Merged why the release of names associated with Epstein mean little to absolutely nothing.

[dirtywick]

kash patel desperately avoiding answering any questions at the latest hearing doesn’t inspire any confidence that there’s nothing to see here

 

[Thermal]

His definitive "dude, if I found something I would have totally already said so" really sealed the deal for me.

 

[Venom]

He was in prison under federal indictment for sex trafficking at the time of his death and his close associate was convicted of sex trafficking for him.

He was a sex trafficker.

That's one of the problems with the term "sex trafficking". You don't even need clients to sell sex to. [feds definition]

• Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age. (22 U.S.C. § 7102(11)(A)).

If, as the available evidence in his Palm Beach case shows, Epstein arranged for teen girls to come to his property, give him sexualized massages, and he paid them, utilizing a group of his employees to run the scheme, that'd be enough for a lot of prosecutors to consider it trafficking.

So there is this equivocation people do, probably unwittingly, when they say Epstein was a "sex trafficker", a pretty broad legal term that in the public's mind usually evokes the scenario of a pimp at the head of a prostitution network.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The level of obstruction by Republicans, blocking any attempts to subpoena the records of suspicious transactions from Banks or government agencies strong suggest that there is a big fire at the bottom of the column of smoke.

At this point, I see a direct connection between Trump's "Modelling Agency" to bring in girls from overseas and Epstein hooking them up to wealthy and powerful individuals for fun, profit and influence. A pattern of money paid by Epstein to women brought in by Trump would be the smoking guns with fingerprints, DNA and blood splatter patterns.

 

[johnny karate]

That's one of the problems with the term "sex trafficking". You don't even need clients to sell sex to. [feds definition]


If, as the available evidence in his Palm Beach case shows, Epstein arranged for teen girls to come to his property, give him sexualized massages, and he paid them, utilizing a group of his employees to run the scheme, that'd be enough for a lot of prosecutors to consider it trafficking.

So there is this equivocation people do, probably unwittingly, when they say Epstein was a "sex trafficker", a pretty broad legal term that in the public's mind usually evokes the scenario of a pimp at the head of a prostitution network.

He hosted and attended parties for powerful men - like his close friend Donald Trump for instance - with young girls in attendance.

I feel very comfortable asserting that he was a sex trafficker in the commonly understood sense.

 

[dirtywick]

no doubt he was getting high on his own supply

 

[Venom]

He hosted and attended parties for powerful men - like his close friend Donald Trump for instance - with young girls in attendance.

I feel very comfortable asserting that he was a sex trafficker in the commonly understood sense.

Give me an example of these "parties".

Most of the time it's reported to be a bunch of prominent men having a chat, with Epstein's young female employees in the background or serving food and drinks.

I think what most people assume is Epstein was discreetly passing around his Palm Beach high school girls to these men. No evidence of this at all.

 

[d4m10n]

a pretty broad legal term that in the public's mind usually evokes the scenario of a pimp at the head of a prostitution network.

We do have a perp who fits this description in the person of Ms. Maxwell, who really did build out a network for the sake of servicing Epstein.

 

[dirtywick]

then why was she given leniency? epstein is dead, maxwell behind bars and somehow none of the people assisting them seem to matter as if these women were pulled from thin air? or maxwell found them on her own with no assistance maybe?

but they go talk to her, she knows nothing and was innocent so there was simply no one else involved in any way.

and trump and the gop are desperately trying to stop the documents and files that would exonerate everyone and clear this all up, that’s a little weird isn’t it?

 

[johnny karate]

Give me an example of these "parties".

Sure, here you go:

Most of the time it's reported to be a bunch of prominent men having a chat, with Epstein's young female employees in the background or serving food and drinks.

I think what most people assume is Epstein was discreetly passing around his Palm Beach high school girls to these men. No evidence of this at all.

I’m not trying prosecute Epstein in a court of law. I’m drawing a reasonable conclusion based on available evidence.

If you feel you need to revoke my Skeptic’s Club Membership as a result, I’m willing to take that risk.

I find that to be a more palatable option than looking for ways to give a pedophile and sex trafficker the benefit of the doubt.

 

[dann]

then why was she given leniency? epstein is dead, maxwell behind bars and somehow none of the people assisting them seem to matter as if these women were pulled from thin air? or maxwell found them on her own with no assistance maybe?

but they go talk to her, she knows nothing and was innocent so there was simply no one else involved in any way.

and trump and the gop are desperately trying to stop the documents and files that would exonerate everyone and clear this all up, that’s a little weird isn’t it?

No, it's not weird at all.
Remember that the Democrats went back in time to create those documents that make it seem as if Trump and Epstein were buddies and shared secrets and as if Ghislane Maxwell was their trafficker/groomer.
And all these women are obviously crisis actors paid by George Soros.
You just have to connect the dots for it all to make sense.
Free Ghislaine Maxwell! She was framed by the same Democrats who are now trying to get back at Trump.

 

[Venom]

We do have a perp who fits this description in the person of Ms. Maxwell, who really did build out a network for the sake of servicing Epstein.

Now Maxwell I think she could have been a co-conspirator, but I still find it suspicious that she wasn't mentioned by any of the young women in Palm Beach at the time. It's almost like she didn't exist until the government needed someone to go after after all that work put into prosecuting Epstein was about to go to waste.

then why was she given leniency? epstein is dead, maxwell behind bars and somehow none of the people assisting them seem to matter as if these women were pulled from thin air? or maxwell found them on her own with no assistance maybe?

but they go talk to her, she knows nothing and was innocent so there was simply no one else involved in any way.

and trump and the gop are desperately trying to stop the documents and files that would exonerate everyone and clear this all up, that’s a little weird isn’t it?

Epstein's non-prosecution agreement lists four people who allegedly helped Epstein procure young women. Maxwell isn't listed, but presumably she is an unnamed co-conspirator, at least that's the argument that her lawyers used to defend her. And that's what her appeals are based on. [NPA, page 5]

Now the federal NPA in retrospect does look suspiciously lenient. Conspiracy theorists assume it was included in the plea deal to protect prominent buddies of Epstein, but far more likely is prosecutors agreed Epstein was the big fish and some of his co-conspirators were victims as well as perpetrators, such as Haley Robson and Virginia Giuffre, so they decided it wasn't worth prosecuting them. I don't know whether legally it was a good idea or not, the 2020 DOJ Report seems to think Alexander Acosta fumbled the investigation but wasn't the worst thing in the world given the circumstances. So technically when the federal government went after Maxwell, they could have gone after any of the women who were protected under the NPA.

 

[dirtywick]

i think you’re too charitable to some of the most naked opportunists to have ever walked the planet. these guys regularly abuse the legal system to enrich and perfect themselves whenever it suits them, and their grinch hearts grew 3 times after a brief conversation with her? that’s not for me dog

plus if you read the recent email dump from epstein’s yahoo it’s clear maxwell was well aware and actively helping epstein

 

[Venom]

Sure, here you go:

Nothing illegal and I'd say nothing particularly problematic about that.

I’m not trying prosecute Epstein in a court of law. I’m drawing a reasonable conclusion based on available evidence.

If you feel you need to revoke my Skeptic’s Club Membership as a result, I’m willing to take that risk.

I find that to be a more palatable option than looking for ways to give a pedophile and sex trafficker the benefit of the doubt.

You are making logical leaps from Epstein kept young employees around to Virginia Giuffre's QAnonesque claims about child sex orgies involving prominent people.

Why should Giuffre's claims be given the benefit of the doubt given her history of false and unlikely claims?

I frankly don't care about what's more palatable to this sex-paranoid culture. People throw around "pedophile" and "trafficker" at any situation that appears slightly problematic.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

A strong data point of paedophilia is the fact that this DOJ is trying to cover it up.
No one has yet given a credible reason why the administration can't release their information and subpoena more.
If there is nothing there, then there is less harm in looking than in stonewalling

 

[Venom]

i think you’re too charitable to some of the most naked opportunists to have ever walked the planet. these guys regularly abuse the legal system to enrich and perfect themselves whenever it suits them, and their grinch hearts grew 3 times after a brief conversation with her? that’s not for me dog

plus if you read the recent email dump from epstein’s yahoo it’s clear maxwell was well aware and actively helping epstein

Oh I don't doubt that people in the Trump admin are trying to protect something about his relationship with Epstein, but what exactly? Association? Collaboration? There are actually very few accusations against Trump himself from Epstein victims, and those aren't very reliable. Brad Edwards seems like a secret Trumper, praising him on a few occasions. I think Trausti posted a video of one. He would know if Trump was guilty of something.

 

[d4m10n]

A strong data point of paedophilia is the fact that this DOJ is trying to cover it up.

Even if every young woman involved was 18-23 they'd have ample motive to cover this up, assuming only that Epstein was trafficking them to government officials in DOJ's orbit or chain of command.

 

[dirtywick]

Oh I don't doubt that people in the Trump admin are trying to protect something about his relationship with Epstein, but what exactly? Association? Collaboration? There are actually very few accusations against Trump himself from Epstein victims, and those aren't very reliable. Brad Edwards seems like a secret Trumper, praising him on a few occasions. I think Trausti posted a video of one. He would know if Trump was guilty of something.

certainly what and who they are protecting can go beyond trump specifically. but whatever it is, i don’t think you can make the case that epstein was basically acting alone. because there were clearly others involved in the operation in some capacity, even if we don’t know who and to what extent.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

I'm sure Republicans wouldn't have promoted the adrenochrome stories if there wasn't a kernel of truth - I will assume Trump sacrificed babies to stay healthy (it certainly wasn't his exercise regime or healthy eating) until the Epstein case is transparently investigated

 

[dirtywick]

Even if every young woman involved was 18-23 they'd have ample motive to cover this up, assuming only that Epstein was trafficking them to government officials in DOJ's orbit or chain of command.

i agree and i’d add that however you want to characterize things, there’s no denial that some of the victims were underage, whether it was only a handful and not his primary molestation demographic or many.

i think i read somewhere it was described as mostly women of age, like alright. so it was only once in a while a pedophile ring and the rest were sex trafficked eastern european young women, ok.