Why there are likely less than a million actual Trump supporters in the US.

[JoeMorgue]

Because real life isn't South Park if you think choosing between Trump and Biden is "turd sandwich and giant douche" you're beyond hope.

That goddamn stupid episode of South Park set political discourse back a hundred goddamn years by making "I'm going to pretend evil and imperfect are the same thing" into a ******* meme.

This is not World War 2 having to side with either Hitler or Stalin.

 

[theprestige]

It seems to depend on how you define “Trump supporter”.

If it’s a MAGAT, you might be right about the million figure.

If it’s a Never-Democrat, you’re a long way off.

And there are other ways to define it.

Yeah, I think Mr Fliop's methodology is flawed. Don't look at how many people voted for the party's nominee. Look at how many people voted to nominate Trump.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Then how did he win the primary? He was the prefered choice of the majority of republicans.

I disagree. Trump was the preferred choice in the first few primaries, where there were actually several people running. But people started withdrawing after just the first couple of primaries, and in many states they weren't even on the ballot.

The first primary was mid January, with 6 people on the ballot. The AZ primary was two months later... and while all 6 of those people were still *listed* on the ballot... all but two had already withdrawn from the race. They started dropping out within the first couple of weeks.

So all of the later primaries end up with a choice between just Trump and Haley, or in some cases just Trump because everyone else had already announced that they were no longer running.

Trump ends up the nominee by default, and around 90% of the country never got to voice their opinion on it.

For the Republicans, Iowa alone got to make the first decision, and three contenders dropped out after a *single* primary in a *single* state. Only 4 other states got a shot at Binkley, and less than half of the states had Haley as an option. For over half of the states, the ONLY option available was Trump, regardless of whether the citizens in those states wanted them or not.

The Democratic primaries weren't much better - there were fewer contenders to begin with, and really only two other than Biden on the early ballots. By mid March, everyone had withdrawn except Biden, and many states didn't have any other options available. At least Williamson and Palmer have stuck it out longer than the other potential Republicans did.

Despite every other Republican having dropped out by March, Trump only had about 75% of the vote at the end of April. At that same time point, Biden had 86% support.

I find the process infuriating. I think that all primaries should be open, and I think they should all happen on the same day, or at least within the same week. As it stands, we end up with the decision on who gets to run being made by a minority of people in a minority of states, and most of the rest of the country just gets screwed over.

 

[theprestige]

Dang, looks like my methodology is flawed, too.

But counterpoint: It is widely believed by reasonable people that literally half the country are psychotic crypto-Nazis who sieg heil for Trump in their sleep.

So Mr Fliop's estimate is probably way low.

 

[mumblethrax]

American elections are useless for sussing out genuine preferences, because they encourage tactical voting at every level (and then further monkey wrench the results). Favorability ratings are more useful, but are fundamentally answering a different question. At the end of the day Trump got the second most votes in 2016, and naturally that means he won. In 2020 he got even more second place, but he didn't win. And you're telling me this thing isn't rigged?!?

An SNL bit from approximately six billion years ago that seems relevant to this thread:

 

[Emily's Cat]

Because real life isn't South Park if you think choosing between Trump and Biden is "turd sandwich and giant douche" you're beyond hope.

In other words, if I don't think your guy is great, and the other guy is evil incarnate, I'm a horrible person who is irredeemably stupid? Nah, nothing at all hyperpartisan about that.

When we get to a point as a society where we're not even allowed to think that both of the options we're being force-fed suck without being attacked and insulted, we've got problems.

 

[The_Animus]

This seems to be a distinction without a difference.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I'm not following you Animus, can you elaborate?

 

[The_Animus]

I'm not following you Animus, can you elaborate?

Sorry my comment was in reference to the OP, not you. I just didn't want to quote the OP block of text and forgot my comment could be misconstrued as pertaining to the post before mine.

 

[acbytesla]

Don't you know? Trump has a billion supporters. Everyone loves him. The crowds are incredible. His Wildwood NewJersey crowd is larger than Bruce Springsteen events.

Trump and his sycophants including Donald's son Eric claimed there was 100,000 people there.
FYI: There was at most 6,500. And it was free. Bruce recently sold out three Met Life concerts in September where 150,000 people spent a minimum of $125 per ticket. Thousands of people spent a lot more.

 

[theprestige]

Trumpophobes: "Trump's claims of popular support are the ludicrous exaggerations of a no-talent ass-clown!"

Also Trumpophobes: "Literally half the country is preparing to massacre us all in the name of their god-emperor!"

 

[JoeMorgue]

In other words, if I don't think your guy is great, and the other guy is evil incarnate, I'm a horrible person who is irredeemably stupid? Nah, nothing at all hyperpartisan about that.

When we get to a point as a society where we're not even allowed to think that both of the options we're being force-fed suck without being attacked and insulted, we've got problems.

.... I hate this ******* timeline.

You just did EXACTLY what I said. You make no distinction between "One is obviously better" and "hyperpartisan."

One staged a coup and brags about committing sexual assault. The other is just something of a goober. Who the better choice is is exactly zero percent complicated and you are now going to prove how honest of an agent you are by going "Oh so you're saying one is perfect and other is totally evil."

