Vision From Feeling

[Moochie]

I'm keeping a low profile on this one in the hope that everyone will forget that I was the one who originally couldn't do this and despite my almost 6,000 posts I never wondered what the little 'inverted commas button' under every single post did.

Silly duffer!


M.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Pup,
I received the crushed medicine samples in the mail yesterday. Thank you for arranging this test. I have not had much time to dedicate to them yet (due to prioritating my studies) but already have some concerns: I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these. Also I have significant difficulty with two of the compounds, Phenylephrine HCl and Cetirizine HCl, as I have never encountered these as reference samples. This would require me to purchase each of these, and at the time being my funds are low. I looked up the molecular structure of each, as well as their medicinal effects and side-effects, but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference.

Are you able to still send me one uncrushed pill of each for reference so that I can attempt to match them to the crushed samples? Thank you, I find this test very interesting and fun, but do allow the time it will take before I get back with some conclusions as to how I think I do on the matching.

Everyone,
The study will not take place this weekend. I have not had the time to prepare the paperwork for it, and also the person who will take me there is not available this weekend but is the next. I hope to work some more on the papers this weekend and I hope to have the study next weekend. "Thank you for your patience."

 

[Locknar]

Everyone,
The study will not take place this weekend. I have not had the time to prepare the paperwork for it, and also the person who will take me there is not available this weekend but is the next. I hope to work some more on the papers this weekend and I hope to have the study next weekend. "Thank you for your patience."

Right.....

 

[Coveredinbeeees]

Pup,
I received the crushed medicine samples in the mail yesterday. Thank you for arranging this test. I have not had much time to dedicate to them yet (due to prioritating my studies) but already have some concerns: I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these. Also I have significant difficulty with two of the compounds, Phenylephrine HCl and Cetirizine HCl, as I have never encountered these as reference samples. This would require me to purchase each of these, and at the time being my funds are low. I looked up the molecular structure of each, as well as their medicinal effects and side-effects, but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference.

Surely, knowing the effect each of these drugs has on the human body, you need only look at the crushed sample, look at a human subject, and then do a bit of vibrational algebra.

Why do that facts that the samples have different quantities and colours have any bearing on your ability to tell what effect they will have on a human body and hence which is which?

Are you able to still send me one uncrushed pill of each for reference so that I can attempt to match them to the crushed samples? Thank you, I find this test very interesting and fun, but do allow the time it will take before I get back with some conclusions as to how I think I do on the matching.

Looking back I see that Pup has already pointed out why sending you uncrushed samples of the medicines he sent would compromise the experiment and suggesting a free method for you to sample them. You even replied to the post in which he did so. I am baffled as to why you are asking again.

In their commercial form, these are common medicines, all available in any drugstore, so if you're not aware of them already from everyday life, it would be simple to look at someone's bottle of aspirin or Zyrtec or Rolaids, or take a "look" at them in a drugstore through the cardboard boxes, like the cardboard-enclosed cereal you saw. True, you might not be seeing the same brand (my samples are all store generics so might not be the same size or color or flavor as others), but it's not about identifying brands, it's about identifying their effects on the human, body, right?

I don't mean you'd deliberately try to guess through appearance, odor, etc. I think that using those clues subconsciously is what's happening, and asking for examples of the pills is a way of helping yourself, subconsciously, tip the odds a little more in your favor.

 

[Jonquill]

Maybe Anita should identify three of them and just leave the two shes not sure of for later, getting three of them right would still be pretty good, and if she even just guessed the last two she would have a 50% chance of getting them right if she had correctly identifed the other three.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Pup,
I received the crushed medicine samples in the mail yesterday. Thank you for arranging this test. I have not had much time to dedicate to them yet (due to prioritating my studies) but already have some concerns: I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these. Also I have significant difficulty with two of the compounds, Phenylephrine HCl and Cetirizine HCl, as I have never encountered these as reference samples. This would require me to purchase each of these, and at the time being my funds are low. I looked up the molecular structure of each, as well as their medicinal effects and side-effects, but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference.

