VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

Hmmm, did or did not members of this forum contact her university suggesting VFF needed treatment? If that happened to me, I would harbour a level of hostility to this forum.

If you are going to keep raising that point, get it straight. I did not suggest to the counseling center that VfF needed treatment. I sent them a link to her website. Period. This has been explained to you numerous times, and I don't understand why you have such difficulty grasping it. It's not complicated.

If attempting to have a mental health professional take a look at the claims of a delusional young woman is harassment, well, then, I harassed her. There you have it. Finito.
 
Last edited:
Please do not degrade yourself by replying in your usual manner of "do not contact me unless it is through an attorney". My letter to you here is intended to answer some of the questions you have posed, and to help explain and clear out the matter, for your own convenience above all. And so I see no reason for you to interpret this as harassment against you, as I clearly only mean well.

Hi, Everyone! I usually post at StopVfF, but I'm replying to the quote above in this thread.

Anita's statement is the definition of narcissism. Who cares what she sees no reason for? The other person, in this case UncaYimmy, gets to have an opinion. His opinion needs to be honored, even if it's the craziest, stupidest opinion in the world; even if Anita disagrees. Her intentions simply don't matter.

I've seen too many examples that prove Anita doesn't accept the existence of other, separate people. People who have the same right to an opinion as she does, and whose opinions deserve the respect she continually demands for hers.

Her disregard for other peoples' boundaries alarms me. No one who behaves as she does is harmless; and her Alenara nonsense proves that she's harmful. anyway. I don't think good skepticism requires waiting until she harms someone in her current incarnation as VisionfromFantasy to conclude that she's a dangerous woo.

And the "degrade yourself" statement, well, I don't get that at all. What's degrading about using the law to compel what repeated requests can't?
 
I was thinking that perhaps you didn't give folks enough credit to see through the nonsense being promulgated by VfF.
I mean no disrespect to your points, Moochie, but I'm just going to respond from here rather than point by point because I think it encapsulates our very different perspectives.

The important thing to understand is that the members of this forum are not my target audience. I have no doubt nearly every skeptic here thinks her claims are bunk. Even the resident "woos" thinks she full of it. My website's target audience is the reader who has encountered Anita Ikonen, Alenara or VisionFromFeeling through sources where she entirely or mostly controlled the flow of information. About the only time I send people from here to my site is when they have some facts wrong, and I don't want to repeat them. I don't think I've ever sent a "believer" from here to StopVFF in order to convince them.

Note: The reason I throw in links like the above are for SEO (Search Engine Optimization) purposes. It's no accident where my site ranks for those keywords.

I'm not after the hardcore believers either. I doubt very seriously that anybody stands much of a chance of changing their minds. What I'm after is what I believe is the majority of the world who believe that the paranormal in some fashion is real. They believe that mixed in among the deluded and scam artists are "genuine" people with "real" abilities. The relative percentages vary, but most "regular" believers I know acknowledge the existence of deliberate fakes and the self-deluded.

I'm not interested in giving them a mini-lesson in skepticism. The reporter doing research for an article, the Meetup group organizer looking into a "healer" who contacted her, and businesses/universities doing their due diligence aren't coming to my site for a lesson. If they go to her site, they find a "4.0" science student "investigating" her "apparent accuracy" with seemingly tacit endorsement from a prominent skeptics group (the JREF) saying she deserves more testing.

When they come to my site they see a 350 year old alien in human form who believes she can live on air and light alone, talk to ghosts, detect your most recent meal, identify chemicals in sealed steel containers, and get high from looking at cannabis under an electron microscope. They see someone who has failed multiple tests, many of which she never mentions on her site. They also see someone who is apparently vindictive towards others. If they follow the "fan site" link from her website, they hopefully think, "She thinks this is a fan site?"

If they reach the conclusion that VFF is either deluded and/or a scam artist, then I've accomplished my job. I don't care what they think of me. I don't care what self-described skeptics think of me. I'm not asking anybody to pat me on the back and tell me how much I've contributed to skepticism because I'm not trying to contribute anything. I'm trying to keep one person from getting into a position where she can do even more harm.

I'm not "bullying" her because people need to find my site on their own. If they're not researching her, they don't find my site. If she never pursues a career in woo, then my site doesn't get used. The only loss is my time.

In an effort to be fair, my site offers discussion. I allow feedback on my blog posts. Without a doubt some of the discussions have gotten personal. That's a good thing because I think it shows VFF in her true light. It also lends credibility that a one-way lecture site does not. I know it runs the risk of alienating some people, but that risk outweighs the benefits.

As for paying attention to her here, look at the moderated VFF thread. In the last three months I made 11 posts, and almost every one was correcting her lies, misleading statements, or omissions of fact. I simply set the record straight and disengaged. By contrast she has made 32 posts despite being on suspension for 25% of the time.

