What to do with prostitutes

[The Great Hairy One]

Which kind of proves my point. The introduction of a financial transaction changed everything about your experience. One minute you were enjoying your date and feeling warm and affectionate and horny... the next minute you've terminated the encounter, because you realize it's been fake.

No, as he said in his post, he terminated the date because she wasn't honest with him up front. Nothing to do with him having to "pay for it".

And as others have pointed out, your example is incorrect. I've never met a prostitute who wasn't extremely clear of prices and services offered within the first five minutes of conversation, UNLESS they were "off duty". In which case, they were just another normal human being, enjoying a meal and a drink, with a friendly conversation thrown in. If anything else happened beyond that, they don't charge.

But is it the same ? No, the financial transaction has changed everything. Nothing means the same. Nothing feels the same. Nothing is the same.

How does paying for it make the sex any different???

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[Gnu Ordure]

Don't push your weird social hang-ups on the rest of us.

What social hang-ups are those, wheezebucket ?

you still have yet to make a point against prostitution that's worth considering.

I am not making any points against prostitution.

I am merely suggesting that 'paid-for-sex' cannot be a substitute for 'sex-in-a-loving-relationship sex', for the reasons I've given.

Gnu.

 

[Wheezebucket]

What social hang-ups are those, wheezebucket ?



I am not making any points against prostitution.

I am merely suggesting that 'paid-for-sex' cannot be a substitute for 'sex-in-a-loving-relationship sex', for the reasons I've given.

Gnu.

Oops, I might have confused you with GIA for a sec, so scratch the social hangups remark. People without avatars blend in to me sometimes.

And I agree, they're different - but equally good in their own ways.

 

[toddjh]

That's exactly the situation in my contrived scenario, Todd. You think you're on a date, but there's been a misunderstanding, she's a hooker.

As several people have pointed out, no hooker is going to waste her time like that. Your example is totally silly.

As you say, you've heard of similar cases...

No, I've heard of cases where there was a brief misunderstanding, which was corrected as soon as it became known that there was a misunderstanding. That's absolutely nothing like your hypothetical scenario.

Which kind of proves my point. The introduction of a financial transaction changed everything about your experience. One minute you were enjoying your date and feeling warm and affectionate and horny... the next minute you've terminated the encounter, because you realize it's been fake.

No, I terminated the encounter because this woman is apparently a psychotic liar who is wasting my time! I have absolutely no problem with the idea of paying for sex. I haven't had reason to do it yet, but sure, under the right circumstances I would consider it. My wife has told me that she wants to take me out to a brothel in Nevada as a present sometime, and you know what? I'd let her!

Nothing feels the same. Nothing is the same.

I never said it was the same. I just said it wasn't necessarily bad.

 

[Gnu Ordure]

sorry, must go to bed...

most interesting discussion, thank you.

couple of points...

From your previous posts, it seems to me that your fundamental point is that "prostitution is BAD!!".

not at all, TGHO, never said that. Fake, inauthentic, an act... yes.

but not bad.

I said :

PS Edit plus - maybe I should clarify - in spite of the negative attitude that I display above, I still think that there is nothing ethically wrong in prostitution between consenting adults (the women put on an act, and the men are free to believe it or not) - and that it should not be illegal.

OK ?

Oops, I might have confused you with GIA for a sec,

no problem, wb.


gnu.

 

[Lonewulf]

So, let me get this straight...

GIA isn't against prostitution, but is instead against child abuse and exploitation?

Hell, I'm down with that. Let's party!

 

[The Atheist]

Hell, I'm down with that. Let's party!

Great idea, I'll bring the hookers. Any preference?

 

[The Great Hairy One]

not at all, TGHO, never said that. Fake, inauthentic, an act... yes.

OK, so not bad as such. But then you said:

I am merely suggesting that 'paid-for-sex' cannot be a substitute for 'sex-in-a-loving-relationship sex', for the reasons I've given.

I'd disagree with you on this point, but that's probably opinion based rather than based on objective criteria.

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[Lonewulf]

Even if prostitution "cannot substitute" a loving relationship, does nothing to change the idea of a person's freedom over their own body or mind.