What possible difference could the amount, dimensions and color make to someone sensing vibrational information down to the atomic level? Please explain. You *do* know that pills are not 100% whatever it is they say they contain, right? They Sudafed tablet probably has 10mg of the chemical and a whole lotta milligrams of other stuff. 10mg is very, very small. And the pills probably already contain some sort of coloring anyway.

The reason you are having "significant difficulty" is that you, in fact, do not have any special ability to sense vibrational information. You requires clues in the real world in order for your imagination to come up with something, just like I have been saying all along.

Are you able to still send me one uncrushed pill of each for reference so that I can attempt to match them to the crushed samples? Thank you, I find this test very interesting and fun, but do allow the time it will take before I get back with some conclusions as to how I think I do on the matching.

Funny, you've never mentioned needing a reference before.

Everyone,
The study will not take place this weekend. I have not had the time to prepare the paperwork for it, and also the person who will take me there is not available this weekend but is the next. I hope to work some more on the papers this weekend and I hope to have the study next weekend. "Thank you for your patience."

What is the protocol? You *do* realize that every test you've done on your own has, well, sucked from a scientific standpoint. Why don't you run it by us first before you do anything. If you don't and we find flaws in it afterwards, then you will have wasted everyone's time.

Also, have you contacted a mental health professional and presented the full contents of the moderated thread?

 

[Akhenaten]

Pup,
I received the crushed medicine samples in the mail yesterday. Thank you for arranging this test. I have not had much time to dedicate to them yet (due to prioritating my studies) but already have some concerns:

By an amazing coincidence, so do I, and the time that you must dedicate to this test is the first of them.

If someone sent me an envelope containing 5 different coloured cards which I was to identify by colour using my normal vision, how long do you think it would take me to do? My estimate is about 3 seconds, and I'm a little curious about how much more slowly your vision from feeling operates, and why this would be so. MRIs, ultrasound scans and x-rays all work instantaneously, and VfF is supposed to better than these.

I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these.

If one is comparing the physical properties of things, this preference would be understandable, but why is it a requirement for a chemical analysis? Are crime scene investigators unable to process crime scenes if the blood samples are different sizes? Does a gallon of ice cream have a different chemical composition to a pint of the same stuff?

Why doesn't vibrational algebra enable you to solve this problem? It seems to me that it must come into play in terms of your main claim to be able to diagnose medical conditions in live subjects, since people and their working parts come in a wide variety of sizes.

Also I have significant difficulty with two of the compounds, Phenylephrine HCl and Cetirizine HCl, as I have never encountered these as reference samples.

How do you know that?

Phenylephrine is the most common over-the-counter decongestant on the market in the US and Cetrizine is an antihistamine marketed all over the world as Zyrtec or Reactine.

Is this the peanut oil defense revisited?

BTW, you snipped my question about malaria in that exchange. Remind me to ask you about it again.

This would require me to purchase each of these, and at the time being my funds are low. I looked up the molecular structure of each, as well as their medicinal effects and side-effects, but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference.

Did you use Wikipedia like I did? Do the pretty pictures of the molecules differ from what you see, and if they do, which would you say is a better representation of the real thing.


In any case, this reference business is a contradiction to this quote from Post # 8 of this thread:

In terms of the other forms of information I obtain besides health, I am always curious to check my conclusions against known facts, by looking it up in a book or on the internet. All on my own and independently by using this ability I have obtained information about chemistry, materials, plants, animals, bacteria, foods and medicines that I did not know prior and that could not have been guessed to such detail. What compels me is also that I am so certain of the information when I perceive it. I do not have a single example of when I would have been incorrect.

Although, admittedly, the above is contradicted by Post #17:

There is no obvious way to relate the information from literature about chemical elements or molecules to what it is I am observing, so in terms of chemical identification I need to experience a known reference to learn how to identify the name of the atoms or molecules I am seeing.

Which in turn seems to be contradicted by Post #19:

I also used my ability to help me in the chemical identification exercise in a chemistry lab. We were given four unknown compounds that we had to identify through various chemical testing, melting point, IR and NMR spectra. By looking into the molecules, I could for instance clearly see biphenyl, and the nitrogen that was involved in two of the others was clearly detectable and a helpful clue.