I started this thread because of the ridiculous RA interview. That it has somehow become about me personally is not surprising. I'm pretty sure that if VFF and I had reversed genders, the situation would be viewed quite differently. If a man continued to send a woman repeated e-mails after she repeatedly told him not to (and blocked him on Skype and Facebook and told him he was risking a restraining order), people would be up in arms. If one of those e-mails said in effect, "I think I'm dying. If I suddenly stop posting, it's because I'm dead. Just know I LOVE YOU!" I bet people would be very concerned.

If a man repeatedly and publicly commented about a woman being an adulterer and wondering what her husband and children thought, people would get pretty pissed. If later that same man, despite being told never to contact her again, went to her YouTube account and left a comment about how wonderful her husband and children seemed, you'd be telling her to change the locks on her doors.

So, yeh, I'm most definitely a little testy about being called the aggressor here. I get a little riled up when people say that *I* am the one who is not reliable enough to be interviewed on a pre-recorded podcast. But at the end of the day, none of it really matters because my site does what I set out to do. That some people here despise me is irrelevant.

That people like you offer sincere suggestions for improvement is much appreciated. Please feel free to jump over to the StopVFF site or contact me personally to make specific suggestions about articles or blogs you think could be done better. As The MeaniesTM will attest, I have no problems taking constructive criticism or having my ideas questioned.
 
Last edited:
Note: The reason I throw in links like the above are for SEO (Search Engine Optimization) purposes.

Since the links here are nofollow, do you think it helps with SERP rank, or is it only for driving traffic directly? Just curious.
 
Since the links here are nofollow, do you think it helps with SERP rank, or is it only for driving traffic directly? Just curious.

The links are not really for driving traffic directly unless I am linking to some specific discussion or something else I want people to see. I don't want to launch into an SEO discussion, but nofollow is a recommendation from the site that the link is not an endorsement (for lack of a better word) from that site. It originated in response to blog-comments spam and forum spam.

The short answer is that Ask.com ignores nofollow, so that alone makes it worth the effort. It only takes me about 10 extra seconds, so I do it. Now for the longer answer.

The official stance of Google is that nofollow does not affect page rank. Others, myself included, have seen results that seem to indicate the contrary. It appears that the anchor text for nofollow links has some value even if the "reputation" from the linking site is not considered. The whole thing is kinda murky, and I don't trust Google to be entirely forthcoming. I wouldn't be if I were in their shoes.

Google Webmaster tools for the site indicate that it recognizes and follows the incoming links, which is consistent with the stated policy that if the page already exists, it follows the page. It also uses the anchor text for showing results here for those keywords. If the JREF ever turns off the automatic adding of nofollow tags (they are created dynamically at runtime), I'll be in great shape.

All in all it's worth the small amount of effort.
 
Last edited:
Gee, over 320 postings in a thread about VfF, and she is still on suspension and una ble to post anything herself. She seems to get tons of verbage and attention, without even needing to post anything here herself. That goes counter to the concept of "When she's quiet, my board and the VFF threads here are quiet". She can't get any quieter than being suspended for several weeks, and yet the banter about her continues unabated. Not that I am complaining, as I find the whole thing quite entertaining. VfF has become almost a soap opera for me. She is a certifiable wackjob, but I am compelled to tune in to see what fantastic claim or excuse she will come up with next. But it does make one wonder about who is encouraging whom.

It should be obvious from my sig that I not only am a member of StopVfF, I am a supporter of it as well. I may occasionally question a few aspects of the methods UncaYimmy uses on the site, but I support the purpose of the site, and the reasons for having it. Keep up the good work, UncaYimmy, even if some of us do occasionally disagree with some of the methods used. I think the service you are providing is a beneficial one.

I have no problem with people questioning my tactics. Of course, if I disagree, I'll argue with you. I rarely do things without due consideration, so I'll usually have an avalanche in response. :D

As for the VFF threads being quiet, what I said was that if VFF is quiet, we're quiet. She's not been quiet. She was on the RA show. She posted the recording of the private conversation she had with Jeff Wagg, and she added a big, bold quote from him on her website's study page that appears to be a tacit endorsement by Jeff (and now Remirol) that she should continue her "investigation." Have you seen it? Oh, and this morning I received a 3,501 word e-mail from her.
 
That was Wednesday night. I have not heard back from her. However, this evening she posted a comment on my YouTube video saying how cute my children are and wishing my family the best. This, of course, has made me once again strongly consider your advice.

I received the requested information Sunday morning along with a 3,501 rambling essay. I won't repost it here, but I will tell you that I was told, "Your fight against me is a fight against critical thinking."

In light of this revelation and seeing the quote on her website from Jeff Wagg, JREF Communications and Outreach Coordinator, that reads, "Skepticism is exploration, not debunking," I am seriously considering taking down my website and joining VFF in her investigation. After all, I have been assured that she "really, really, really did see Dr. Carlson's missing kidney."
 