I feel that people should be free to live their own lives, and make their own mistakes, as long as they do not directly harm others. In this particular case, I can see no victims in prostitution alone. Even if there are prostitutes that are a result of child abuse, that's an argument against child abuse -- NOT prostitution. If prostitutes are being exploited -- that's an argument against exploitation, NOT prostitution.

In the end, I feel that there is no sufficient cause to make prostitution illegal, and that it does more harm than good. It makes the prostitutes into victims even moreso than any child abuse; it makes them into criminals, subjugated by law and the police.

 

[Greatest I am]

Of course we all agree that there should be a better way, but given that there's not, do you really think she and her sisters would be better off if that avenue had not been open to them?

You assume there is no better way without trying any.
For all we know just the attempt may be the catalyst required to smarten us men up.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't see how that second sentence follows from the first, especially the "lies" part. In fact, I can think of no more honest transaction than paying for sex -- each party is being perfectly truthful about what they want.

Edit: Reading the rest of the post, I just have to say that the hypothetical man and woman you're describing sure have some serious issues. I think you're taking the absolute worst case scenario and overextrapolating. For starters, not all men want feigned intimacy or an emotional connection; in fact, I'd wager that a lot of the ones that hire prostitutes just want some sexual release minus the baggage. That goes double for the men who hire the streetwalker types (who definitely do not include a lot of cuddling as part of the package).

And not all prostitutes feel contempt for their clients. The ones I know say they actually like a lot of their clients and, yes, even have fun with them. Not all, of course, but then again I'm not crazy about all of my (web design) clients, either.

As for prostitution not being "respectable," I disagree. It's definitely not respected in Western society at least, but that's just a cultural norm and subject to change. Certainly many cultures have held prostitutes, or at least some classes of prostitutes, in fairly high regard.

Name one today.

Rome was probably the best example of what you are speaking to.
Problem is I would not have liked to be used as a rubbing place by my parents at 10 or 12 years old. This aptitude follows glorification of the trade.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

What a load of rubbish!!

Sex can be quite physically satisfying when performed with a new acquaintance for which one's only feelings are either based on lust or self-interest. Sex can also be rather explosive and very enjoyable with someone who is simply a friend, with no love involved.

Don't make the common mistake of romance writers, and assume "sex = love", for that is a fallacy. The two can operate in complete isolation.




So if I call a man a "son of a flea-ridden donkey", donkeys are not respectable? If I call a man a "fellatio performing bastard" (or words to that effect), does that mean homosexual oral sex is not respectable? Your argument here is spurious and trivial.

Cheers,
TGHO

I do not think lust after and prostitution go together.
I lust after a person. I do not lust after a commodity.
Lust can only be appeased by love.
Hornyness can be appeased by a hooker if you have enough money to pay for a good one.
If your down to your last 10 or 20 well too bad so sad for your lust. You get to do an ugly one.


Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

No, as he said in his post, he terminated the date because she wasn't honest with him up front. Nothing to do with him having to "pay for it".

And as others have pointed out, your example is incorrect. I've never met a prostitute who wasn't extremely clear of prices and services offered within the first five minutes of conversation, UNLESS they were "off duty". In which case, they were just another normal human being, enjoying a meal and a drink, with a friendly conversation thrown in. If anything else happened beyond that, they don't charge.

Sex is supposed to be a shared experience with pleasure for both participants. Orgasm in other words.
When was the last time a hooker had one with a John.
A real one I mean. Or is this concept foreign to a John.

If you need to ask what the difference is, this indicates that you have never experienced romantic sex.







How does paying for it make the sex any different???

Cheers,
TGHO

Too bad so sad for you.

Regards
DL

 

[Lonewulf]

You assume there is no better way without trying any.
For all we know just the attempt may be the catalyst required to smarten us men up.

Regards
DL

What would?

Banning prostitution? The prostitution that's already banned in most of the U.S.?

 

[Greatest I am]

Closing the escape route of prostitution may force the victims to use social systems earlier and work against the underlying problems of abuse and slavery in a more effective way. It may train our young to fight rather than run. Help them recognize their rights.
It is to us to give them the right weapons. This may ultimately be good for other families as well.
I do not like forcing children against the wall but from there their screams can be heard.
On the streets, we are comfortably deaf to their plight and we carry on in our own ignorance.


