't have any major downfalls that could hold it back. They should hold off for a couple of years, atleast until the hype around tablet PCs dies down a bit.

Trying to compete with Apple (which might be part of the reason for the new OS) is a silly idea, they already have the vast vast majority of the market and they risk alienating their current customers by releasing a half arsed port of a tablet OS to PC.

The desktop PC is about to become a dinosaur for most of its historic purposes. If Microsoft doesn't start doing something NOW contribute to the newer generations of machines, they are going to be left behind. That is the problem.

Tablet PCs are NOT going to "die down a bit". They are our future.

 

[Soapy Sam]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/software/3374039/installing-linux-on-windows-8-pcs-no-easy-answers/

If this article is right, Microsoft's version of the UEFI BIOS-replacement will make installing any other OS on a Win 8 machine problematical and aLL but impossible on ARM hardware.


This article - http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/3377147/how-uninstall-windows-8/ shows how to uninstall 8 and revert to 7.

I do not own a smartphone or a tablet and have no current desire for either. I don't like touchscreens, so see no advantage in a screen driven system.
8 is beginning to feel strangely like Vista revisited.

 

[icerat]

To be honest, I don't see why Microsoft need to release a new OS at all. W7 is fairly recent and it doesn't have any major downfalls that could hold it back. They should hold off for a couple of years, atleast until the hype around tablet PCs dies down a bit.

They need a tablet OS phone. What windows 8 does is unify phone, tablet, and PC operating systems. The interface is also now on Xbox, so they've got it everywhere.

Trying to compete with Apple (which might be part of the reason for the new OS) is a silly idea, they already have the vast vast majority of the market and they risk alienating their current customers by releasing a half arsed port of a tablet OS to PC.

Dvorak said much they same thing about Apple introducing a phone.

Not good enough. An interface that truly cares about being intuitive would ALSO have a Start Button.

Definition of intuitive? "Whatever you're used to."

I do think they made a mistake not having an option for the start button, if only for marketing reasons. Personally I hardly used it in Windows 7. All my regular software was pinned to the task bar (which I also do in Windows 8)

I don't mind the full screen tiles in place of the Start Menu so much. Other than it looks a little ugly.

I like it. Feels like I'm finally in the future. Now for a touch screen monitor!

I have used it for quite a bit. Yes, you can get used to it. But, a lot of these changes are worse for you than what was there before, when used on the Desktop. (For a tablet it works better, I think) They are NOT improvements. They are NOT innovations. They detract from interface principles that were hard won to learn in an earlier era.

Such as? Apart from the start button and being able to have different toolbars on different screens (which is optional) my desktop is pretty much indistinguishable from Windows 7.

 

[jeremyp]

They need a tablet OS phone. What windows 8 does is unify phone, tablet, and PC operating systems. The interface is also now on Xbox, so they've got it everywhere.

This is the problem. A PC is not a tablet. An XBox is not a tablet. Each has its own input devices and display characteristics. It stands to reason that a PC user interface should be different to a tablet user interface.

The cynic in me says that Microsoft is doing this because they have a tablet operating system that has failed to make any headway in the tablet market place, they are leveraging their near monopoly on PC operating systems to build some market share in the tablet space.

Most people will probably hate the new interface on PCs but they won't have any choice about getting it because their new PC will be supplied with it installed. The alternatives either require expensive hardware (OS X) or some degree of technical knowledge (Linux), so they'll swallow the pill of Windows 8. Then when they come to buy their smartphone, it will be "oh look a familiar interface, I'll get the Windows phone", or at least that's what Microsoft hopes.

Or at least, that's what I think Microsoft hopes.

Hopefully, it won't work because the last thing we need is another software monoculture in the tablet/phone world.

 

[icerat]

This is the problem. A PC is not a tablet. An XBox is not a tablet. Each has its own input devices and display characteristics. It stands to reason that a PC user interface should be different to a tablet user interface.

And Windows 8 provides that.

The cynic in me says that Microsoft is doing this because they have a tablet operating system that has failed to make any headway in the tablet market place, they are leveraging their near monopoly on PC operating systems to build some market share in the tablet space.

I don't think they've ever really had a "tablet operating system" before. But I entirely agree they're using this to attempt to build market share in the tablet space.

I don't think any cynicism is needed to think that!

Most people will probably hate the new interface on PCs but they won't have any choice about getting it because their new PC will be supplied with it installed.

I haven't tried the RTM yet, but if they haven't got a good, understandable tutorial then yes, they'll have problems.

All it really needs is -

(1) want to work just like windows 7? Click desktop!
(2) "miss the start button? Just press the windows key!

I think they should also allow the ability to boot to desktop, that's a mistake as well, but really only a marketing one rather than a technical one per se.

The alternatives either require expensive hardware (OS X) or some degree of technical knowledge (Linux), so they'll swallow the pill of Windows 8. Then when they come to buy their smartphone, it will be "oh look a familiar interface, I'll get the Windows phone", or at least that's what Microsoft hopes.

