What to do with prostitutes

However: if you buy those cookies from me, if money changes hands, I have just broken a whole slew of laws, as well as opened myself up for lawsuits.
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Really, slingblade ?

Not in the UK, for sure. Over here, as long as I don't go over a certain threshold, I can sell my personal possessions to whoever I like without being regulated.

Don't you have yard-sales in the States, that operate on the same principle ?

So, to accommodate your objection. let's assume in my hypothetical hotel scenario, that the commercial transaction is a one-off, unlikely to be repeated, so it doesn't attract the commercial regulations to which you refer.

It's still illegal though.

So, my question remains :

"what changes would you like to make to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate ?"




Gnu.

PS "Let me guess: you're a libertarian, aren't you?".

I'm a Pisces, actually.
 
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Gnu Ordure said:
Really, slingblade ?

Not in the UK, for sure. Over here, as long as I don't go over a certain threshold, I can sell my personal possessions to whoever I like without being regulated.

Don't you have yard-sales in the States, that operate on the same principle ?
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Yard sales actually have certain regulations in the U.S., which likely vary from state to state. But there are regulations. In some areas, it is even illegal to have one.

But this happens to be a subject on which I have a lot of experience.
By making cookies for sale in my home kitchen, I have violated any number of food safety regulations. My kitchen has not been inspected; my food products have not been inspected; my sanitary facilities have not been inspected. I am not using FDA-approved ingredient labeling on my cookies; I may not even be packaging them sanitarily.

It is generally against the law to produce food for commercial sale in the same home kitchen in which you prepare your own food. However, in the U.S., the laws which apply may vary from state to state. In Colorado, I know these are the laws. I know, because I ran afoul of them.

I cannot legally sell the cookies I bake in my kitchen, unless I first meet all of the regulations which govern this issue.




So, my question remains :

"what changes would you like to make to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate ?"
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I don't care what they do with the laws in Nevada. I would like to see prostitution legalized and regulated, and from what I know of the system in Nevada, it suits me and my opinions just fine.
 
Gnu Ordure said:
You're trying to eradicate the problems associated with illegal prostitution by regulating it, but that immediately criminalizes activity that breaks those regulations, leaving you with the problems associated with illegal prostitution.
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My point is that you claim regulating the industry simply changes the illegal aspects of the act. I'm pointing out that even in your "pure" sex (ie married sex) there are instances of acts being illegal.

Take your example.

In room A is a civilian married couple having oral sex

In room B is a prostitute and a John having oral sex

In room C is a military couple having oral sex

Room A is the only legal room, even though there are 2 married couples. Would you expect the military to courtmarital the couple? Is that really an acceptable idea in this day and age? Yet the only difference between the legal oral sex and the illegal oral sex in the above example is the empolyment of the individuals.
 
I would like to see prostitution legalized and regulated, and from what I know of the system in Nevada, it suits me and my opinions just fine.
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In which case, slingblade, my question doesn't apply to you.

I have posited this hotel scenario, and you say you are happy with Nevadan law as it stands, the law is fair, and the commercial couple are breaking the law and are therefore criminals.

Fair enough.

My question is intended for those, like Todd, who think the law is unfair.

As I asked :


Todd, and others, think this is unfair and wrong, and that the behaviour in each hotel room should be equally legitimate.


So my question to all of you is : what changes would you like to make to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate ?
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Gnu.
 
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Gnu Ordure said:
My question is intended for those, like Todd, who think the law is unfair.

So my question to all of you is : what changes would you like to make to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate?
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For starters, I would like to see the system in place in the rural counties which have legalized prostitution extended to cover the whole state, including Las Vegas and Reno. Unfortunately that's not politically possible at the moment, since they're trying to promote Las Vegas as a family-friendly vacation destination and don't want any press that would affect that, whether it had any basis in reality or not.

As for the details of further regulation, I'm not really qualified to say. That would be the domain of the state health and labor departments, and other existing regulatory bodies.

ETA: Also, I think you're misunderstanding what people like Slingblade and I mean when we say we support the system in Nevada. What we mean (I think -- correct me if I'm wrong!) is that we support the system used in the parts of Nevada where prostitution has been legalized, not that we support the system in the entire state, where it's legal in some counties but not others.
 
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slingblade said:
That's it?


That's it?

