• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

What do you do when your friends believe woo?

Well, as I may have mentioned before, I tend to have a "don't ask, don't tell" policy IRL. If someone doesn't insist on telling me about their woo beliefs, I won't challenge them about it.

If they do insist, well, it depends.

I might just tell them what I think about it, if it's something like a scam.

If it's some more religious or esoteric belief, OR if they insist on talking about politics, they might get a joke or two first. Like that I believe it's all a game, and my player just clicked on the toilet to send me there. Generally that seems to come across as less offensive or cause for a backfire. I dunno why, really, but believing in a player is actually less offensive to a believer than saying I don't believe in any god.

Then they might get a warning. I actually told someone that I'm moving to first class if they don't stop talking about politics in the train. Then I did, because I had actually bought a 1st class ticket for that talk.

And one warning is all they'll ever get. After that, I'll be brutally honest. And I don't matter who it is. I told mom about the rape rules in the bible when she was like, "but it's still some good rules, because people needed rules." Went over about as well as you'd expect talking about rape to a woman to go. I told grandma she ain't going anywhere when she had brain cancer.

Yes, I'm THAT kind of a flaming a-hole. If they can't take a hint, it's not my problem.
 
The best thing you can do is: don't force your own worldview up on them. Don't think you know it better, but listen and find out what the interesting points are in the ideas of the opponent. Just be friendly and learn from them. Maybe you learn something totally new. Be open minded.
 
Last edited:
Maartenn100 said:
The best thing you can do is: don't force your own worldview up on them. Don't think you know it better, but listen and find out what the interesting points are in the ideas of the opponent. Just be friendly and learn from them. Maybe you learn something totally new. Be open minded.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm open minded all right, but they still have to show the evidence. If they insist on having the talk, that is.

Being open minded doesn't mean being a gullible simpleton who'll believe everything just because they said it.

I've had someone, for example, try to convince me of IIRC the neuro-linguistic programming woo, and then back into "well, evidence isn't everything" when asked to make the case to me properly. In which case, hey, it's not me who's close minded, it's them being unable to make the case.
 
shroomigator said:
A friend recently asked me to look at some papers she had and give her my opinion. What followed was a trip down a rabbit hole of sovereign citizen claptrap that I had to decipher because my friend was about to spend a great deal of money on what they were offering.

This is the website: //actnowpma.info/PrivateMemberAssoc.html

In a nutshell, this guy has been marketing Private Membership Associations as a way for alternative health care practitioners to practice their trade without interference from licensing boards or the FDA.

He charges $6000 to draw up papers for a P.M.A. that he claims will, and I quote, be able to "Enjoy a general immunity to public laws, regulations and internal rules of local, state and federal administrative agencies (including, but not limited to, the FDA) that protect the public health."

So I give her my opinion, which is that the guy is a con artist.

Then she tells me that she isn't the only one, that others among our friends had already bought in.

So far I know of two friends who run alternative health businesses who paid this guy to draw up papers for them, and they are mad as hell with me right now because they love this guy and I say he's scamming them.

I don't feel like I can just sit idly by while some scammer rips off my friends. We've had clashes before, because my acceptance of and advocacy for vaccines and "western medicine" aka Science Based Medicine.

So how do I deal with friends who believe in woo without biting my tongue every time one of them mentions something I disagree with? These are people I like and respect. I value their friendship, but I don't want to sacrifice my ethics or commitment to the truth just to remain friends.
Click to expand...

You gave your opinion. Now just sit back and watch the train wreck. And if it's a really good friend, be there to help pick up the pieces, while not saying "I told you so".
 
Been down this road.
Most likely, they well know you're right by this point.
If they lash out at you it is likely only in anger at themselves. This might ruin your relationships long term, if only because they don't want to face their own shame.

You've done your part. The rest is up to them.
 
HansMustermann said:
Oh, I'm open minded all right, but they still have to show the evidence. If they insist on having the talk, that is.

Being open minded doesn't mean being a gullible simpleton who'll believe everything just because they said it.