Or at least, that's what I think Microsoft hopes.

Smart business if you ask me. I plan on getting a windows 8 phone as soon as they're released and tossing my android phone and Surface is exactly what I've been waiting for in a tablet. Price is the big question there of course.

 

[Wowbagger]

Definition of intuitive? "Whatever you're used to."

No. There are objective ways to measure how intuitive an interface is for users of a product. It's not merely a matter of "whatever you're used to".

When the Start button was originally added, nobody was "used to it". But, it helped make open applications much easier to manage. Taking it away is removing an element of intuitiveness from the system.

When the Ribbon was first deployed in Office 2007, there were howls from people afraid of the change. No one was "used to it". And, yet, most people now like it because it more intuitively grants access to more of the applications' features.

Windows 8 is not quite as intuitive to understand as any of that. Microsoft knows better. But, cooler heads ain't prevailing here.

Such as? Apart from the start button and being able to have different toolbars on different screens (which is optional) my desktop is pretty much indistinguishable from Windows 7.

1. I don't know where they're sticking the shutdown options in the final version. But, the idea of sticking them under a System Settings screen, under the Charms bar, had me scratching my head.

2. Basic window management on the Metro side, such as opening more than one, and moving them around, is a puzzling adventure.

3. BY DEFAULT ALL TOP LEVEL MENUS ARE NOW GOING TO BE IN ALL CAPS. YOUR MENU WILL CONSTANTLY BE YELLING AT YOU, FOR NO REASON, UNTIL YOU TURN THAT OFF.

4. Working with Internet Explorer's options and tools is far easier on the Desketop than in "Metro". In fact, it's easier to use the browser that comes with the Android operating system, than it is to use IE in Metro.

Etc.

 

[icerat]

No. There are objective ways to measure how intuitive an interface is for users of a product. It's not merely a matter of "whatever you're used to".

It was actually an old quote I read somewhere once. I think it sums it up nicely.

When the Start button was originally added, nobody was "used to it". But, it helped make open applications much easier to manage. Taking it away is removing an element of intuitiveness from the system.

I disagree it was intuitive. I've dealt with a lot of people using W7 who basically can't do anything if it's not an icon on the desktop.

When the Ribbon was first deployed in Office 2007, there were howls from people afraid of the change. No one was "used to it". And, yet, most people now like it because it more intuitively grants access to more of the applications' features.

I'm not one of those most. I often can't find things I want with the damn Ribbon.

1. I don't know where they're sticking the shutdown options in the final version. But, the idea of sticking them under a System Settings screen, under the Charms bar, had me scratching my head.

I agree with that criticism. Especially since I'm running dual screens with my second screen on the right. This means I don't actually have a bottom right "corner" where the mouse can easily be trapped to pull up the charms bar. Pain in the a** trying to get it in the right spot. I keep meaning to learn the shortcut key.

I recall reading that may have been improved in RTM

2. Basic window management on the Metro side, such as opening more than one, and moving them around, is a puzzling adventure.

In a beta with no instructions, yes. Didn't take long to work out, especially since on my W7 setups I always moved the taskbar to the side of the screen, hidden anyway!

3. BY DEFAULT ALL TOP LEVEL MENUS ARE NOW GOING TO BE IN ALL CAPS. YOUR MENU WILL CONSTANTLY BE YELLING AT YOU, FOR NO REASON, UNTIL YOU TURN THAT OFF.

I'm not sure what you're talking about there? Top level menus in apps? I just checked all I'm running right now (chrome, evernote, adobe reader, notepadd++, Navcat,Calc, word 2013, ppt 2013, Tor, Vidalia, Skype, Itunes ... and not a single one has ALL CAPS top level menus.

4. Working with Internet Explorer's options and tools is far easier on the Desketop than in "Metro". In fact, it's easier to use the browser that comes with the Android operating system, than it is to use IE in Metro

I rarely use the metro apps. They're clearly there primarily for touch screens, not desktop operations, and I don't yet have a touch screen. Those I have tried were clearly still in developmental stage so I expected them to have some issues, and they did.

Speaking of touch screens, I notice the price of them for desktops has come down remarkably. I'm unsure about their utility in a desktop environment though.

Anyone tried touch screens with a desktop setup?

 

[Mongrel]

Anyone tried touch screens with a desktop setup?

Kind of - played with a friends notebook setup as a desktop. Looks shiny but not that useful as you're either flapping between the screen and keyboard\mouse or getting getting sore forearms because it's really hard to make an ergonomic screen. Coupled with the standard touch screen problem of "I can't see under my finger" so delicate controls are out the window (probably more of a gamer thing), meh.

 

[BenBurch]

I have heard it is to make for a crossover OS with mobile devices that can all synch to a desktop.

Sort of like Apple has done?

 

[This is The End]

(2) "miss the start button? Just press the windows key!.

I haven't tried Win 8 yet, but a few of you have said that, so I am wondering: Is there a way to get that menu without a keyboard?