You'd use legalized prostitution to instigate more lawsuits against child abusers? You took Ed knows how many pages to finally spew out your solution--and this is it?

But there's no reason you can't do that now! Child abuse is already illegal! Sue away! Get your voice and face out there in the media now! What are you waiting for, man--it's Saturday, and I guarantee you a little girl is being fondled, a little boy is being sodomized, RIGHT NOW, somewhere.

So, it still boils down to you doing nothing to prevent the abuse. Just a band-aid fix after the damage is done.

Okay. Nice way to waste time. Sheesh.

EDIT: And, I might add, even if you were the "new leader of legalized prostitution," you can't bring suit on someone's behalf. You're just a boss, an employer. You don't buy the girls, you don't own them for Ed's sake. They can already bring their own suits right now if they want to, and you certainly can't help them with that.

Your "solution" is no solution at all.
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For evil to perpetuate all good men need do is nothing.

Legislation reduced the incidences of dead beat fathers. It could and would do the same for the abuses spoken to here. A prediction based on another scenario or issue has a good chance of becoming reality.

Regards
DL
 
Greatest I am said:
For evil to perpetuate all good men need do is nothing.
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You are doing nothing.

You're posing hypotheticals and answering posts on an internet forum. What's that doing for the little girl three blocks away from you whose uncle is telling her, right now, how much she'll like it?

Legislation reduced the incidences of dead beat fathers.
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That's because no effective legal remedy existed in the past, and legislation had to be created to address the problem.

Child sexual abuse is already illegal!

It could and would do the same for the abuses spoken to here.
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It hasn't yet. It is already against the law to sexually abuse a child.

More laws aren't going to prevent it. More laws are barely going to address it.

A prediction based on another scenario or issue has a good chance of becoming reality.
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Huh? Not when the two scenarios have so little in common.

So after all of this, all you can come up with is that legalizing prostitution will somehow help victims of child sexual abuse bring suit against their abusers, and this will, in a manner not explained, bring a reduction in abuse?

Because the threat of arrest and conviction isn't doing it;
Nor is the threat of being on a sex-offender's registry for life doing it;
But a lawsuit--which most offenders won't be able to counter or pay, because most offenders aren't wealthy--will somehow magically scare abusers away from their victims.

But none of that will come about until prostitution is legalized, supposedly nation-wide or even globally--and so in the meantime, you can sit and wait on it.

Doing nothing.
 
Todd, sorry, your answer doesn't work.

I asked :

what changes would you like to make to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate?
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and you said :

For starters, I would like to see the system in place in the rural counties which have legalized prostitution extended to cover the whole state, including Las Vegas and Reno
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That wouldn't legitimize our commercial couple in the Vegas hotel, Todd, in fact just the opposite: they would then be breaking the law by not being in licensed premises, by not having had the required tests and by not wearing a condom.

Do you (or does anyone else) have any other suggestions ?



Gnu.
 
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Yard sales actually have certain regulations in the U.S., which likely vary from state to state. But there are regulations. In some areas, it is even illegal to have one.

... (snipping) ..

By making cookies for sale in my home kitchen, I have violated any number of food safety regulations. ...

... in Colorado, I know these are the laws.

I know, because I ran afoul of them.
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I'm intrigued, slingblade.

You got done by the Cookie Police ?

This is a side of America I didn't know about...

Five years inside for a yard-sale and eight for selling cookies*.... just a moment ... Colorado ... you don't happen to live in South Park, do you ?


Gnu.




* Hang on a sec; what exactly were you putting in those cookies ?
 
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What to do with prostitutes?

a) in case of selling their services to married men, jail them and their married customers for multiple adultery

b) in case of voluntarily working under a pimp, jail the pimp and free the woman of all charges

c) in case of being forced to do the work, execute the pimp and give all his property to the females forced to prostitution
 
JJM 777 said:
What to do with prostitutes?

a) in case of selling their services to married men, jail them and their married customers for multiple adultery

b) in case of voluntarily working under a pimp, jail the pimp and free the woman of all charges

c) in case of being forced to do the work, execute the pimp and give all his property to the females forced to prostitution
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Yeah, all prostitutes are women. :rolleyes:

(Haven't we done this bit already?)
 
Gnu Ordure said:
I'm intrigued, slingblade.

You got done by the Cookie Police ?

This is a side of America I didn't know about...

