What to do with people that murder pets?

[L.Y.S.]

Maybe this is my human bias, and a result of never owning pets, but I don't see jailing a human being over an animal's death as viable. Sure I agree that people who abuse or kill animals are not good people, but these people need treatment not jailing.

 

[Rolfe]

There seems to be a big difference between Britain and the USA as regards letting cats roam. In Britain it's absolutely normal, and every pet shop sells cat flaps to fit in a door to let your cat have free access in and out. Very few people rig their gardens to keep their cat in. (Some rig their gardens to keep cats out - the same company exhibits at cat shows and garden shows, with the same product, promoted for diametrically opposite purposes!)

We accept that there are dangers, but unless there is a very busy road or the area is very urban, these dangers are not considered sufficient to justify keeping cats in. Of course, we don't have coyotes and so on.

I've heard Dogdoctor on this forum on an absolute rant against people who let their cats out, considering it to the the height of irresponsibility and selfishness, indeed cruelty. It's quite a common view in the USA, that cats should always be confined. So really, wherever you are, someone else's mileage is going to vary.

Rolfe.

 

[Cleon]

There seems to be a big difference between Britain and the USA as regards letting cats roam. In Britain it's absolutely normal, and every pet shop sells cat flaps to fit in a door to let your cat have free access in and out. Very few people rig their gardens to keep their cat in.

It's pretty common in the US, too, though there's a growing number of people (like DogDoctor) who are raising some serious objections.

Keep in mind this isn't just a cultural thing; we have things that the UK doesn't, like coyotes. And whackadoodles with easy access to semi-automatic rifles.

 

[welshdean]

We put down dogs that bite people. I'm thinking people that bring violence the other direction for kicks ought to be removed from society too.

Well I'm not advocating the death penalty.

Oh, but you were. Re-read the above, if you didn't mean doling out the death penalty, it sure looks like you did.

I made it very clear I am dissatisfied with their leniency.

I'm sorry but for me I want them in prison for at least ten years.

Lock them up for ten years, ten bloody years? Come on we can all see your grieving, but ten bloody years?

I wasn't aware so many people were in favor of shooting cats in front of people's houses.

So that's the solution? Keep cats locked away inside houses for all time because if one is outside, even on the front lawn, it must be shot?

Now I know you're intelligent enough to know that nobody has advocated the shooting of any pets. As someone has already said up-thread, you really need to take a step back for a little while.

If that is the state of things I say humanity has lost its way.

Mate, humanity lost it's way many, many moons ago. I'm sorry, really sorry to hear about Simon. As a cat lover and owner, I can really empathise with you (especially so as our childhood cat got shot with an air rifle in the '70s and I was distraught. Gladly Smokey survived the ordeal) but you reeally need to put it all in perspective. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

 

[Meadmaker]

There seems to be a big difference between Britain and the USA as regards letting cats roam. In Britain it's absolutely normal, and every pet shop sells cat flaps to fit in a door to let your cat have free access in and out. Very few people rig their gardens to keep their cat in. (Some rig their gardens to keep cats out - the same company exhibits at cat shows and garden shows, with the same product, promoted for diametrically opposite purposes!)

We accept that there are dangers, but unless there is a very busy road or the area is very urban, these dangers are not considered sufficient to justify keeping cats in. Of course, we don't have coyotes and so on.

I've heard Dogdoctor on this forum on an absolute rant against people who let their cats out, considering it to the the height of irresponsibility and selfishness, indeed cruelty. It's quite a common view in the USA, that cats should always be confined. So really, wherever you are, someone else's mileage is going to vary.

Rolfe.

In the small town where I grew up, it was,and still is, common practice to let cats roam. In the suburban neighborhood where I live now, it is frowned upon, and I think technically illegal. I know that our cats are now indoor cats.

It's just a question of population density. With more traffic and interaction, it's more dangerous for the cats, and creates potential issues for people as well. After all, there's really no place for my cat to roam except on my neighbors' yards and porches. Inflicting my love of cats on them seems a bit selfish of me.

On the other hand, I notice that we frequently get notices about ways to prevent rat infestations. I think if we just let our cats roam a bit more, that would be a non-existent problem.



As to the question of the OP, I think I wouldn't go overboard by sending them away "for a long time", if long is measured in years. However, it wouldn't surprise me if deliberately killing someone else's pet wouldn't already be punishable with some pretty stiff penalties, depending on the circumstances. I don't think our laws ought to go overboard protecting animals, but when it's obvious that the animal is a pet, an attack on the animal is also an attack on a person, and I think some law enforcement officials would treat it as such, at least as much as is allowable by law.

 

[BStrong]

Very good life long friend of mine, musician, cat lover, caught a guy on a work site killing feral kittens.

Lucky for my friend that the guy lived, because Tony didn't restrain himself.

Cops sympathized with his reaction, and the 1970's were very much different from today.

