Vision From Feeling

[Ashles]

Unca, that was a weird post. Did you just find the smiley toolbar?

 

[Uncayimmy]

Unca, that was a weird post. Did you just find the smiley toolbar?

Well, Anita is a visual person, so I figured it might help. Or maybe I was just being goofy because I am running out of sensible things to say.

 

[Ashles]

Well, Anita is a visual person, so I figured it might help. Or maybe I was just being goofy because I am running out of sensible things to day.

Well I understand that.

I really don't know where to go with this claim any more.

It has become an exercise in "How can Anita avoid any testing or talking about specifics"?

In many ways I think it has been an excellent example of skeptical analyisis of a Paranormal claim.

Anita has been far above average in moving goalposts, adding new claims, introducing restrictions, avoiding tests, modifying protocols, delaying revealing results, providing unevidenced stories, remembering misses as hits, using pseudoscientific terms, evading specifics...

But it all came to naught when pinned down by skeptics.

The stories remain just words.
The abilities remain just words.
The tests and studies remain just words.

The claim

Remains

Just words.

 

[TheSkepticCanuck]

In many ways I think it has been an excellent example of skeptical analyisis of a Paranormal claim.

I agree wholeheartedly! I have learned much about how to skeptically analyze a paranormal / illogical claim.

 

[Uncayimmy]

The claim

Remains

Just words.

That would have been so much more poignant had you used a smiley.

 

[Hokulele]

 

[Ashles]

That would have been so much more poignant had you used a smiley.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I just love this place.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

If it wouldn't get me accused of kissing up to authority, I would so nominate that! For...Best Use of Smilies in a Mini-Series!

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Quick post to say that JackalGirl is one of the people I learned from, I believe on this thread, about testing paranormal claims. Just wanted to include her on the list.

 

[Gmonster2]

Crystal contradiction?

This is a direct quote from the VFF site.

I was born with this ability, but at the age of 14 I came across a store where I saw a quartz crystal for the very first time. I was immediately drawn to it without knowing what they were and it was love at first sight. I bought one and a book that taught how to use crystals. One of the exercises described how you can increase your sensitivity to crystals by spending time holding the tip of the quartz crystal over the palm of your hand until you feel something. I practised for many days, until suddenly one day I felt and saw a cool, blue beam coming from the tip of the crystal. I got other types of crystals of different colors and spent time holding them in my hands, and developed a sense of feeling that was distinct for each of them. Eventually I was so good at feeling the different crystals that I no longer felt a need to hold them, I would feel all of them just by knowing where they were.

Coveredinbeeees post #1010:
That is a wonderful test protocol and thank you. I look forward to trying this with crystals, after all they are what have the strongest "vibrational signature" and are what I trained myself up with in the very beginning years ago. I will definitely look into this, meanwhile the main claim of medical perceptions and its upcoming study remain my first priority, but the crystal identification test will definitely also receive attention. If I am very effective (although this is getting ahead of ourselves) I may also be able to distinguish the different types of crystals by their vibrational signature. There are many options here to look into, thank you for bringing it up!

Anita can u explain the contradiction here pls?

 

[tsig]

If that judge was right about the existence of scientific support for paranormal claims then we should be very disappointed with the lack of progress made by parapsychology since that time. Of course we could blame that on conspiracies and tenacious paradigms but then where are the technological applications? What are the odds any will emerge from Anita’s claims?

And yes, you do have to be able to come up with good ad hoc explanations for apparent failure so as to protect your delusion or deception. Also note how Hydrick “failed” at his first attempt to turn the pages. I heard Derren Brown talking about how mediums like to lower expectations about their own abilities as an easy escape when things don’t go as expected. I think with Hydrick there is a bit of that as well as a showmanship element. What’s the bet Anita’s “abilities” will prove unreliable under scrutiny despite the accuracy she has claimed?

Anita has followed the usual story arc of woos here:

They come riding in on a great white horse claiming to slay dragons and after a few bolts from skeptics leave on foot and tattered mumbling something about how they may have once stepped on a lizard.

 

[desertgal]

Quick post to say that JackalGirl is one of the people I learned from, I believe on this thread, about testing paranormal claims. Just wanted to include her on the list.

And, bless her heart, if JackalGirl didn't call it right at the very beginning:

Post #70:

"And let me see if I understand this: no matter what the outcome of the test, you will believe that you have this ability. Right?

Why bother testing?

You are unethical and unscientific. I predict that eventually you will be dispensing medical advice because you will never really test yourself, afraid to discover that you are actually not all that special.

I will no longer participate in this thread. Good luck to your patients."

 

[Moochie]

I don't suspect deception about her identity or her nationality. I do see the contradictions in her claims, but I believe that can be attributed more to her delusional state than deliberate deception.

IOW, I don't think Anita is trying to "fool the skeptics" in the way that, say, Creekfreak or Historian did. I think she's trying to make the skeptics believe in her claims to reinforce the "reality" of her delusions to herself. Course, since her delusions aren't reality, she's got to dodge and backtrack and manipulate her fantasy to fit, and that's when the contradictions appear.



I agree. I warned Anita some posts ago that many people, now and in her future, aren't going to have a lot of patience with the fact that she is delusional-playing people for fools is going to cost her, whatever the motivation. She chooses not to listen to that advice. C'est la vie.

ETA: There is no reason to think that she is being deceptive about her identity and/or her nationality. Keep in mind, it's one thing to get on the Internet in a delusional state and spin a fantasy in the hopes that people will believe you - but identity theft is a whole other matter. I think it would probably be wiser for everyone to cease with that line of thought since it is, in fact, accusing Anita of a crime without solid evidence to back the accusation up.

I had a quick look at her Facebook account, under the name "Anita Ikonen," and it looks as though she has no "friends" at her school. The friends that are listed seem to be people from this forum.


M.

 

[Moochie]

I wondered earlier why so many intelligent people were entertaining such a patently absurd claim but I don't think we can say anyone has been taken for a ride. I have really enjoyed to see how people go about analysing Anita's claims as well as trying to understand why/if she believes what she claims. In short, it's been entertaining and educational.

Yes, I think people here proceeded on an "as if" basis, in an attempt to have the person state as clearly as possible just what it is they are claiming, and as we have seen, "Anita" fails dismally to make "his/her" case. As of right now, I don't know if I believe anything this person has said.


M.

 

[calebprime]

This is a direct quote from the VFF site.

I was born with this ability, but at the age of 14 I came across a store where I saw a quartz crystal for the very first time. I was immediately drawn to it without knowing what they were and it was love at first sight. I bought one and a book that taught how to use crystals. One of the exercises described how you can increase your sensitivity to crystals by spending time holding the tip of the quartz crystal over the palm of your hand until you feel something. I practised for many days, until suddenly one day I felt and saw a cool, blue beam coming from the tip of the crystal. I got other types of crystals of different colors and spent time holding them in my hands, and developed a sense of feeling that was distinct for each of them. Eventually I was so good at feeling the different crystals that I no longer felt a need to hold them, I would feel all of them just by knowing where they were.

Coveredinbeeees post #1010:
That is a wonderful test protocol and thank you. I look forward to trying this with crystals, after all they are what have the strongest "vibrational signature" and are what I trained myself up with in the very beginning years ago. I will definitely look into this, meanwhile the main claim of medical perceptions and its upcoming study remain my first priority, but the crystal identification test will definitely also receive attention. If I am very effective (although this is getting ahead of ourselves) I may also be able to distinguish the different types of crystals by their vibrational signature. There are many options here to look into, thank you for bringing it up!

Anita can u explain the contradiction here pls?

The apparent contradiction, as I see it, is that the first blue passage was all about imagination--getting good at imagination.

The second is about testing objective (non-imaginary) reality.

Big difference.

Pray she becomes an artist, and not some kind of woo healer.

 

[desertgal]

I had a quick look at her Facebook account, under the name "Anita Ikonen," and it looks as though she has no "friends" at her school. The friends that are listed seem to be people from this forum.
M.

Given her apparent penchant for spinning her delusions in the direction of everyone she meets, I'd be surprised if Anita has any friends at all.

That said, though, there is a student by that name registered at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, in the same department, and working towards the same degree. Again, suggesting that the person posting here has stolen the identity of that student crosses the line from accusing her of fantasizing to alleging that she has committed an actual crime.

Since there is some evidence to the contrary, as Unca pointed out, and no one here has anything more solid than her apparent "stupidity" and/or her Facebook profile, the allegation should be dropped from the discussion. That's just my opinion, but I think it is valid.

 

[Moochie]

Given her apparent penchant for spinning her delusions in the direction of everyone she meets, I'd be surprised if Anita has any friends at all.

That said, though, there is a student by that name registered at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, in the same department, and working towards the same degree. Again, suggesting that the person posting here has stolen the identity of that student crosses the line from accusing her of fantasizing to alleging that she has committed an actual crime.

Since there is some evidence to the contrary, as Unca pointed out, and no one here has anything more solid than her apparent "stupidity" and/or her Facebook profile, the allegation should be dropped from the discussion. That's just my opinion, but I think it is valid.

I agree. Still, it's interesting to speculate, isn't it?


M.

 

[Akhenaten]

I got other types of crystals of different colors and spent time holding them in my hands, and developed a sense of feeling that was distinct for each of them. Eventually I was so good at feeling the different crystals that I no longer felt a need to hold them, I would feel all of them just by knowing where they were.

If I am very effective (although this is getting ahead of ourselves) I may also be able to distinguish the different types of crystals by their vibrational signature.

Anita can u explain the contradiction here pls?

I can do this.

The training that I did with crystals was when I was much younger and had no science background, that I could use to explain my ability in scientific terms. I was only able to describe my ability in terms which I knew at that time.

What I mean by the second statement above is that now that I have studied physics, chemistry, optics, statistics (upcoming), diagnostic medicine, radiology, quantum mechanics, critical thinking, biology, pharmacology and calculus, I may be better able to describe crystals in terms of their Vibrational Signature™

 

[Uncayimmy]

I had an e-mail exchange with Anita. Here's something she said that I found very interesting:

I am of course more than expecting to find out in my investigations that there is of course nothing paranormal taking place. In fact, the accuracy of what I perceive might after all not be as good as it has appeared to have been in past experiences. All of this I have already said on the JREF Forum...

I would say that she has never said any such thing before. Did I miss something?