Five years inside for a yard-sale and eight for selling cookies*.... just a moment ... Colorado ... you don't happen to live in South Park, do you ?


Gnu.




* Hang on a sec; what exactly were you putting in those cookies ?
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I got issued a cease and desist order by the State Health Department for producing food for commercial sale from an uninspected home kitchen.

I honestly had no idea you couldn't sell food you made at home. We had a nice chat; I didn't go to jail or even get a fine. I was informed that if I installed a separate sink, oven, and fridge, kept the food separate from my own groceries, used separate utensils, and allowed an inspector to inspect, I could get a license to sell my goods (they were actually raisin turnovers and coffee cakes). I'd also have to have a heat-sealer for packaging, and print up some labels.

Christ, I was just trying to earn a little pin money! So, I bought the third-largest wholesale/retail bakery in Denver, instead.

(Just kidding--we bought that a couple of years later.)



Oh, and no, I never lived in Fairplay, but I supplied a bakery in Conifer for a while, and worked for Rosanne's first husband, over the hill in another town for a while. And that stripper-mayor? She used to cut my hair.
 
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I am from the Netherlands...

Prostitution has been legalised I think 4-5 years ago.

So far this has resulted in:

- More prostitutes receiving medical insurance/care
- Less illegal brothels
- Less forced prostitution
- Prostitutes paying taxes
- Less minors and illegal aliens working as prostitutes

As far as I know, there has not been an uprise in the ammount of prostitution...

Draw your own conclusion I would say...

Bruce Jongejans
 
Broes said:
I am from the Netherlands...

Prostitution has been legalised I think 4-5 years ago.

So far this has resulted in:

- More prostitutes receiving medical insurance/care
- Less illegal brothels
- Less forced prostitution
- Prostitutes paying taxes
- Less minors and illegal aliens working as prostitutes

As far as I know, there has not been an uprise in the ammount of prostitution...

Draw your own conclusion I would say...

Bruce Jongejans
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My drawn conclusion:

Greatest I Am is full of crap.

Authority indeed.
 
Gnu Ordure said:
That wouldn't legitimize our commercial couple in the Vegas hotel, Todd, in fact just the opposite: they would then be breaking the law by not being in licensed premises, by not having had the required tests and by not wearing a condom.
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Well, I said "for starters," and then I went on to say that I'm not qualified to answer questions like that. I'm sorry, but I'm not. Given time, it's entirely possible the situation you describe might be allowed. It's also possible it wouldn't.

However, it's my understanding that the hotel situation is already sort of a gray area. Yes, the current law says that prostitution can only take place in brothels, but there's apparently some legal ambiguity about when exactly the "prostitution" takes place: is it when the sex takes place, or is it when the money changes hands? You can make a good argument that, legally, it's the latter: police certainly think so, since they arrest hookers and johns when money is exchanged, even though no sex has taken place yet. So if someone goes to a brothel, makes a deal and pays for it, and then he and the woman go to a hotel for the night, is that breaking the law?

I also wouldn't have a problem with a "hotel exception" explicitly written into the law -- one advantage of centralizing things in brothels is security for the women, but I think hotels could work if they guaranteed certain standards of security as well. It would have to be opt-in, obviously (sort of like getting a liquor license), and frankly I don't think there would be a lot of takers, but hey, that's their business.

As for condom use, I forgot that was part of your example. No, I think condom use should always be required. It's just a matter of public health. Yes, that means that the "commercial couple" can't do everything that the regular couple can, but that's already the case in a lot of areas. Like Slingblade points out, professional chefs have to follow procedures that ordinary people in their kitchens don't. Same deal here. It's for the safety of the employees and their clients.
 
Well, I said "for starters,"
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No problem, Todd, have that for starters. But it doesn't legitimize the commercial couple, so what's the next step ?

I'm not qualified to answer questions like that
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No qualifications required, Todd; I'm just asking for common-sense suggestions and opinions.

My question remains:

what changes would you like to make to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate?
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Actually, can I re-phrase the question slightly ? It's a more objective question if it says :

what changes could be made to the current laws in Nevada such that the behaviour of the commercial couple becomes legitimate?
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Phrased like that, there is only one correct answer, as far as I can see (an answer that unfortunately appears to be unacceptable to all you liberals).



But if anyone has any other suggestions...


Gnu.
 
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