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Wikileaks

Bill all you are showing is that you believe anybody who is saying what you want to hear, and think anybody who isn't is lying. What else is new?
 
twinstead said:
Bill all you are showing is that you believe anybody who is saying what you want to hear, and think anybody who isn't is lying. What else is new?
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I don't understand your reasoning: doesn't that then apply to you if you claim they are lying?
 
Quiproquo said:
I don't understand your reasoning: doesn't that then apply to you if you claim they are lying?
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Doubtful. Most, if not all, accusations of lying made by "debunkers" have been backed up by evidence directly contradicting the statement made by the truther. The evidence may not have been presented at the time of the accusation, but only because it had been previously presented.
 
Some of the CT's must have had a tough decision to make at the end of playing Deus Ex...

I'd give it a spoiler warning but it's a 12 year old video game.

 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
If Putin is accusing Wikileaks of being an American psyop, then that just proves it is actually a Russian psyop. Why would he be blaming anyone else if not to deflect attention from the truth? :tinfoil
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What I found interesting about the Afghan War Diary and the Iraqi war logs is a number of media stories that I had found questionable in the past and worth checking up on simply weren't represented in these large files at all. I doubt the media reports were complete fiction suggesting that both document collections may have been manipulated somewhat before release.

Similarly for the State Department files, off the top of my head the following would be fascinating.

- Lead up to Iraq war and UN Security vote (if the collection goes back that far)
- Lead up and aftermath of the georgian war
- lead up and aftermath of the destablisation effort after the Iranian election
- Lead up and progression and aftermath of the Lebanon war
- The Hairiri assassination and the Cedar revolution.
- Anything to do with Israel at all.
- Gaza and Egypt

I wouldn't expect the cables to be full of machiavillian scheming around these events, but I would have thought something of interest.

As it is mostly we are getting trivia and nothing on Israel at all - perhaps it is coming? But I won't hold my breath

:D
 
little grey rabbit said:
What I found interesting about the Afghan War Diary and the Iraqi war logs is a number of media stories that I had found questionable in the past and worth checking up on simply weren't represented in these large files at all. I doubt the media reports were complete fiction suggesting that both document collections may have been manipulated somewhat before release.

Similarly for the State Department files, off the top of my head the following would be fascinating.
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The Wikileaks papers are, IIRC , diplomatic cables , not State Department reports.

- Lead up to Iraq war and UN Security vote (if the collection goes back that far)
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They begin in 2005 IIRC, so its not likely.

- Lead up and aftermath of the georgian war
- lead up and aftermath of the destablisation effort after the Iranian election
- Lead up and progression and aftermath of the Lebanon war
- The Hairiri assassination and the Cedar revolution.
- Anything to do with Israel at all.
- Gaza and Egypt
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All included I do believe. However, Wikileaks itself is censoring any docuements or parts of them that they determine could endanger lives directly.

I wouldn't expect the cables to be full of machiavillian scheming around these events, but I would have thought something of interest.
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No it would not include such things as schemeing, it is diplomates corressponding.
You don't find it 'interesting' that Saudi Arabia wanted Iran to be attacked?

As it is mostly we are getting trivia and nothing on Israel at all - perhaps it is coming? But I won't hold my breath

:D
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Nothing??? You need to research a bit more. You are simply wrong.
ONE example
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...ks-reveals-depth-of-Israel-s-rift-with-Turkey
 
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CHF said:
Granted, most of the info I've hear about from Wikileaks isn't really news (the Saudis support Al Qaeda??? No way!) but it is amazing that hundreds of thousands of secret US cables are now being released.

Strangely, there's still nothing about 9/11 being an inside job. No informants, no guilt-stricken conspirators, no whistleblowers...NOTHING.

Any truthers care to speculate why?
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I've heard that the reason why is because Wikileaks is actually an evil disinfo site controlled by the government.
 
jaydeehess said:
point taken.