 

[ahhell]

There is the thing where just the fact that we are talking about politics on the internet means we pay far more attention to politics than the vast majority of people. The majority of voters will pay attention to the presidential race for a week or two before they vote.

Then there is that I have a choice between a **** candidate and an evil candidate, I'll vote for the **** candidate. That's where most people are, they aren't voting for Trump because they think he's awesome, they are voting for trump because they think he's marginally better than Biden or even more likely because he's got the right letter by his name. Same goes for Biden Voters, most folks think he's marginally better than Trump or because he's got the right letter by his name.

 

[Trausti]

There is the thing where just the fact that we are talking about politics on the internet means we pay far more attention to politics than the vast majority of people. The majority of voters will pay attention to the presidential race for a week or two before they vote.

Then there is that I have a choice between a **** candidate and an evil candidate, I'll vote for the **** candidate. That's where most people are, they aren't voting for Trump because they think he's awesome, they are voting for trump because they think he's marginally better than Biden or even more likely because he's got the right letter by his name. Same goes for Biden Voters, most folks think he's marginally better than Trump or because he's got the right letter by his name.

Or maybe people don't really care about the man? If voting for one means I pay higher taxes and voting the other I pay less taxes, mean Tweets just aren't going to factor into my decision.

 

[junkshop]

Vote for Trump? Trump supporter.

Donate to Trump? Trump supporter.

Excuse Trump? Trump supporter.

All the rest is just hot air.

 

[acbytesla]

There is the thing where just the fact that we are talking about politics on the internet means we pay far more attention to politics than the vast majority of people. The majority of voters will pay attention to the presidential race for a week or two before they vote.

Then there is that I have a choice between a **** candidate and an evil candidate, I'll vote for the **** candidate. That's where most people are, they aren't voting for Trump because they think he's awesome, they are voting for trump because they think he's marginally better than Biden or even more likely because he's got the right letter by his name. Same goes for Biden Voters, most folks think he's marginally better than Trump or because he's got the right letter by his name.

Biden is not marginally better. The dog poop I scrape off my shoe is marginally better than Donald Trump. Biden is light years better than Trump. Trump is dangerous.

I would prefer a younger more vibrant candidate than Biden. Biden looks old and sounds old. Because he is old. But he has been an excellent President. And Trump was a terrible President.

But Biden could still lose.

Because of inflation's toll on at least how people view the times if not on more than that. It may not matter that the US is on the whole is doing substantially better than the rest of the world's economies.

It may not matter that the world's largest energy exporter is at war militarily with its neighbor and economically with Europe.

It may not matter that Biden isn't the cause that they are paying more at the pump and interest rates are high.

Hitler took office during the Great Depression. He was a racist xenophobe. But the public still voted for him. They just wanted a better economic situation.

Sadly, most people don't understand Post Hoc Propter Hoc. That correlation isn't causation. This is why Germany and the world got Hitler and the US got FDR IN 1933.

I think Biden has done an excellent job given the political and economic circumstances he has faced. I also think while he certainly isn't anywhere near perfect. He's still a genuinely good man. Whereas Trump was a terrible President at maybe a better time and better circumstances. But Trump is a horrendous human being who should be behind bars.

 

[theprestige]

Vote for Trump? Trump supporter.

Donate to Trump? Trump supporter.

Excuse Trump? Trump supporter.

All the rest is just hot air.

Fair enough, as long as your definition of "Trump supporter" is merely someone who voted for Trump.

If your definition is "sociopathic crypto-nazi" then simply voting for the party nominee is not a good proxy.

 

[junkshop]

Vote for Trump? Trump supporter.

Donate to Trump? Trump supporter.

Excuse Trump? Trump supporter.

All the rest is just hot air.

Fair enough, as long as your definition of "Trump supporter" is merely someone who voted for Trump....

I think it's pretty clear from my post (the one that you quoted) that my definition of 'Trump supporter' is not restricted to those that vote for Trump.

If your definition is "sociopathic crypto-nazi" then simply voting for the party nominee is not a good proxy.

Well, I gave you my definition, and this wasn't it. If my definition had been "tall people wearing short shorts" then a conclusion could be drawn. Neither of these imaginary things were my definition, however.


ETA: I am now in earworm hell.

 

[theprestige]

I think it's pretty clear from my post (the one that you quoted) that my definition of 'Trump supporter' is not restricted to those that vote for Trump.




Well, I gave you my definition, and this wasn't it. If my definition had been "tall people wearing short shorts" then a conclusion could be drawn. Neither of these imaginary things were my definition, however.


ETA: I am now in earworm hell.

Donate to the campaign of the party nominee, excuse the party nominee... I'm pretty sure my point still stands.

Just like I'm pretty sure there are tons of democrats making excuses for Biden, who fervently wish there were anyone other than Biden they could support in this contest.

 

[junkshop]

Donate to the campaign of the party nominee, excuse the party nominee... I'm pretty sure my point still stands...

I'm not sure what your point was, but this seems to contradict your previous post.

...Just like I'm pretty sure there are tons of democrats making excuses for Biden, who fervently wish there were anyone other than Biden they could support in this contest.

Quite possibly. Doesn't really have much to do with my post, or your imaginative reading of it though, does it?


Also, I'm holding you responsible for the awful song that's stuck in my head.