Vision From Feeling

[Locknar]

I would say that she has never said any such thing before. Did I miss something?

Surly she jests Nope...you didn't miss anything. I'd say this is her looking for a "out", nothing more.

 

[desertgal]

I had an e-mail exchange with Anita. Here's something she said that I found very interesting:

I am of course more than expecting to find out in my investigations that there is of course nothing paranormal taking place. In fact, the accuracy of what I perceive might after all not be as good as it has appeared to have been in past experiences. All of this I have already said on the JREF Forum...

I would say that she has never said any such thing before. Did I miss something?

No, you didn't miss anything. She said, from the beginning of this thread, that she expected that her "ability" would be either ESP or synesthesia, and she vehemently maintained that she has always had "confirmed apparent accuracy",and whatever the outcome of the test, her "perceptions" would continue (with, of course, "confirmed apparent accuracy", which made me wonder why bother testing at all?). She said that, if one of her perceptions proved to be inaccurate, she would accept that - but then denied every inaccuracy that was pointed out to her.

"Appeared to have been in past experiences" - boy, that's changing her tune. It's comforting, though - I had a pain just below my sternum this morning, and I thought it might be my lower intestine, but, now that Anita is waffling, I can safely assume it might have just been heartburn. Probably from all the uncommon bacteria in my stomach.

I'm just surprised that she didn't post results of her "survey" with several diagnoses of schizotypal disorder, psychosis, and depression. She really dug those terms.

ETA: Her above statement seems rather odd for someone who is proposing to draw babies in the womb.

 

[Old man]

Surly she jests

Originally Posted by UncaYimmy
I would say that she has never said any such thing before. Did I miss something?

Nope...you didn't miss anything. I'd say this is her looking for a "out", nothing more.

She's given lip service to it, but she's always maintained an attitude that led us to believe that she was unwilling to accept that conclusion.

However, I think she's starting realize that we're right, and it's hard for her ("brilliant student", 4.0 GPA, 'skeptical scientist', ya know) to just come out and say " Yep, guys, I was wrong. I never thought this could happen to me."

 

[TheSkepticCanuck]

She's given lip service to it, but she's always maintained an attitude that led us to believe that she was unwilling to accept that conclusion.

However, I think she's starting realize that we're right, and it's hard for her ("brilliant student", 4.0 GPA, 'skeptical scientist', ya know) to just come out and say " Yep, guys, I was wrong. I never thought this could happen to me."

I agree. I'd have a great deal more respect for her if she did actually come out and say she was wrong and sound sincere about it. Mistakes happen, but it takes someone of real character to admit it publicly.

 

[Old man]

I agree. I'd have a great deal more respect for her if she did actually come out and say she was wrong and sound sincere about it. Mistakes happen, but it takes someone of real character to admit it publicly.

I think we all would, but I know that I'd have a hard time doing it, and I know that I can be wrong.

Nobody judges us harder than we do ourselves.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Dear Skeptics,
It's been Snow Day today and no classes. It's the coziest day of the year, I've been in my pyjamas all day and after studying 8 hours straight I thought I could take some time to type up the study procedure, so I did. Here it is, enjoy StudyProcedure - Preliminary Version 1
Actually I would like everyone to do what they are good at: criticize it to little pieces, so that we can improve on it.

This Thursday I attend my second meeting with the local Winston Salem skeptics group.

Wednesday last week I received another e-mail from the IIG West where they encourage me to conduct the study in order to answer some of our questions regarding the experiences behind my paranormal claim, and to continue working with the local skeptics group as well. The IIG and me are still working towards arriving at a final test protocol between us, and we all agree that the study is the best next step at this point. If all goes well (which means, if I am able to keep up with studying this week to allow it), the study might even be held this weekend!

 

[Uncayimmy]

I don't get it, Anita, I really don't. You say you're going to the next skeptics meeting. Why don't you just do it there like I described a month ago?

As it stands, your proposal is very unlikely to ever happen. First, good luck in trying to get permission from the owners of the mall to conduct your study. What you are proposing is to use mall space for *free* so that you can distract shoppers from shopping. Unless the owner of the mall is a skeptic or psychic, they are not going to agree to it.

Besides, trying to solicit people in the mall is a crap shoot. You have no idea if you'll even have any takers. I doubt you'll get more than a couple at best. This is why you should use the skeptics group. They are there already, and they have an interest in seeing you tested. They might even bring a friend or family member to give you sufficient numbers. If for whatever illogical reason that won't work, then at least advertise on campus and on Craigslist for volunteers so you KNOW you'll have somebody show up (or not).