Perhaps LGR could confirm that?

LGR??
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I would expect the State Department to at least express some frustrations at certain points with Israel. The Gaza and Lebanon conflicts were two of the major conflicts in recent times - reading diplomatic cables would be highly instructive.

I also would be interested given that most people agree that Georgia initiated hostilities against Russia what the cables say in the lead up to that. The same with the Cedar revolution and the destablisation of Iran.

Basically we are being given trivial stories about North Korea. The stories about Arab leaders urging an attack on Iran, if true, with prove devastating for their attempts to maintain popular legitimacy - as it doesn't represent popular or elite opinion there, only the private interests of dynasties orginally set up by the British. Was that the intent? Or was it just trying to bolster Israel's agenda in the region.
 
little grey rabbit said:
I would expect the State Department to at least express some frustrations at certain points with Israel. The Gaza and Lebanon conflicts were two of the major conflicts in recent times - reading diplomatic cables would be highly instructive.

I also would be interested given that most people agree that Georgia initiated hostilities against Russia what the cables say in the lead up to that. The same with the Cedar revolution and the destablisation of Iran.

Basically we are being given trivial stories about North Korea. The stories about Arab leaders urging an attack on Iran, if true, with prove devastating for their attempts to maintain popular legitimacy - as it doesn't represent popular or elite opinion there, only the private interests of dynasties orginally set up by the British. Was that the intent? Or was it just trying to bolster Israel's agenda in the region.
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Hmmm. LGR is dubious. Well call out the National Guard. Sorry if I tend to discount your powers of analyzation; ideologues make the most AWFUL investigators.
 
Zelikow?

Not that I think jref debunkers have the stomach to follow through on these implications but here goes:

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding

And wasn't it Zelikow who

during the 9/11 Commission, refused "to Approve Half of Interview Requests for ‘Saudi Connection’ Investigators." He blocked "access to key Document by ‘Saudi Connection’ Investigators." He fired a "'Saudi Connection’ Investigator from 9/11 Commission in Dispute over 28 Redacted Pages from Congressional Inquiry." He deleted "passages about apparent Saudi Support for Hijackers from Main Text of Final Report."
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Credit to Jon Gold for referencing these assertions here
 
maybe the "9-11 was an inside job" is being reserved for the poison pill that is threatened to be released if Wikileaks is brought down, huh red?.
 
RedIbis said:
Not that I think jref debunkers have the stomach to follow through on these implications but here goes:

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/05/wikileaks-cables-saudi-terrorist-funding

And wasn't it Zelikow who




Credit to Jon Gold for referencing these assertions here
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Er, what is the claim?

Is it that the wikileaks site has released nothing contrary to the US Govt's claims, and so is probably a stooge (and hence the govt is evil)?

Or is it that the wikileaks site has released information contrary to the US Govt's claims (and hence the govt is evil)?

For my personal opinion: the US govt. has probably downplayed the relations between (elements of) the Saudi govt. (and people) and al Qeada, because they believed it was in the US interest to do so. State dept. folk do not tend to be any more evil than the general populace, and they may well be a little bit less publicly honest. It is not surprising, therefore, to find that their private communications conflict with their public pronouncements.
 
twinstead said:
maybe the "9-11 was an inside job" is being reserved for the poison pill that is threatened to be released if Wikileaks is brought down, huh red?.
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I have no idea. Do you think Zelikow should be indicted for obstruction of justice considering these revelations? If not, why not?
 
Can I just hazard a guess that the very moment anything remotely supportive of 9/11 conspiracy theories is released all the people here who have been accussing Assange of being a Government stooge will suddenly come to the realisation that he is a great fighter for truth and justice and not at all a Governmemt stooge? Is that a fair guess? Just wondering?
 
All this Assange stuff shows me is that people are going to think what they will think no matter what. He's going to be considered a government stooge by anybody who believes something that Assange didn't release
 
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