 

[Akri]

There seems to be a big difference between Britain and the USA as regards letting cats roam. In Britain it's absolutely normal, and every pet shop sells cat flaps to fit in a door to let your cat have free access in and out. Very few people rig their gardens to keep their cat in. (Some rig their gardens to keep cats out - the same company exhibits at cat shows and garden shows, with the same product, promoted for diametrically opposite purposes!)

We accept that there are dangers, but unless there is a very busy road or the area is very urban, these dangers are not considered sufficient to justify keeping cats in. Of course, we don't have coyotes and so on.

I've heard Dogdoctor on this forum on an absolute rant against people who let their cats out, considering it to the the height of irresponsibility and selfishness, indeed cruelty. It's quite a common view in the USA, that cats should always be confined. So really, wherever you are, someone else's mileage is going to vary.

Rolfe.

I'm in the US, and it's common to let cats roam here. But I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be, for much the same reason that it shouldn't be acceptable to let your dog run around. I really don't get why we have a double standard there.

 

[Travis]

No. The solution is don't let your cat wander around the neighborhood unsupervised, because it is dangerous and irresponsible to do so. It's considered unacceptable for people to let their dogs wander around unsupervised; why should cats be any different? Train your cat to use a lead, or put up a cat fence in your yard, or else, yes, keep it in doors.

Do you tell women to avoid rape by never leaving the house?

I mean I have these wacky ideas that maybe we shouldn't accept that these things happen and maybe try to stop them.

There seems to be a big difference between Britain and the USA as regards letting cats roam. In Britain it's absolutely normal, and every pet shop sells cat flaps to fit in a door to let your cat have free access in and out. Very few people rig their gardens to keep their cat in. (Some rig their gardens to keep cats out - the same company exhibits at cat shows and garden shows, with the same product, promoted for diametrically opposite purposes!)

It is very normal here too. I only know one person in town who keeps their cats indoors. Everyone has cats and they all wander around. My cats usually never leave the yard though. They just aren't interested. Probably because they are all fixed.

Oh, but you were. Re-read the above, if you didn't mean doling out the death penalty, it sure looks like you did.

I'm not sure how you got that.

Lock them up for ten years, ten bloody years? Come on we can all see your grieving, but ten bloody years?

I see. So if you had the misfortune to be born a cat instead of a human ten years is too much if someone shoots you for no reason? Interesting.

Ten years would be a minimum. I've always held the position that people that kill animals for fun should be locked away forever. Lock 'em up. Throw away the key.

I held that position before this happened and I'm doubling down on it now.

 

[welshdean]

Very good life long friend of mine, musician, cat lover, caught a guy on a work site killing feral kittens.

Lucky for my friend that the guy lived, because Tony didn't restrain himself.

Cops sympathized with his reaction, and the 1970's were very much different from today.

I used to work in a large steelworks in Cardiff during the late '80s and had to take 11 kittens home in a box to save them from a nasty end. It took me months to home them and cost me about £25 each to get 'fixed'. I kept three for myself, Huey, Duey and ..... Spike!!

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I've always held the position that people that kill animals for fun should be locked away forever. Lock 'em up. Throw away the key.

Out of interest, do you include people who hunt in that? Trophy hunters in particular.

 

[Akri]

Do you tell women to avoid rape by never leaving the house?

No. Of course, I also don't tell husbands to microchip their wives in case they get lost, or tell parents to have their daughters sterilized in order to prevent unwanted litters.

So now that we've gotten that silliness out of the way, do you actually have a rational response to my post?

I mean I have these wacky ideas that maybe we shouldn't accept that these things happen and maybe try to stop them.

I agree; these things absolutely shouldn't happen. And when we live in a world where that's the case, then you can use their not-happening as an argument for letting cats run around unsupervised (of course, there will still be the issue of other animals harming your cat, and of cars accidentally hitting it, and of your cat being an unnecessary nuisance to others). But the world we live in now is one where cruel cat-hating people exist. If you let your cat roam around unsupervised (and let me stress that I am offering alternatives to "lock your cat up indoors and never let him step outside", because you seem to be missing that point) then you are exposing him to that risk without putting yourself in a position to be able to protect him.

That doesn't make it your fault that he was killed. It does mean that you have the ability to prevent any future cats you might own from sharing a similar fate.

I'm not sure how you got that.

Probably because you compared how we should treat animal killers with putting down dogs that bite people.

I see. So if you had the misfortune to be born a cat instead of a human ten years is too much if someone shoots you for no reason? Interesting.

It's almost as if people don't consider cats and humans to be equivalent for some reason. I wonder why that is?

Ten years would be a minimum. I've always held the position that people that kill animals for fun should be locked away forever. Lock 'em up. Throw away the key.

Other than "because it makes me angry" (which I completely sympathize with) what reason do you have for this? Is there any reason beyond your own personal feelings? And if not, do you really think that's a good basis for law?

 

[welshdean]

Good points Akri. I declined to answer the questions Travis posed to me on the sole basis that I've seen him post many, many times and he's not himself. I thought I'd leave him to grieve.

 

[Akri]

Good points Akri. I declined to answer the questions Travis posed to me on the sole basis that I've seen him post many, many times and he's not himself. I thought I'd leave him to grieve.

I do think he should probably step away from the thread for a few days. But any notion I might have had about pulling my punches because he's grieving disappeared when he brought out the comparison to rape.

 

[angrysoba]

I'm surprised to hear that letting cats out is so frowned on in the US. I agree with Rolfe that in the UK, cats going in and out of the house is completely normal, in fact, I never knew that anyone objected until now.

Our cat Jezebel would go in and out of the catflap all the time, but she was the most timid cat in the world - a real scaredy cat! She would usually be terrorised by the neighbourhood cat, a big fat tabby, that seemed to beat up all the other cats.

Maybe it was cruel to let them go out and get into scraps and take in mice and birds and crap all over the neighbourhood (although I seem to remember that cat crap was not really a problem unlike dog crap, as they seemed to bury it or put it in inconspicuous locations), but I tended to think that that was how cats should be able to live.

As for people who think that humans are horrible; I think the reverse is true. When my grandad was young and his cats gave birth to too many kittens, he would shove them in a sack and hurl it in the river. Yes, kittens! The guy must have had a heart of stone, but then again he probably killed a fair few humans in his time as well.

I'm sorry but for me I want them in prison for at least ten years.

That's excessive. It would be to no or little end to lock people up for such a long period of time for killing pets.

 

[Rolfe]

Good points Akri. I declined to answer the questions Travis posed to me on the sole basis that I've seen him post many, many times and he's not himself. I thought I'd leave him to grieve.

This.

Rolfe.

 

[Akri]

Maybe it was cruel to let them go out and get into scraps and take in mice and birds and crap all over the neighbourhood (although I seem to remember that cat crap was not really a problem unlike dog crap, as they seemed to bury it or put it in inconspicuous locations), but I tended to think that that was how cats should be able to live.

And what about dogs? Should dogs be able to live like that as well?

I would really like to know why we have this double standard.

 

[angrysoba]

And what about dogs? Should dogs be able to live like that as well?

I would really like to know why we have this double standard.

I think it depends on the dog. Some dogs definitely should not be allowed to run around unattended. Where I grew up there were signs in the nearby fields saying that "sheep worriers" would be shot. Those sheep worriers would be dogs, not cats, and perhaps only occasionally drunken humans. It was certainly a good idea if you were a dog owner to keep your dog under control around the sheep. Letting them out unattended to run about would not have been a good idea.

 

[Akri]

I think it depends on the dog. Some dogs definitely should not be allowed to run around unattended. Where I grew up there were signs in the nearby fields saying that "sheep worriers" would be shot. Those sheep worriers would be dogs, not cats, and perhaps only occasionally drunken humans. It was certainly a good idea if you were a dog owner to keep your dog under control around the sheep. Letting them out unattended to run about would not have been a good idea.

What about in areas that don't have livestock?

I've lived in a lot of neighborhoods where it was considered acceptable to let your cat wander around freely, but I've never lived any place that treated dogs the same way. If a cat wandered into your yard the response was to either ignore it or try to pet it; if a dog wandered into your yard the response was to see if he was tagged so you could take him home. For some reason the opinion seems to be that cats are "supposed" to wander around the neighborhood without supervision, while dogs are "supposed" to always be under supervision (and preferably on a lead) when outside of their own yard.

 

[angrysoba]

What about in areas that don't have livestock?

What about them? I just gave an example of a place where it wouldn't happen and a reason. I think that what you may find with dogs as opposed to cats is that there may be multiple reasons for giving dogs less liberty. Dog attacks on adults and children are fairly common; cat attacks on humans less so. Cats don't usually wear muzzles for the same reason. All in all it is really not that surprising and no need to think of it as a "double standard". Cats and dogs are different.

I've lived in a lot of neighborhoods where it was considered acceptable to let your cat wander around freely, but I've never lived any place that treated dogs the same way.

I have. Ireland. And I often wished my relatives dogs were not allowed out everywhere. I didn't really care either way about the cats. That's because cats and dogs obviously behave differently.

If a cat wandered into your yard the response was to either ignore it or try to pet it; if a dog wandered into your yard the response was to see if he was tagged so you could take him home. For some reason the opinion seems to be that cats are "supposed" to wander around the neighborhood without supervision, while dogs are "supposed" to always be under supervision (and preferably on a lead) when outside of their own yard.

Pretty good suppositions in my opinion. I certainly don't object.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I'm sorry you lost your cat, Travis. I have a cat I dearly love, and I completely understand how you feel. It's disgusting that someone would do this.