Eventually there will come a point where nobody wants to expend the time or resources anymore. Sometimes that will be after the first test; sometimes that will be before the first test (breatharian claims, for example). At that point it can be said that "There have been enough failures so far that we are not interested in continuing testing of this claim."

Yet you don't believe UY has reached this stage? That he doesn't want anyone else to waste their time as he has done?
 
Yet you don't believe UY has reached this stage? That he doesn't want anyone else to waste their time as he has done?

UY needs VFF just as much as she needs him. Without her, he has no paper tiger to slay; without him, she has no tireless promoter. Note how he keeps us up-to-date about her private emails, even though it would be trivial to add a client-side filter and block them completely.
 
I rather doubt he posts them all, I've not noticed them even frequently. Trivial you say, but I wouldn't know how to do it (and my ITT ex-husband couldn't figure out my mail program either). Are you claiming that UY was adrift and useless before VFF came around?
 
Today, at 3:55am EDT:

Oh, and this morning I received a 3,501 word e-mail from her.

I rather doubt he posts them all, I've not noticed them even frequently.

See above.

Trivial you say, but I wouldn't know how to do it (and my ITT ex-husband couldn't figure out my mail program either).
UncaYimmy is quite technically competent WRT various forms of Internet communication. It is certainly trivial for him.

Are you claiming that UY was adrift and useless before VFF came around?
That question is completely unrelated to anything I have said.
 
UY needs VFF just as much as she needs him. Without her, he has no paper tiger to slay; without him, she has no tireless promoter.

Today, at 3:55am EDT:
That question is completely unrelated to anything I have said.

If he needs her, then he needed her before he met her, therefore his need was unfulfilled before he met her.
 
Are you claiming that UY was adrift and useless before VFF came around?

If he needs her, then he needed her before he met her, therefore his need was unfulfilled before he met her.

That's some pretty bad logic there -- what if he didn't conceive of the need prior to meeting her? Regardless, your above question still bears no relation to anything I have said.
 
<snipped for brevity>

So, yeh, I'm most definitely a little testy about being called the aggressor here. I get a little riled up when people say that *I* am the one who is not reliable enough to be interviewed on a pre-recorded podcast. But at the end of the day, none of it really matters because my site does what I set out to do. That some people here despise me is irrelevant.

That people like you offer sincere suggestions for improvement is much appreciated. Please feel free to jump over to the StopVFF site or contact me personally to make specific suggestions about articles or blogs you think could be done better. As The MeaniesTM will attest, I have no problems taking constructive criticism or having my ideas questioned.

Fair enough, UY. I sincerely hope no one here despises you -- I certainly don't. When all's said and done, I'm glad you're there, doing what you're doing, and you have my continued support, for what it's worth.


Cheers,

M.
 
UY needs VFF just as much as she needs him. Without her, he has no paper tiger to slay; without him, she has no tireless promoter. Note how he keeps us up-to-date about her private emails, even though it would be trivial to add a client-side filter and block them completely.

That this thread has seemingly become about me rather than the RA interview and its repercussions is disappointing, but considering the context, your comment does deserve a response. If the mods feel it is more appropriate in the General moderated thread, I hope they will move it there. I reply here only for context.

First, I have not shared all of the e-mails, PMs, Skype chats, Facebook messages, and other contacts I have received and still do not. By that I mean not only have I not shared the content, but I haven't shared their existence. I have stated this repeatedly. If you are unwilling to do the basic research, the skeptical thing, at least in my brand of skepticism, is to ask rather than make unfounded assertions.

Second, I have not blocked her e-mails for several good reasons. Being an IT professional yourself, you should be fully aware that it's simply not possible. While I can block her e-mail address or any e-mail coming from her domain, the prevalence of free e-mail accounts makes bypassing filters a trivial matter. And just like spammers, she can use fake e-mail addresses.

Truth of the matter is I think it's important for my own safety, both personal and legal, to be aware of every e-mail she sends to me. She has threatened me with lawsuits and police action, which in large part prompted my formal repeated requests that she cease and desist contacting me. She also offered to have a layover in Phoenix while traveling to Los Angeles so she could come visit me. I don't want unread e-mails in the trash bin that read, "Since you're ignoring me, I am going to stop by your house so we can talk this out. We used to be good friends, and I mean you no harm. Unless I hear otherwise, I will see you next Saturday." While she has not sent such an e-mail, I cannot say with any degree of certainty that she wouldn't.

It's only prudent for anyone who tells someone not to contact them except through an attorney to be aware of any and all attempts otherwise, especially when that person sends e-mails that read in effect, "I think I'm dying. If I suddenly stop posting, it's because I'm dead. I just wanted you to know that I LOVE YOU!"