It's a bit hard to follow sometimes, and that was 1500 posts ago.


As to the cost, I believe it was mentioned when the test was proposed that all you need do is go to a chemist pharmacy drug store place where Americans buy pills, and LOOK at a packet of Sudafed and a packet of Zyrtec. You can have your reference lookies and you don't need to purchase anything, although the chemist pharmacist druggist pill-selling person might look at YOU with some curiosity.


Further still why complain about cost now when you said in Post #1280:

Of course I have no such intention, and can easily acquire at least most of these pills that you are sending me if I wanted to, I was just thinking it would be easier for you to do so. You can choose to not include original samples if you wish.

And even more further yet, it had been explained to you in Post #1230

Unfortunately, I don't have access to any pure samples of the medicines. Not sure where one would find them, outside of a pharmaceutical manufacturer's lab.

But I'm guessing you mean the original pills with all their fillers and colorings, and not the actual pure medicines. The first thing that occurs to me is that wanting to be aware of the size, odor and perhaps texture or appearance of the original pills might help you sense which is which through normal means

and further in Post #1291:

I don't mean you'd deliberately try to guess through appearance, odor, etc. I think that using those clues subconsciously is what's happening, and asking for examples of the pills is a way of helping yourself, subconsciously, tip the odds a little more in your favor.

Yet you still ask:

Are you able to still send me one uncrushed pill of each for reference so that I can attempt to match them to the crushed samples?

I think "No."

Thank you, I find this test very interesting and fun, but do allow the time it will take before I get back with some conclusions as to how I think I do on the matching.

Again I have to ask, how long does it take to look at something? "A quick glance to locate the object is all that it takes and the information is downloaded" doesn't sound like it would take very long. Is your VfF on dial-up?

Everyone,
The study will not take place this weekend. I have not had the time to prepare the paperwork for it, and also the person who will take me there is not available this weekend but is the next. I hope to work some more on the papers this weekend and I hope to have the study next weekend. "Thank you for your patience."

Since we have no idea what this paperwork consists of, or where you're going, and we weren't expecting a study this weekend anyway, this is somewhat less than shattering news. What's the latest on the attending sceptics that The Study™ required?

Please stop mentioning our patience. Nobody is in that much of a hurry. Take your time and answer all the other questions that have been asked since your last visit.


ETA: Oh rats! I should have refreshed the page before I replied. The brilliant Coveredinbeeees and UncaYimmy (bless his heart) beat me to most of what I had to say. Curse you, time zones.

This Wall o' Text brought to you by Amarna Publishing Inc. and Ahklon's Stelae and Monuments.​

 

[volatile]

So when you're not under test conditions, the vision comes quick and easy, but when you are, all of a sudden it's difficult?

Why do you think this might be?

The longer you take to answer, the more suspicious we will be of any eventual result, given that there are non-paranormal methods of determining the composition of the samples (chemical analysis) to which you obviously have some access.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Obscure Egyptology jokes for 400...

By an amazing coincidence, so do I, and the time that you must dedicate to this test is the first of them.
...

(snippage of much excellent stuff)
ETA: Oh rats! I should have refreshed the page before I replied. The brilliant Coveredinbeeees and UncaYimmy (bless his heart) beat me to most of what I had to say. Curse you, time zones.

This Wall o' Text brought to you by Amarna Publishing Inc. and Ahklon's Stelae and Monuments.​

Akhenaten, I laughed so hard at the closing comments I almost peed myself. I don't know if anyone else caught the refs, but it just slew me. If you're ever at the same TAM I am, I owe you a drink.

Miss Kitt

 

[Belz...]

I received the crushed medicine samples in the mail yesterday. Thank you for arranging this test. I have not had much time to dedicate to them yet (due to prioritating my studies)

 

[EHocking]

...but already have some concerns: I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these. Also I have significant difficulty with two of the compounds, Phenylephrine HCl and Cetirizine HCl, as I have never encountered these as reference samples.