You leave yourself a great big out with your "recorded" disturbances. Big surprise. First off, everyone who takes notes must hand them over to the Keeper of the Paperwork immediately upon completion. Second, add some more data to the form. If you have concerns about the environment, write them down on that particular form along with your confidence level about your accuracy.

Better still, do it at the skeptics meeting where you can control the environment to a large degree rather than leaving such a subjective method of making excuses.

Also, I don't see why you need four volunteers. What benefits are you gaining besides making it more difficult to get enough people to help you test?

Basically, you took a decent protocol and trashed it in such a way that you make the study even more difficult to arrange and less likely to ever happen.

 

[Akhenaten]

Today:

Dear Skeptics,
It's been Snow Day today and no classes. It's the coziest day of the year, I've been in my pyjamas all day and after studying 8 hours straight I thought I could take some time to type up the study procedure, so I did. Here it is, enjoy.

14 Dec 08:

VFF,
Why don't you try Old Man's suggestion of going to the mall, and just asking people to confirm their appendectomy?

I would suggest:
- You go to the mall with a clipboard, and a lined sheet of paper with three columns on the right with Yes, No, Would not say.
- When you see someone with an appendectomy, you write down: Elderly gentleman with red jacket, appendectomy.
- You approach the gentleman, and say something like: For a science project at school/college I would like to ask you if you have had an appendectomy, sir.
- You tick the appropriate column.

Appendectomies are relatively common, I think rather innocent (I would not dare walk up to a man and bluntly ask about their vasectomy), and they are very easily confirmed.
Things like pain in neck vertebrae or cramped up intestines are too vague, I would say.

Would this be doable?

Femke:
Nice to meet you. I absolutely love your suggestion, because in the test nothing psychic is mentioned in any way. However I would not dare do this by myself. Maybe someone from my local skeptics group would join me both for moral support and also by being there could verify the results. This is the single most productive suggestion that has been posted on this Forum thread! I hope to hear from you again!

The last two quotes from over five weeks ago represent the beginnings of The Study™. Typing up a Study Procedure™ in some spare time during your day off hasn't advanced things one iota.

Actually I would like everyone to do what they are good at: criticize it to little pieces, so that we can improve on it.

In other words, you want us to write a procedure for you. I won't be taking part in that particular exercise, but you can rely on good ol' Pharaoh to offer a critique. It's going to be a biggie, so please try to be patient. Perhaps you could read the thread again while you wait.

This Thursday I attend my second meeting with the local Winston Salem skeptics group.

Why?

Wednesday last week I received another e-mail from the IIG West where they encourage me to conduct the study in order to answer some of our questions regarding the experiences behind my paranormal claim, and to continue working with the local skeptics group as well.

As pointed out above, The Study™ was proposed in mid December, and has been discussed here continuously since then, yet you only seem to have finally reacted to the suggestion when it was made last Wednesday. I know you will have an explanation for this delay, and I look forward to being entertained by it.

BTW, I have another question regarding the bolded bit in the quote above. It seems at odds with this statement from your OP:

Unlike many who are under the impression that they have a psychic ability, I am very willing to discuss this openly and to subject my ability to scrutiny.

What happened that we gave up on the non-paranormal explanation?

The IIG and me are still working towards arriving at a final test protocol between us, and we all agree that the study is the best next step at this point.

This is still an exaggeration, no matter how many times you repeat it. What the IIG told you in December, and what everyone else has been telling you for months, is that you need to come up with a specific claim before any kind of investigation, study, test, trial or procedure can be undertaken by anyone but yourself.

You appear unable to realise that whomever you approach to assist you with a <insert synonym for "study">, the first thing they're likely to ask is "What can you do?", and until you can answer this question in specific and unequivocal terms, you aren't making any progress at all.

Again stop insisting that the IIG are working with you. All they're doing is telling you to produce a testable claim, not "working [with you] to towards arriving at a final test protocol".

If all goes well (which means, if I am able to keep up with studying this week to allow it), the study might even be held this weekend!

Skeptics 1 - 4 are vapourware, a venue with appropriate permissions has yet to be arranged, the equipment required for The Study™ is to appear by magic and your Study Procedure™ looks like it was written by a shabti. I think your studies are the least of your problems.