Regards
DL

 

[Lonewulf]

Closing the escape route of prostitution may force the victims to use social systems earlier and work against the underlying problems of abuse and slavery in a more effective way.

That's worked out great so far!

Oh wait.

Reality, unfortunately, has already disproved your idea.

 

[Greatest I am]

That's worked out great so far!

Oh wait.

Reality, unfortunately, has already disproved your idea.

No.
It has yet to be tried and may never if we glorify prostitution.

Regards
DL

 

[Z]

GiM, you're STILL conflating incest with prostitution! Why is that? Why are you so insistent on mixing incest with prostitution? Just because you choose to sell your body does NOT mean it's OK for your father or mother or brothers to use your services!

I'm very close to considering your posts the result of a somewhat complex bot and putting you on 'ignore', considering you continually make the same exact mistakes, time and time again.

And lust is satisfied through sex, not love. Love and sex are two entirely different concepts, and should not be conflated. It's entirely possible to love someone and not desire sex with them; in fact, it's quite common as a couple grows older to find themselves with reduced sexual appetite (regarding each other) and enhanced love.

Meanwhile, it's entirely possible to enjoy great, wonderful, mind-blowing sex without love. If casual sex is OK - and I've yet to hear you claim that casual sex is a sin - then paid-for sex should also be considered OK. Paid-for sex is just casual sex with a financial transaction applied.

In fact, sex is often better when it's with someone you're only passingly familiar with - or even with a near-total stranger - because you don't get the emotional hang-ups and issues that you do with a loved one.

If you just once posted a criticism of prostitution that did NOT inherently imply that prostitution was a sin, you might get farther; but it's transparent that all you're doing is offering post-hoc rationalization for your own belief that prostitution is evil. The fact is, you feel that prostitution is wrong (maybe even have some misguided religious notion about it) and are now desperately backpeddling to come up with reasons why it might actually be evil... yet you're failing utterly.

The fact of the matter is there is nothing inherently wrong with prostitution. There is something inherently wrong with incest, abuse, exploitation, etc.

You claim that removing prostitution would force people to seek more legitimate means of escaping bad situations, but that claim is provably false. You'd rather attack an outlet than the source of the problem? Vile.

The world would be a far better place if we attacked the abuse, the neglect, the incest and rape, the exploitation. If we stopped wasting our time harrassing prostitutes and used that time and resources getting to the roots of the actual problem, we could make the world a far nicer place. And legalizing (and subsequently regulating and taxing) prostitution would be a tremendous boon for our civilization - if only anal-retentive moral snobs such as yourself could see past your book of long-dead liars and see the world as it truly is.

I've never once used a prostitute in my life (I'm quite happy with pornography and masturbation, thanks), but I'm all for legalizing it.

BTW - assuming for a second you're not a bot or a mindless 12-year-old troll - what are your views on mastubation? I am truly, honestly curious.

The Rev.

 

[toddjh]

Sex is supposed to be a shared experience with pleasure for both participants. Orgasm in other words.
When was the last time a hooker had one with a John.
A real one I mean. Or is this concept foreign to a John.

First of all, I think your concept of sex is very narrow if you believe that orgasm is the be-all and end-all of sweating up the sheets. The very best sex I've had did not involve an orgasm on my end.

And second, I think you're assuming too much. One of the prostitutes I've spoken to says she rarely climaxes on the job, but the other claims to have around six orgasms per day. It's probably true that the average streetwalker isn't in the throes of ecstasy with every john, but that's not the only kind of prostitute.

And third, who the hell are you to tell other people what sex is "supposed" to be? I thought you were concerned with ending abuse and exploitation, but now apparently you're the Orgasm Police.

 

[Lonewulf]

And third, who the hell are you to tell other people what sex is "supposed" to be? I thought you were concerned with ending abuse and exploitation, but now apparently you're the Orgasm Police.

The Orgasm Police?

That sounds... uh... kinky.