Why would you need reference samples.
You have previously stated that you "see" the molecular structure without need of a reference:

Post 17
I also used my ability to help me in the chemical identification exercise in a chemistry lab. We were given four unknown compounds that we had to identify through various chemical testing, melting point, IR and NMR spectra. By looking into the molecules, I could for instance clearly see biphenyl, and the nitrogen that was involved in two of the others was clearly detectable and a helpful clue.

Post 1164
What I said was that during an assignment of identifying unknown chemical species, I perceived the 6-carbon ring, and the presence and location of nitrogen.

This would require me to purchase each of these, and at the time being my funds are low. I looked up the molecular structure of each, as well as their medicinal effects and side-effects, but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference. [/quote]The photo above seems to be quite apt.

 

[Sideroxylon]

This reminds me of James Hydrick staring at the telephone book after Randi had poured packing beads around it. You can see him wondering how on earth he’s going to get those pages to turn without the telltale movement of the beads. I’m not suggesting that Anita is using any tricks, it’s just I’m seeing the same deer-in-the headlights thing we often see when woo claims are put to the test.

 

[Locknar]

Obviously she has no time for skeptical or critical thinking.... Set course the "woo woo" planet, in the denial nebula Mr Data, Warp 9...engage!

 

[Ashles]

already have some concerns: I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these.

What. The. Hell?
Where have these brand new requirement come from?
How many of Anita's previous claims does this contradict?
Would Anita like them all labelled too, just to be really helpful?

This is her claim! This is what she is supposed to be able to do! Identifying different chemicals from vision!
Except whan any actual controls are introduced.

Anita, THIS is why IIG cannot test you.
THIS is why the delays have been happening. It's not their fault, it is yours.
THIS is why independent testing of your claim will never happen.
You are NEVER clear and upfront about what you can and can't do, and under what circumstances.
There is always some secret further restriction which no-one ever knows about until they try to do any testing. And then you pull the latest issue out of the hat.

Do all the medical subjects have to be of equal weight, size, colour etc?
What number of new restrictions can be dreamed up to avoid any testing?

This is pathetic. The claim is to be able to see at a molecular level, yet now the samples have to be similar sizes? I just can't believe this. Even from her.

It's like someone claiming they can levitate. They have done so loads of times under all conditions. They have never failed to be able to levitate in any one of a load of times described in unverified stories.
Then when it comes to actually being tested they ask if they could possibly just omit the actual 'levitating' part of the test.

Look, Anita, just take the smallest sample, and make similar sized samples from the others. How on earth is the sample size a problem?

In fact it sounds like you realised that the colour conformity was an issue (you were clearly hoping for more readily visually identifiable samples), so you wanted a couple more issues to make it look like there were several different issues. So you added "amount" and "sample size".
Either you are using two words for exactly the same thing just to make it sound like more issues.
Or you are referring to "sample size" in terms of number of different samples. Which would be ludicrous as you already knew what was coming.

This is truly ridiculous.
If you want more help with making them identifiable (a whole tablet please) just forget it - your claim has disappeared to nothing.

Just so you are clear, as this is obviously very complicated for you:
the colour conformity and not sending you the tablets is a form of control so YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE SUBSTANCES WITH THE ORIGINAL!

Also I have significant difficulty with two of the compounds, Phenylephrine HCl and Cetirizine HCl, as I have never encountered these as reference samples. This would require me to purchase each of these, and at the time being my funds are low. I looked up the molecular structure of each, as well as their medicinal effects and side-effects, but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference.

And now we compare this to the claim that you could identify the effects of marijuana from a photograph where you didn't even know what the photo was of, and you had never experienced the effects of marijuana yourself!

How about we send you a list of chemicals, you read back the list to us and declare it a successful test.
That appears to be what you want.

If you are this terrified of failing in a test (even one that would have been considered to not have a particular amount of weight on either side) it's time to take a good long hard look at how much you really do believe in your ability.
Don't repeat it to us, you already know where we stand.
Right now the only person you stand any chance of changing their opinion of the ability is yourself.
It may be uncomfortable but if you are really interested in truth it's time to start doing tests or accepting you don't really believe this nonsense yourself.

Everything else is just evasion.

