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What would "god" need to do in order to prove that she really existed?

arthwollipot said:
An omnipotent god could do different things for different people. It wouldn't have to be one thing to convince all of them.
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Exactly, and like Darat suggested, making everyone believe (including Darat) that she was the real deal would convince Darat (and me too).

But I wonder what would be the point of free will then, but that's for another thread.


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The Great Zaganza said:
that would make me lose my conviction straight away if I learned that someone got convinced by fallacious arguments.
That would make me believe that it's not God, but a person with brain-influencing technology at work.
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Good point, but what if (like Darat suggested) she made everyone believe (including Darat) that she was god, because that would convince Darat that she was the real deal (and me too).

But I wonder what would be the point of free will then, but that's for another thread.


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So what if the Abrahamic religions just got it wrong, and there is one or more gods, and they are not omnipotent, but just very powerful. It would be much more difficult for such a god to convince anybody that they are not just technologically advanced aliens.
 
steenkh said:
So what if the Abrahamic religions just got it wrong, and there is one or more gods, and they are not omnipotent, but just very powerful. It would be much more difficult for such a god to convince anybody that they are not just technologically advanced aliens.
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Powerful in what way?

Don't you think that they'd at least have to be able to create the Universe... or would they?


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AmyStrange said:
Prove that god is a male, and I'll take back my assertion.


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Easy.
For a start, god is repeatedly referred to in the Bible as a father, and thus male. In the New Testament, god fertilises a female, thus showing he's a he again. (Females can't fertilise females).
Lastly, it says in the Bible that a man can't enter heaven if he either has a damaged penis, or no penis at all. God, therefore, must have a penis, or he couldn't be in heaven.
In Islam, Allah is referred to as 'he' throughout the Quran. It is comical to watch the twisting and turning of Islamic theologists as they try to claim that somehow this means that Allah is neither sex.
So, unless you have copies of the original Bible and Quran, and can thereby prove that men misinterpreted the gender of god, I think the case is proven.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Easy.
For a start, god is repeatedly referred to in the Bible as a father, and thus male. In the New Testament, god fertilises a female, thus showing he's a he again. (Females can't fertilise females).
Lastly, it says in the Bible that a man can't enter heaven if he either has a damaged penis, or no penis at all. God, therefore, must have a penis, or he couldn't be in heaven.
In Islam, Allah is referred to as 'he' throughout the Quran. It is comical to watch the twisting and turning of Islamic theologists as they try to claim that somehow this means that Allah is neither sex.
So, unless you have copies of the original Bible and Quran, and can thereby prove that men misinterpreted the gender of god, I think the case is proven.
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Yup, but all that was written by "MEN" who might've muddled up the possible telepathic messages sent by her so they could run things their way rather than hers.

Sorry, but quoting the bible doesn't prove a thing, unless you can prove the "MEN" weren't lying, or weren't hallucinating, and it would also mean god had a penis.

Plus, all that incest in genesis makes it really hard to take the bible seriously, but nice try anyway.


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AmyStrange said:
Yup, but all that was written by "MEN" who might've muddled up the possible telepathic messages sent by her so they could run things their way rather than hers.

Sorry, but quoting the bible doesn't prove a thing, unless you can prove the "MEN" weren't lying, or weren't hallucinating, and it would also mean god had a penis.

Plus, all that incest in genesis makes it really hard to take the bible seriously, but nice try anyway.


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1. If you want to contend that all the books of the Bible were written by men, then please prove it. How do you know who wrote them?
2. It is a fallacy to ask someone to prove a negative. You made a positive assertion, namely that men were lying or hallucinating, so it's up to you to prove it.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
No, Ziggurat didn't. It was the hypothetical assumption that a god would have an obligation to reveal itself to us that Ziggurat called stupid. Not you.
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Yes, Ziggurat did. Ziggurat told me not to be stupid:

Ziggurat said:
I don't think this is a particularly interesting question. Supposing that there is an omnipotent, omniscient god, do they have any obligation to prove their existence to you? No, of course not, don't be stupid. Do they have any interest in proving to you that they do? It's arrogant to presume they do. But if for some reason god wants you to believe in them, they can figure out how to get you to without our help, and without yours. And they wouldn't even need proof to accomplish it. So under what conditions could your decision of what proof you would or would not accept possibly matter?
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Cosmic Yak said:
1. If you want to contend that all the books of the Bible were written by men, then please prove it. How do you know who wrote them?
2. It is a fallacy to ask someone to prove a negative. You made a positive assertion, namely that men were lying or hallucinating, so it's up to you to prove it.
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I haven't found one, so it's up to you to name one book in any bible that wasn't written by a man, and then you have to prove it was written by a woman.


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Cosmic Yak said:
I refer you again to my previous point about the fallacy of asking someone to prove a negative.
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Nope, I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I'm asking you to prove a positive, i.e. that a woman wrote one book of any bible in history.

I'm assuming you can't, so my assertion still stands.

Plus, are REALLY trying to prove something by using the bible, because then you'll have to explain all the incest in genesis.


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AmyStrange said:
Nope, I'm not asking you to prove a negative. I'm asking you to prove a positive, i.e. that a woman wrote one book of any bible in history.
AmyStrange said:
I haven't found one, so it's up to you to
name one book in any bible that wasn't written by a man, and then you have to prove it was written by a woman.
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I have highlighted the negative claim you want me to prove.
 
Cosmic Yak said:
I have highlighted the negative claim you want me to prove.
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All that says to me is you can't come up with one book in any bible that was written by a woman.

How hard would that be if it were true?

As a matter of fact, let me help you out some:


preachitteachit.org

Were There Any Women Bible Writers?

Dear Roger, There seems to be much emphasis these days on the role of women in ministry. I like that because when I was young women definitely took a…
preachitteachit.org


The closest I've come is Julian of Norwich:


Both the Long Text and Short Text of Julian's Revelations of Divine Love contain an account of each of her revelations.
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Both those books are actually used as part of the canons of the Roman Catholic Church:

It describes meeting god and finding out that god contains both a man and a woman's spirit.


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The Great Zaganza said:
I guess a series of experiments is required that will test God's omniscience, omnipresence and benevolence - in other words: make God do multiple Trolley Problems simultaneously all over the world!
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Surely normal human activity supplies God with natural experiments of multiple trolley problems every day already. If God was just, we could measure Her justice statistically.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Surely normal human activity supplies God with natural experiments of multiple trolley problems every day already. If God was just, we could measure Her justice statistically.
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I agree, but the argument by apologists is that by killing a newborn and their mother in agony somehow leads to everyone being happy later.

I guess we need to audit Heaven to find out how exactly everyone is doing.
 
While it's true that bad things might happen to good people for just reasons of which we're simply ignorant, that only explains away individual cases. If we want to cling to the conviction that, all other things being equal, bad things would happen less to good people and vice versa, then we should still see be able to see that divine justice statistically.

It may be that we are not using the same definitions of good and bad as whoever's in charge of meting out justice.
 
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