Finally, before you instruct me to go and read your Study Procedure™, allow me to point out that I already have, and my detailed comments on it are upcoming.

 

[Akhenaten]

<snip good stuff>

Basically, you took a decent protocol and trashed it in such a way that you make the study even more difficult to arrange and less likely to ever happen.

As the author of said trashed procedure, I wonder how long VfF will keep quoting you (bless your heart) on her website as some kind of mentor.

It seems that this latest non-development is what desertgal would describe as VfF doing whatever is necessary to sustain her delusions.

 

[Locknar]

This thread has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion...seems about over now.

 

[skeen]

I'm bored of her now.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

I notice the moderated thread has not had another entry by VfF. What a surprise!

 

[Ashles]

Dear Skeptics,
It's been Snow Day today and no classes. It's the coziest day of the year, I've been in my pyjamas all day and after studying 8 hours straight I thought I could take some time to type up the study procedure, so I did. Here it is, enjoy StudyProcedure - Preliminary Version 1
Actually I would like everyone to do what they are good at: criticize it to little pieces, so that we can improve on it.

Do you know what might help with that?

The results from the 'survey'.

I know it was only (almost) three weeks ago but some details might be helpful. What did you see, what didn't you see, what (if anything) did you learn, what new limitations might we expect to see added...

 

[desertgal]

It seems that this latest non-development is what desertgal would describe as VfF doing whatever is necessary to sustain her delusions.

Well, I would say that, but my mind is still spinning from reading this protocol. I expected she would tweak Unca's proposed protocol, but this is almost incomprehensible. I thought this was supposed to be a study of Anita's alleged "ability", but all I see is that she wants to ask 4 skeptics to give up their time so she can record her "impressions".

Shoot, I can go to a mall and record my impressions, too, and probably be fairly accurate-doesn't mean I have any special abilities other than my eyesight and keen observation. And why is she doing this in a mall? Just go to the skeptics meeting and "read" them.

More than 2 months of endless walls o'test, and the end result is, apparently, a proposed study of Anita's ability to cold read. Big whoop.

I'm also baffled by this sentence:

If the volunteer leaves early, more cold reading becomes available. All I can suggest at this time is that claimant and skeptic-4 in these cases “try” not to look at the volunteer anymore, because claimant and skeptic-4 should be allowed some more time to fill in their lasting impressions on the forms before handing these in. It is not a formal test and does not need to be designed as such.

Is she verifying that this study is going to consist of cold reading? Why would "more cold reading become available" if the volunteer leaves? And how does one "try not to look" at a volunteer who has already left?

This thread has been like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

I was thinking more like a descent into the abyss of Anita's mind.

 

[Ashles]

Dear Skeptics,
It's been Snow Day today and no classes. It's the coziest day of the year, I've been in my pyjamas all day and after studying 8 hours straight I thought I could take some time to type up the study procedure, so I did. Here it is, enjoy StudyProcedure - Preliminary Version 1

I only get a blank window when I open that.

Anita - would be possible at any point to describe what you claim to be able to do, and with what reliability?

For example you could say:

I can look at a clothed person from a distance of XXX and identify (insert examples of 5 unseen ailments) without either myself or the subject speaking. I can correctly identify if the subject does or does not have these ailments in at least 10 out of 20 subjects.

Be specific. Set parameters.

Go on, have a go.

Stop telling us what you claim to have done, tell us what you claim you can do.

And if you think you have already done this, then that is the main problem right there.

 

[Ashles]

Well, I would say that, but my mind is still spinning from reading this protocol. I expected she would tweak Unca's proposed protocol, but this is almost incomprehensible. I thought this was supposed to be a study of Anita's alleged "ability", but all I see is that she wants to ask 4 skeptics to give up their time so she can record her "impressions".

I can't read the protocol yet but it sounds like it is proposed to take place in a mall.

Is this intended to be 'The Survey' Mark II, in which Anita can correct errors made last time that rendered it so hopeless that we haven't been allowed to even know what happened?
Is 'The Survey' simply going to be rerun until it gives results Anita likes?

 

[tsig]

I can't read the protocol yet but it sounds like it is proposed to take place in a mall.

Is this intended to be 'The Survey' Mark II, in which Anita can correct errors made last time that rendered it so hopeless that we haven't been allowed to even know what happened?
Is 'The Survey' simply going to be rerun until it gives results Anita likes?

It will run till we get tired of the will she/won't she.

 

[desertgal]

I can't read the protocol yet but it sounds like it is proposed to take place in a mall.

Is this intended to be 'The Survey' Mark II, in which Anita can correct errors made last time that rendered it so hopeless that we haven't been allowed to even know what happened?
Is 'The Survey' simply going to be rerun until it gives results Anita likes?

In a nutshell, Anita is proposing to set up two locations in a mall-out of sight of one another - and use 4 skeptics to carry out the study. Skeptic 1 will remain at the first location, greet volunteers, and have them fill out paperwork-information page, volunteer form, claimant's form, skeptic's form. Skeptic #2 walks the volunteer to the second location, with the claimant and skeptic forms, where Anita and Skeptics #3 and #4 are waiting. Anita and Skeptic #4 observe the volunteer, and write down their "lingering answers and impressions". Skeptic #1 is in charge of the volunteer's forms, and Skeptic #3 is the Keeper of the Paperwork-i.e. the sacred observations of claimant and Skeptic #4. There may also be a Skeptic #5, if Skeptic #3 feels overwhelmed by the burden of the Paperwork and wants to share. Skeptics and claimant will meet at a later date to analyze paperwork.

As Unca noted, Anita gave herself an "out" in the procedure, and she does not specify precisely what her claim is, just that she will observe the volunteer and note her impressions.

 

[Ashles]

In a nutshell, Anita is proposing to set up two locations in a mall-out of sight of one another - and use 4 skeptics to carry out the study. Skeptic 1 will remain at the first location, greet volunteers, and have them fill out paperwork-information page, volunteer form, claimant's form, skeptic's form. Skeptic #2 walks the volunteer to the second location, with the claimant and skeptic forms, where Anita and Skeptics #3 and #4 are waiting. Anita and Skeptic #4 observe the volunteer, and write down their "lingering answers and impressions". Skeptic #1 is in charge of the volunteer's forms, and Skeptic #3 is the Keeper of the Paperwork-i.e. the sacred observations of claimant and Skeptic #4. There may also be a Skeptic #5, if Skeptic #3 feels overwhelmed by the burden of the Paperwork and wants to share. Skeptics and claimant will meet at a later date to analyze paperwork.

As Unca noted, Anita gave herself an "out" in the procedure, and she does not specify precisely what her claim is, just that she will observe the volunteer and note her impressions.

Thanks for that.
So no actual specific claim then? Just 'impressions' and no agreed judging of what is deemed a hit or a miss?

Incidentally, I thought previously Anita had only had one tentative maybe from a skeptic.
Have her local skeptic group agreed to help out in greater numbers? Is anyone here in contact with them? Do any of them post here?
Is there any way we will get assurance they are skeptics and not, say, friends, family members or imaginary people?
I believe Anita originally said at least one of the skeptics would have to agree to be identified to confirm the study. Is that still the case?

(Sorry for asking but I just don't know why I can't see the protocol link - probably sodding Websense again)

 

[Moochie]

In a nutshell, Anita is proposing to set up two locations in a mall-out of sight of one another - and use 4 skeptics to carry out the study. Skeptic 1 will remain at the first location, greet volunteers, and have them fill out paperwork-information page, volunteer form, claimant's form, skeptic's form. Skeptic #2 walks the volunteer to the second location, with the claimant and skeptic forms, where Anita and Skeptics #3 and #4 are waiting. Anita and Skeptic #4 observe the volunteer, and write down their "lingering answers and impressions". Skeptic #1 is in charge of the volunteer's forms, and Skeptic #3 is the Keeper of the Paperwork-i.e. the sacred observations of claimant and Skeptic #4. There may also be a Skeptic #5, if Skeptic #3 feels overwhelmed by the burden of the Paperwork and wants to share. Skeptics and claimant will meet at a later date to analyze paperwork.

As Unca noted, Anita gave herself an "out" in the procedure, and she does not specify precisely what her claim is, just that she will observe the volunteer and note her impressions.

Hmm... This looks like a job for


ClericalMan!


Song

I am ClericalMan

Whose sacred trust is to keep the pencils sharpened

To record the mystical musings of VisionFromFeeling

To keep those senses reeling

In a mall somewhere near you!


I am ClericalMan

Forever scribbling "Anita's" dribblings

Like a devoted stall master at the track

Collecting horse manure

In a sacred sack.


M.