Thank you for your time. It is appreciated.
 
Second, I have not blocked her e-mails for several good reasons. Being an IT professional yourself, you should be fully aware that it's simply not possible. While I can block her e-mail address or any e-mail coming from her domain, the prevalence of free e-mail accounts makes bypassing filters a trivial matter. And just like spammers, she can use fake e-mail addresses.

Twaddle. Doing all of the above requires effort and requires that the person care enough to do so, be informed and be sufficiently obsessed enough to continue creating proxy emails despite being informed that they have been blocked. Continuing to publicize the existence of these emails, on the other hand, simply works 100% against the purpose of "getting her to not send any more", as it provides her confirmation that you are reading them.

In my experience over the past 25 years, it has always been sufficient for me to inform a person that you have blocked emails from them, and then they send perhaps one more from a proxy email just to see if you'll respond. When you fail to respond and/or acknowledge that you've received it, the matter is done.

Truth of the matter is I think it's important for my own safety, both personal and legal, to be aware of every e-mail she sends to me.
Additional twaddle. See earlier remarks regarding "paper tiger". If you quit responding to her, she would quit contacting you. Why don't you just do that instead of making a huge deal out of the fact that she continues to do so?

I don't want unread e-mails in the trash bin that read, "Since you're ignoring me, I am going to stop by your house so we can talk this out. We used to be good friends, and I mean you no harm. Unless I hear otherwise, I will see you next Saturday." While she has not sent such an e-mail, I cannot say with any degree of certainty that she wouldn't.
At which point you have her arrested for trespassing and file a restraining order. Seriously, dude. You are not this unaware of how the legal system works. You are not so foolish as to believe that the scenario described above is anything other than a remote corner-case possibility, even disregarding your knowledge of how the legal system works.

If you really wanted her to go away, she would be gone by now. I do not think you want her to go away, and this is why you are deliberately pursuing ineffective means of doing this, rather than taking effective action.
 
It's only prudent for anyone who tells someone not to contact them except through an attorney to be aware of any and all attempts otherwise, especially when that person sends e-mails that read in effect, "I think I'm dying. If I suddenly stop posting, it's because I'm dead. I just wanted you to know that I LOVE YOU!"



Anita speaking here ~ "In spite of this disrespectful column, I will continue valuing our friendship. I learn a great deal from you, as you too have taken that big step from woo and into Skepticism. Many Skeptics turn their hatred of woo against me personally and are making it exceedingly uncomfortable for me to join them as Skeptics, but I know a good thing when I see it, and no amount of insults or personal attack is ever going to turn me away and force me back into woo."

What's wrong with this picture?

The latter comment is pulled from Mark Edward's blog on "sex in the seance room" which Anita has decided is aimed at her. She confessed to being involved with a "prominent skeptic". http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/03/sex-in-the-seance-room/#comment-20044

 
Mark Edward also replied to her post which basically said that his post was all about her and that, he too, had flirted with her.
I ended up dating a Skeptic out of mutual attraction, and I do believe it was he who made the first hint. And at the risk of having you censor this out, you yourself have shown and indicated plenty of interest in me.

This is part of his answer. The reast can be seen by following the link below.


13.Mark Edward says:
April 6, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Okay. It’s TIME TO RELEASE THE KRAKEN!Despite rants to the contrary, the original blog I wrote was not all about Anita Ikonen, It never has been. She’s free to fantasize that it was if it makes her feel better and pushes her closer to her stated goal of “falsifying herself.” She’s not the only gamer in town.

http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/03/sex-in-the-seance-room/
 
Mark Edward also replied to her post which basically said that his post was all about her and that, he too, had flirted with her.
I ended up dating a Skeptic out of mutual attraction, and I do believe it was he who made the first hint. And at the risk of having you censor this out, you yourself have shown and indicated plenty of interest in me.

This is part of his answer. The reast can be seen by following the link below.


13.Mark Edward says:
April 6, 2010 at 11:54 pm
Okay. It’s TIME TO RELEASE THE KRAKEN!Despite rants to the contrary, the original blog I wrote was not all about Anita Ikonen, It never has been. She’s free to fantasize that it was if it makes her feel better and pushes her closer to her stated goal of “falsifying herself.” She’s not the only gamer in town.

http://skepticblog.org/2010/04/03/se...e-seance-room/

Mark Edward is NOT the skeptic that Anita is having an fling with. He clearly says that his blog was NOT about her, but she can fantasize about it if she wants to.
 
Mark Edward also replied to her post which basically said that his post was all about her and that, he too, had flirted with her.
I ended up dating a Skeptic out of mutual attraction, and I do believe it was he who made the first hint. And at the risk of having you censor this out, you yourself have shown and indicated plenty of interest in me.

Poor guy. He probably just smiled and said "Hi" to her. :rolleyes:
 

Back
Top Bottom