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When Is Rape Rape?

There is the legal definition of rape, and then there is the definition of rape as provided by various groups.
In some of the more radical feminist groups...."Sex is rape". There's always an element of coercion or dominance. (at least, with male/female relations)

Legal defintions vary by state, but all to my knowledge all include elements of force, coercion, or "impaired ability to give consent".

A scenario often repeated would be:
She...."He got me drunk and had his way with me."
He..."We both got drunk and the sex was consensual."
 
Lisa Simpson said:
Honestly, if that was her definition, then she's got some serious hangups. So in addition to Yaffle's advice, I'd add "don't sleep with crazy people".
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The woman (that I had the debate with) seemed sane enough at first glance until she said "I want men to stop raping women", from which I have taken to mean that all men are rapists. So good indicator she has a deeper problem then simply receiving bad information, and no amount of logical reasoning will help her.

But it still raises the question, is this really what women are being taught?
 
Professor Yaffle said:
As to your issue about gender, I don't know about all jurisdictions, but in the UK the crime of rape specifically refers to penetration (oral/anal/vaginal) either with the penis or with an object. This means that a woman forcing a man to have sex with her wouldn't come under "rape" (unless she used some form of implement) but would still be a crime - a serious sexual assault. In common parlance though, it would be equated to rape.
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The original drafting of the Sexual Offences Bill (now act) 2006 made the crime of rape gender/sex neutral. After extensive lobbying against changing the definition of rape, a compromised was reached, a new crime of "being made to penetrate" was created, with penalties equal to that of rape. The upshot of this is, however, that bodies (both public and charitable) can discriminated between victims of serious sexual assault.
 
Mudcat said:
The woman (that I had the debate with) seemed sane enough at first glance until she said "I want men to stop raping women", from which I have taken to mean that all men are rapists. So good indicator she has a deeper problem then simply receiving bad information, and no amount of logical reasoning will help her.

But it still raises the question, is this really what women are being taught?
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I was never taught that, but when I was in college, we wore onions on our belts, 'cause it was the style at the time.
 
Mudcat said:
The woman (that I had the debate with) seemed sane enough at first glance until she said "I want men to stop raping women", from which I have taken to mean that all men are rapists. So good indicator she has a deeper problem then simply receiving bad information, and no amount of logical reasoning will help her.

But it still raises the question, is this really what women are being taught?
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In general I would say no, that is not what they are being taught. You are making a hasty generalization, equating this woman's ideas of what rape is, with all women. Essentially, you are making the same fallacy that she is when she implies that all men are rapists.
 
cwalner said:
In general I would say no, that is not what they are being taught. You are making a hasty generalization, equating this woman's ideas of what rape is, with all women. Essentially, you are making the same fallacy that she is when she implies that all men are rapists.
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What is the inverse of misogyny?
 
Bikewer said:
There is the legal definition of rape, and then there is the definition of rape as provided by various groups.
In some of the more radical feminist groups...."Sex is rape". There's always an element of coercion or dominance. (at least, with male/female relations)

Legal defintions vary by state, but all to my knowledge all include elements of force, coercion, or "impaired ability to give consent".

A scenario often repeated would be:
She...."He got me drunk and had his way with me."
He..."We both got drunk and the sex was consensual."
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I've been with women who obviously wanted me to 'take them' I guess you would say. And others who were acting out and as soon as I made my move they acted abhorred. Being led on can make for a sticky situation...add smiley here.
 
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rcfieldz said:
Sex outside marriage is consentual rape.
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I have heard quite a few things over the years, but this is the first time that I ever heard of 'consentual rape'.

Does that mean that there is also:

Consentual jaywalking?
Consentual bank robbery?
Consentual murder?
Consentual terrorism?

And so on.
 
Crossbow said:
I have heard quite a few things over the years, but this is the first time that I ever heard of 'consentual rape'.

Does that mean that there is also:

Consentual jaywalking?
Consentual bank robbery?
Consentual murder?
Consentual terrorism?

And so on.
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Those may be consequential.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
Consent can be both verbal and behavioural. Enthusiastically participating in sex is consent.

Other than that, your OP seems to be a mess of different ideas all thrown together, so its difficult to respond to them.

ETA. If you always make sure that the person you are sleeping with actually wants to have sex, and that they are aware of their surroundings and what is happening, you are never going to accidentally rape someone.
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I agree with all of this post. And I honestly don't see what there is to discuss here. So OP had a conversation with a stupid and crazy woman, and somehow he's confused about what rape is? Meh.
 
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