I've had someone, for example, try to convince me of IIRC the neuro-linguistic programming woo, and then back into "well, evidence isn't everything" when asked to make the case to me properly. In which case, hey, it's not me who's close minded, it's them being unable to make the case.
Click to expand...

Wow. "Evidence isn't everything". Really? What else is there. Sounds like a swan song to me. I think that would be a deal breaker for any future conversations.
 
shroomigator said:
A friend recently asked me to look at some papers she had and give her my opinion. What followed was a trip down a rabbit hole of sovereign citizen claptrap that I had to decipher because my friend was about to spend a great deal of money on what they were offering.

This is the website: //actnowpma.info/PrivateMemberAssoc.html

In a nutshell, this guy has been marketing Private Membership Associations as a way for alternative health care practitioners to practice their trade without interference from licensing boards or the FDA.

He charges $6000 to draw up papers for a P.M.A. that he claims will, and I quote, be able to "Enjoy a general immunity to public laws, regulations and internal rules of local, state and federal administrative agencies (including, but not limited to, the FDA) that protect the public health."

So I give her my opinion, which is that the guy is a con artist.

Then she tells me that she isn't the only one, that others among our friends had already bought in.

So far I know of two friends who run alternative health businesses who paid this guy to draw up papers for them, and they are mad as hell with me right now because they love this guy and I say he's scamming them.

I don't feel like I can just sit idly by while some scammer rips off my friends. We've had clashes before, because my acceptance of and advocacy for vaccines and "western medicine" aka Science Based Medicine.

So how do I deal with friends who believe in woo without biting my tongue every time one of them mentions something I disagree with? These are people I like and respect. I value their friendship, but I don't want to sacrifice my ethics or commitment to the truth just to remain friends.
Click to expand...
How about suggesting that they take their legal documentation to a different but actual lawyer and see if they are actually legally correct. It's one thing paying this guy 6k, it's quite another getting in trouble with the FDA or whatever for breaking the law.

If it were me I'd want to ensure I was properly covered.
 
wasapi said:
Wow. "Evidence isn't everything". Really? What else is there. Sounds like a swan song to me. I think that would be a deal breaker for any future conversations.
Click to expand...

Wish I was kidding, but yeah, really, "Well, evidence isn't everything." But yeah, it tends to be a deal breaker. People tend to learn sooner or later to avoid crazy topics around me.
 
shroomigator said:
I think most of the anger springs from the fact that the original friend who showed me the papers backed out and charged back the payment. So now the bank is involved.

The rest of the group are pressuring her to explain herself, but she can only tell them I told her it was a scam. She's come around to the idea that the guy scammed her.

We're starting to think that the one who is screaming the loudest is in on it, hence all the noise.
Click to expand...
I'd be inclined to discuss with them why they think that evading laws and agencies that protect the public from harm is ethical. I realise that you will probably not win any friends, but you might get one or two of them reconsidering this approach to their work practices.

This from the link you gave.
Benefits of a Private Membership Association

1. Enjoy a general immunity to public laws, regulations and internal rules of local, state and federal administrative agencies (including, but not limited to, the FDA) that protect the public health​
 
paulhutch said:
If your freinds read this on the homepage ...


and still went ahead I think there's little you can do to help them.
Click to expand...
This is the disclaimer at the bottom of the website now.

Please Take Notice that: John Ellis, Sr., has never attended any accredited law school; does not have a Juris Doctor; never sat for any BAR Exam; and, is not now nor has ever been a member of any state, federal or foreign BAR Association; is not an attorney; does not give legal advice; and the above-stated is not intended to be and is not legal advice to or for anyone or any person, for any purpose whatsoever; John does not offer to represent any man, woman, or person for any purpose.

If you want legal advice or representation see an attorney​

Somewhat changed now from the version you quoted,

Notice

The Director of the PMA does not have a Juris Doctor; is not now nor has ever been a member of any local, state, federal or foreign BAR Association; and, is not an attorney.

The PMA Does Not Offer
To represent anyone or any person in any court.
To sign any pleading for or on behalf of anyone or any person that will be filed in any court.
To give anyone or any person “legal advice."​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom