Vision From Feeling

[Belz...]

Anita, THIS is why IIG cannot test you.
THIS is why the delays have been happening. It's not their fault, it is yours.
THIS is why independent testing of your claim will never happen.
You are NEVER clear and upfront about what you can and can't do, and under what circumstances.
There is always some secret further restriction which no-one ever knows about until they try to do any testing. And then you pull the latest issue out of the hat.

Do all the medical subjects have to be of equal weight, size, colour etc?
What number of new restrictions can be dreamed up to avoid any testing?

This is pathetic.

Indeed.

I said so from the get-go. I knew VfF would weasel out of any problem or negative result. It's pretty much what happens with all of those woo-woos. When's the last time you saw someone test his/her abilities and, upon failing, admit that he/she was probably wrong, and move on ? It happens, but it's fairly rare, from my experience.

 

[tsig]

This reminds me of James Hydrick staring at the telephone book after Randi had poured packing beads around it. You can see him wondering how on earth he’s going to get those pages to turn without the telltale movement of the beads. I’m not suggesting that Anita is using any tricks, it’s just I’m seeing the same deer-in-the headlights thing we often see when woo claims are put to the test.

He has the ability that all woos have. He can come up with instant excuses.

Did you notice that one of the judges still believes in woo even though he has just seen it fail?

 

[nathan]

I don't mean to sound crude, but Anita is so stupid that I must raise my doubts about her education again. Someone should contact her University - I wouldn't consider it inappropriate, all the contact details are freely available, even a simple email would do.

I don't understand your point. There's evidence Anita is studying where she says she is. Wouldn't the university have noticed if she got there under false pretences? And isn't it up to them what they do about it?

Anyway, I don't think Anita is stupid. She's an intelligent person who happens to be deluded. If anything it's her intelligence that is leading her to false conclusions that she is also be infallible in that her perceptions are accurately reflecting stimuli.

 

[tsig]

I don't mean to sound crude, but Anita is so stupid that I must raise my doubts about her education again. Someone should contact her University - I wouldn't consider it inappropriate, all the contact details are freely available, even a simple email would do.

I don't believe a word she has written. Yes and that includes her name.

She presents one face here and quite another on her blog.

It's just another case of an aspiring woo hoping to gain some shine off Randi's name.

 

[skeen]

My point is, I'm not sure if that's even her. There's deluded, but Anita goes way outside of delusion into transparent lying and dodging and manipulating. And yes, she has expressed outright stupidity over and over again.

I just feel like a lot of peoples time is being wasted, and that people are being taken for a ride. I don't believe her claims about being an excellent student, to the extent that I doubt her very education. This is ridiculous.

 

[tsig]

My point is, I'm not sure if that's even her. There's deluded, but Anita goes way outside of delusion into transparent lying and dodging and manipulating. And yes, she has expressed outright stupidity over and over again.

I just feel like a lot of peoples time is being wasted, and that people are being taken for a ride. I don't believe her claims about being an excellent student, to the extent that I doubt her very education. This is ridiculous.

I only have to be lied to once to consider that person a liar. Anita has show a pattern of deceit, dodging and manipulating.

Does it matter whether a person is deluded or deceitful? The outcome is the same, they are making statements contrary to facts.

 

[sleepy_lioness]

Having taught undergraduates, at a very good university, I have to say that some can actually appear shockingly stupid, through various factors such as lack of life experience, naivety, arrogance ... oh, and yes, innate stupidity.

 

[Locknar]

I don't understand your point. There's evidence Anita is studying where she says she is. Wouldn't the university have noticed if she got there under false pretences? And isn't it up to them what they do about it?

Anyway, I don't think Anita is stupid. She's an intelligent person who happens to be deluded. If anything it's her intelligence that is leading her to false conclusions that she is also be infallible in that her perceptions are accurately reflecting stimuli.

I believe skeen's point is/was...the Anita we've associated with the university may NOT be physically the same person that posts here as VFF.

There is ample evidence to suggest that is in fact the case, as aspects of "Science 101" seem to elude her to no avail.

 

[Moochie]

He has the ability that all woos have. He can come up with instant excuses.

Did you notice that one of the judges still believes in woo even though he has just seen it fail?

Yes, but that judge proclaimed himself a "parapsychologist," so he already has three strikes against him.


M.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I believe skeen's point is/was...the Anita we've associated with the university may NOT be physically the same person that posts here as VFF.

There is ample evidence to suggest that is in fact the case, as aspects of "Science 101" seem to elude her to no avail.

Everything fits being deluded. It's nice and neat.

Deception over her identity is a bit wacky.

* There is an Anita Ikonen who attends the UNC seeking the same degree Anita claims.

* I have seen pictures on Facebook of Anita as she looks today and at a much younger (teen) age. They match what's on her web page.

* I have also seen pictures of her in a chemistry lab at school looking as she looks today.

* Pup mailed the stuff to her in NC (unless, for some reason, he failed to tell us it was going to Nigeria).

* She showed up at the local skeptics meeting in person.

* She used that name with IIG West over a year ago.

* She has a Facebook friend with whom she has exchanged public comments about going back to school.

* In our Facebook chat she launched into some Swedish which I immediately translated on-line and found to be at least reasonably authentic.

If this is a deception, it is an extremely elaborate and risky one. And why do people suspect deception? Because she doesn't seem smart. Hmm...

As I pointed out about 200 posts ago, being a great student doesn't mean you're smart (and vice-versa). I have seen plenty of high GPA students who could not apply what they learned outside of the classroom.

But most importantly, it all fits her being delusional. We have seen Desertgal's posts. She's obviously intelligent, yet she told us that she once was utterly convinced she had been to Paris when she had not. Delusions can be very powerful when untreated.

 

[Locknar]

Everything fits being deluded. It's nice and neat.

Deception over her identity is a bit wacky.

<snip>

If this is a deception, it is an extremely elaborate and risky one. And why do people suspect deception? Because she doesn't seem smart. Hmm...

As I pointed out about 200 posts ago, being a great student doesn't mean you're smart (and vice-versa). I have seen plenty of high GPA students who could not apply what they learned outside of the classroom.

But most importantly, it all fits her being delusional. We have seen Desertgal's posts. She's obviously intelligent, yet she told us that she once was utterly convinced she had been to Paris when she had not. Delusions can be very powerful when untreated.

Agreed.

I didn't mean to imply I agreed with that line of reasoning...just that there was evidence to suggest it as a possibility.

 

[desertgal]

I don't suspect deception about her identity or her nationality. I do see the contradictions in her claims, but I believe that can be attributed more to her delusional state than deliberate deception.

IOW, I don't think Anita is trying to "fool the skeptics" in the way that, say, Creekfreak or Historian did. I think she's trying to make the skeptics believe in her claims to reinforce the "reality" of her delusions to herself. Course, since her delusions aren't reality, she's got to dodge and backtrack and manipulate her fantasy to fit, and that's when the contradictions appear.

Does it matter whether a person is deluded or deceitful? The outcome is the same, they are making statements contrary to facts.

I agree. I warned Anita some posts ago that many people, now and in her future, aren't going to have a lot of patience with the fact that she is delusional-playing people for fools is going to cost her, whatever the motivation. She chooses not to listen to that advice. C'est la vie.

ETA: There is no reason to think that she is being deceptive about her identity and/or her nationality. Keep in mind, it's one thing to get on the Internet in a delusional state and spin a fantasy in the hopes that people will believe you - but identity theft is a whole other matter. I think it would probably be wiser for everyone to cease with that line of thought since it is, in fact, accusing Anita of a crime without solid evidence to back the accusation up.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Agreed.

I didn't mean to imply I agreed with that line of reasoning...just that there was evidence to suggest it as a possibility.

Sorry, I misunderstood. It's certainly possible, but I'm leaning away from it. As I have said before, I'm certain that she has been deceptive. Hell, everybody lies. I just think in her case that she's more likely to be lying to herself. Of course, that means we're not hearing the truth. I hesitate to label self-deception as "lying to others" because of how I personally factor in intent. But I wouldn't engage anyone in serious debate over that point.

Sometimes English can be so limiting.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Does it matter whether a person is deluded or deceitful? The outcome is the same, they are making statements contrary to facts.

It depends on what you mean by matter.

If I find myself engaging a someone knowingly being deceitful, I will typically disengage once I or others have clearly established the contradictions. Unless, of course, I feel like I can trick the person into doing something that leaves no wiggle room. I exposed a few sock puppets that way before. I replied to Puppet A as if I were talking to Original Person and got them to respond in kind, forgetting that they were using the Puppet A account. Worked like a charm!

In Anita's case I feel she is delusional and in need of help. I feel there is still hope that she can find a way out. So in that sense the type of deceit "matters" to me.

But as for the reliability of what she says, it doesn't really "matter" why she is being deceitful. On that I think we agree.

 

[skeen]

I contend that she probably is who she says she is. But in my mind that only makes things worse for her psychological state.

@UncaYimmy: I concurred with you before when you said that being a good student doesn't necessarily mean you're learning how to think; it's just that it gets more and more difficult to comprehend seeing her, well, idiotic statements escalate into pure nonsense.

Even very basic, logical, critical thinking eludes Anita entirely.

 

[Sideroxylon]

He has the ability that all woos have. He can come up with instant excuses.

Did you notice that one of the judges still believes in woo even though he has just seen it fail?

If that judge was right about the existence of scientific support for paranormal claims then we should be very disappointed with the lack of progress made by parapsychology since that time. Of course we could blame that on conspiracies and tenacious paradigms but then where are the technological applications? What are the odds any will emerge from Anita’s claims?

And yes, you do have to be able to come up with good ad hoc explanations for apparent failure so as to protect your delusion or deception. Also note how Hydrick “failed” at his first attempt to turn the pages. I heard Derren Brown talking about how mediums like to lower expectations about their own abilities as an easy escape when things don’t go as expected. I think with Hydrick there is a bit of that as well as a showmanship element. What’s the bet Anita’s “abilities” will prove unreliable under scrutiny despite the accuracy she has claimed?

 

[Sideroxylon]

My point is, I'm not sure if that's even her. There's deluded, but Anita goes way outside of delusion into transparent lying and dodging and manipulating. And yes, she has expressed outright stupidity over and over again.

I just feel like a lot of peoples time is being wasted, and that people are being taken for a ride. I don't believe her claims about being an excellent student, to the extent that I doubt her very education. This is ridiculous.

I wondered earlier why so many intelligent people were entertaining such a patently absurd claim but I don't think we can say anyone has been taken for a ride. I have really enjoyed to see how people go about analysing Anita's claims as well as trying to understand why/if she believes what she claims. In short, it's been entertaining and educational.

 

[Pup]

* Pup mailed the stuff to her in NC (unless, for some reason, he failed to tell us it was going to Nigeria).

As promised, I won't reveal the address, but I'll just say that it sounded like a college student's address. It wasn't a P.O. Box, and the mail seemed to arrive in a reasonable enough time, not like a forwarding service was used. Just my opinion, but I think her identity is real; her delusions aren't. I mean, they're real delusions, they're just not real abilities. You know what I mean. In other words, I think she's an otherwise smart kid who really believes this stuff, but she's headed for a hard landing when she crashes into reality.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

And so it goes...

I hope Anita comes out of this okay. She just go a big slap in the face from Reality, and that was after being told/ask/having suggested repeatedly, from multiple sources, that she might be delusional. If this has actually pushed her to look at the notion that she might, in fact, be a little unwound upstairs...I can only imagine how terrifying that moment would be.

I mean, we've all been doing something that we realized was way more work than it was worth (or was inherently dumb, as getting ready to jump in the water on January 1st) and thought, "Am I crazy?" But it must be another thing entirely to really have to wonder that.

I am, at this moment, a little worried about her. (Not a reaction I expected.) If she has an illness and gets help, that's good; but it must be an emotionally wracking thing to face.

Just my thoughts, MK

 

[Uncayimmy]

I contend that she probably is who she says she is. But in my mind that only makes things worse for her psychological state.

@UncaYimmy: I concurred with you before when you said that being a good student doesn't necessarily mean you're learning how to think; it's just that it gets more and more difficult to comprehend seeing her, well, idiotic statements escalate into pure nonsense.

Even very basic, logical, critical thinking eludes Anita entirely.

I, too, am completely amazed . Every time she pulls something like this my draw drops. , my eyes bug out , and I get irritated . But then I think about it and figure it's cool because she's just hiding from reality. She refuses to see what's going on. I figure with enough pressure she'll open her eyes and think about it herself . This will bother her and even frighten her. Then it will dawn on her that she'll have to eat her words . It might make her sad at first and embarrassed , but ultimately she'll be relieved and appreciate our efforts . It's gotta be better than getting flamed like she has been. If this happens I'll be shocked and probably faint . But I'll also be giddy .