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When morons breed...

What if this couple had been meat eaters that fed their child soy milk instead of more conventional food? Would they have still been felons or just idiots?

Is the animus present in this thread entirely derived from the tragic death of this innocent child, or is their a general sentiment against vegans involved?

Obviously these idiots were at best completely incompetent parents, but it is neither illegal nor unethical to be vegan.
 
DoubtingStephen said:
What if this couple had been meat eaters that fed their child soy milk instead of more conventional food? Would they have still been felons or just idiots?

Is the animus present in this thread entirely derived from the tragic death of this innocent child, or is their a general sentiment against vegans involved?

Obviously these idiots were at best completely incompetent parents, but it is neither illegal nor unethical to be vegan.
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Of course it boils down to the idiots thing. Having a child getting thinner and thinner and not doing anything about it has nothing to do with being vegan or not.

But I have no doubt there are certain sentiments against vegans inside some of us. Probably not because of the fact (being vegan) itself, but because some of us have encountered vegans in the past that also have been kinda woo. Theory of sets comes to mind.
 
wahrheit said:
But I have no doubt there are certain sentiments against vegans inside some of us. Probably not because of the fact (being vegan) itself, but because some of us have encountered vegans in the past that also have been kinda woo. Theory of sets comes to mind.
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Ah, well I think you've hit the nail on the head there. It does seem that there is an unfortunate loose association between being vegan and belief in woo woo crap like healing crystals, and vortexes centered in Sedona, AZ.

Still, it is possible to be vegan without all of the woo.
 
Ditto on the happy birthdays to Wunky!

DoubtingStephen, when I saw the link in your sig, between my bad eyesight and the font, I thought it said 'Athiest FaQ". I was a little surprised when I clicked on the link!
 
crackers said:
DoubtingStephen, when I saw the link in your sig, between my bad eyesight and the font, I thought it said 'Athiest FaQ". I was a little surprised when I clicked on the link!
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Ooops, yes, it does indeed look like Atheist Faq. I hope you have recovered by now :)
 
Trying to understand vegans.

So the baby was not breastfeeding because it would be consuming animal products? Is that how vegans see it?
 
Yes, I have recovered! However, I not only can't see very well, I can't spell very well either...I just noticed I misspelled "atheist"!
 
The child died not because the parents were vegans but because the parents were STUPID! STOOPID STOOPID STOOPID!

Millions of vegans raise perfectly healthy children all the time (although I suspect a percentage of these kids later suffer nutrition issues). So this particular incident was a sad exception, not the rule.

Stupidity is being bred out in this case - a very sad but necessary evolution.
 
Daylight said:
Trying to understand vegans.

So the baby was not breastfeeding because it would be consuming animal products? Is that how vegans see it?
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No, I've never known a vegan opposed to breast feeding. That would be exceedingly stupid, as breast milk is perfect for same-species spawn.
 
Daylight said:
Trying to understand vegans.

So the baby was not breastfeeding because it would be consuming animal products? Is that how vegans see it?
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Not at ALL! Not at ALL! Follow the link I posted to the Vegan Society advice for feeding infants - they, as all infant nutritionists do, recommended breast milk above all else. The mother not breast-feeding in this case has absolutely nothing to do with veganism at all.

In terms of veganism and woo - well, I'm vegan and I am because I haven't yet been given a rational reason not to be one. I can't speak for all vegans, but in my case it was scepticism and rationalism which lead me to veganism in the first place.
 
The couple was found guilty May 2 of malice murder, felony murder, involuntary manslaughter and cruelty to children.
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ok....based solely on the information in the OP (and there is of course likely to be rather a lot more depth to this) do others agree with the charges as brought?

Involuntary manslaughter and neglect i'm sure there could be a good case, but "malice murder" and "felony murder"?

Wouldn't this require wilful action to bring about the baby's death? Ie. that they were aware that their actions would result in death? We don't have either term in the UK, so perhaps a USian could give a brief outline of the specifications....
 
andyandy said:
Wouldn't this require wilful action to bring about the baby's death?
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I thought this charge was a bit odd based on the OP too. If the parents had been warned of the danger of this diet by a health care professional perhaps there might be a basis for a charge based on malice.

I found a bit more detail on this case. It seems the child's grandmother had warned the father of the child's failing health, but he did not want interference from doctors.
 
Morrigan said:
How in the HELL does that work?
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unless one subscribes to an absolute morality on the notion of eating meat, then the line which one draws is subjective in nature - and as such there is no absolute rationality. Nevertheless there is certainly room for rationality within one's own subjective framework.

If you accept certain premises, then the rational response is to become a vegan.

If you reject certain premises, then the rational response is likely to reject veganism.

this is something of a derail....if you wish to start a thread on the rationality of veganism then it's probably best off in R and P - but i'd be happy to join in :)
 
andyandy said:
Involuntary manslaughter and neglect i'm sure there could be a good case, but "malice murder" and "felony murder"?

Wouldn't this require wilful action to bring about the baby's death? Ie. that they were aware that their actions would result in death? We don't have either term in the UK, so perhaps a USian could give a brief outline of the specifications....
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The jury found them guilty of a willful action to bring about the baby's death. It wasn't just WHAT they were feeding him but the fact it was too little to sustain life.
 
volatile said:
In terms of veganism and woo - well, I'm vegan and I am because I haven't yet been given a rational reason not to be one.
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While unhealthy, meat and cheese and cream things taste extremely good?

And it's arguably far and away the best reason, as well as a sufficient one.

And I don't wanna hear arguments against it. You asked for a reason, there it is. :)
 
Do these "morons" make spelling errors?

How can you be so sure your not one of "them"?

Insulting people simply by there lack of intellect is no better than insulting the handicapped.
 
Zep said:
The child died not because the parents were vegans but because the parents were STUPID! STOOPID STOOPID STOOPID!

Millions of vegans raise perfectly healthy children all the time (although I suspect a percentage of these kids later suffer nutrition issues). So this particular incident was a sad exception, not the rule.

Stupidity is being bred out in this case - a very sad but necessary evolution.
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Which is why I wonder about the jail term. They did not intend to kill their baby, it was their first one so they did not know what they were doing.
 
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