 

[icerat]

Kind of - played with a friends notebook setup as a desktop. Looks shiny but not that useful as you're either flapping between the screen and keyboard\mouse or getting getting sore forearms because it's really hard to make an ergonomic screen. Coupled with the standard touch screen problem of "I can't see under my finger" so delicate controls are out the window (probably more of a gamer thing), meh.

Yeah, I thought it might be like that

I haven't tried Win 8 yet, but a few of you have said that, so I am wondering: Is there a way to get that menu without a keyboard?

Just click where "start" used to be. Bottom left corner of the screen

 

[This is The End]

Just click where "start" used to be. Bottom left corner of the screen

Do you have to change something from default for that to work, or does it work like that from the moment you install?

 

[Dancing David]

Tablet PCs are NOT going to "die down a bit". They are our future.

Exactly, the desktop era will have peaked and faded. It will linger on in certain areas and applications, but the tablet/mobile interface will prevail.

Now corporations and other large institutions will maintain desktop culture for a longer period but eventually as laptop/tablet longevity increases and mobile access storage solutions increase the desktop will fade away to a small percentage of the market.

 

[Dancing David]

This is the problem. A PC is not a tablet. An XBox is not a tablet. Each has its own input devices and display characteristics. It stands to reason that a PC user interface should be different to a tablet user interface.

The cynic in me says that Microsoft is doing this because they have a tablet operating system that has failed to make any headway in the tablet market place, they are leveraging their near monopoly on PC operating systems to build some market share in the tablet space.

It is also in anticipation of the shift from desktop applications to tablet and mobile applications. The sales of the Kindle Fire and iPad are the indicators of where the future is going, especially for corporate systems. That is where MS tends to dominate and they will try to continue as this shift occurs over the next twenty years.

Now something a lot of people don't know is the a large percentage of corporations still use Windows XP. they want to get as much out of their investments as they can until the last minutes. The longevity and portability (ie stealing) or tablet and portable devices are a real issue for corporations, and then the security breaches that occur with portability are another issue.

these are issue that will be addressed as time goes by, but MS want to have a system that still allows for the lock down of desktop environments that synchs with laptops, tablets and mobiles.

 

[icerat]

Do you have to change something from default for that to work, or does it work like that from the moment you install?

default. You point the mouse there and a little square box pops up that even has "start" written at the top

 

[Alan]

Do you have to change something from default for that to work, or does it work like that from the moment you install?

Icerat is referring to the interface formerly known as Metro. Point the cursor to the bottom left and a thumbnail that looks like the Metro screen appears in the bottom left. Clicking on it takes you to the Metro screen. Pressing the Super key (the Windows key) also does that. As does moving the cursor to the bottom right (or Super + C) so the 'charms' appear, and then moving up to the middle one and clicking.

That is not what OnlyTellsTruths means by the start button or the start menu.

The main annoyance still present in the release preview on a PC is getting the charms to appear. And when having metro apps side to side, the narrow one can be unreadable with some applications (like Internet Explorer) or literally unusable (the Store).

 

[Dancing David]

Sort of like Apple has done?

Yes and no, there are reasons that Apple culture and the corporate environments don't mix very well as of yet. The leeway given to third party software has been a huge boon to MS, and also a huge source of security and stability issues.

Apple/Mac/iWhatever is great stuff, well designed, integrated and pre-screened for security and compatibility. This makes it really hard for third party developers to exist in the open market for Apple platforms, MS has allowed for a more wild west scenario where people can write whatever they want as long as they don't use the proprietary architecture.

So one system is great, especially in compatibility across the applications of the platform, it is tailored, controlled and quite sleek as a result. But that also limits the market for third party software as compared to the messy, designed on the fly gigantic kludge that nobody really controls.

 

[elgarak]

Icerat is referring to the interface formerly known as Metro. Point the cursor to the bottom left and a thumbnail that looks like the Metro screen appears in the bottom left. Clicking on it takes you to the Metro screen. Pressing the Super key (the Windows key) also does that. As does moving the cursor to the bottom right (or Super + C) so the 'charms' appear, and then moving up to the middle one and clicking.

That is not what OnlyTellsTruths means by the start button or the start menu.

The main annoyance still present in the release preview on a PC is getting the charms to appear. And when having metro apps side to side, the narrow one can be unreadable with some applications (like Internet Explorer) or literally unusable (the Store).

Re. the bolded part. In my preview version of Windows 8, clicking on the thumbnail of the Metro screen does not work. You have to click while the mouse cursor is still in the corner. In fact, one shouldn't move the mouse at all after the thumbnail has appeared.

That's one of the annoyances for me. Decades of training have taught me to click on an icon/thumbnail, and here comes MS and changes that. Try as I might, it requires a lot of willful effort to not move the mouse. It would take me a long time to (re)train myself to get to a point where I would control it naturally. This is but one example where Windows 8 breaks with former UI rules. Not that I intend or need to work with Windows 8.

Has this changed in the final version?