 

[Christian Klippel]

...but this information is only partially helpful when I lack having seen the reference.

Are you able to still send me one uncrushed pill of each for reference so that I can attempt to match them to the crushed samples? ...

<Looking around>

Damn, where is that goalpost? I swear, it was right next to me not that long ago. Either one of my cat's ate it, or someone has moved it around.

<Continues searching the goalpost>

 

[Pup]

Well, I log in for the first time since yesterday afternoon, and discover that everyone has already said pretty much what I'd say, so I'll just add the following:

I would prefer for each of the five samples to more closely resemble one another in terms of their amount, sample dimensions and color, as they are significantly different in regard to these.

For what it's worth, each sample was either a whole pill of the smaller pills, and an unmeasured guess at a portion of the larger pills that was similar in size to the smaller pills. Because they became a thick liquid when mixed with the gel-texture food coloring, they smeared when I put them in the ziplock bags and therefore probably appear even more diverse in quantity than they really are. The variation in color is because I added a dab of red and/or green food coloring by eye.

But I'm curious what on earth the color or quantity would have to do with anything. What if I'd only sent one pill for you to identify? Its color or quantity in relationship to others would have been moot.

This shows that you couldn't have identified even one pill, either, and therefore I'd call this test a definite fail. You cannot sense the effect on the human body of a medicinal substance merely be observing it.

I am impressed by your honesty, though, and I want to commend you on that. Knowing you were at a university with access to a chemistry department, I would have worried that a good result might have been due to some helpful mundane analysis. Saying that you can't do the test as it stands, shows integrity.

But now, I hope you'd think about the past examples you've related, where you believed you were able to sense the results of medicines on the human body, and realize that in an objective test, the ability has failed. Why do you think that is? I don't believe it has anything to do with the size or color of the samples.

By the way, I was concerned about one of the samples, the antacid, but included it anyway. It had a subtle odor, since it was a generic equivalent for the very common antacid Tums and was berry-flavored. Someone familiar with Tums might recognize the odor if the ziplock bag was opened for a closer look. I was possibly expecting a result that the antacid was identifiable but none of the others were.

 

[Christian Klippel]

What number of new restrictions can be dreamed up to avoid any testing?

Hello Ashles,

in my opinion, and from my reading about testing woo claims, i have to conclude that this number is somewhere very close to infinity.

Besides, i don't think that sending 4 samples to her makes much sense. If she really studies what she says, she has access to lots of stuff to analyze the substances in regular ways. Unless, of course, the samples are sealed in something, like glass vials, and sent back after identification to check if there was any tampering with the containers/vials. Assuming that the used seals are unique so that she cant replace them once they are broken.

Greetings,

Chris

Edit: I just see that Pup beat me to it re: analyzing the samples.

 

[Ashles]

Thank you, I find this test very interesting and fun, but do allow the time it will take before I get back with some conclusions as to how I think I do on the matching.

Why "conclusions" aas to how you "think" you do? Again this is unclear. And frankly I've had enough of assuming it is because of language issues. Anita's English is perfectly good and these aren't examples of specific words that might be mistranslated, but whole sentences that seem intended only to confuse, and we have seen many of these already.

Writing "I will post the results of the test" is well within Anita's ability. She is avoiding clear language deliberately.

Anita, we aren't looking for your opinions on how you "think" you might do or how you "think" you did do.
We are looking for the actual results.
Analysis and opinion will come after that.

Everyone,
The study will not take place this weekend.

Who thought it would?

I have not had the time to prepare the paperwork for it, and also the person who will take me there is not available this weekend but is the next.

Why have just one excuse when two sounds more convincing?
How much damn paperwork does this study require? I don't remember the part of Unca Yimmy's protocol that required three weeks of documentation preparation.

To be honest I have pretty much no clue what this 'study' is even going to consist of anymore.

I hope to work some more on the papers this weekend and I hope to have the study next weekend. "Thank you for your patience."

Or you could delay the study and actually describe the results of the "survey". Remember that?

Or are you trying to delete that from our collective memory?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Hello Ashles,

in my opinion, and from my reading about testing woo claims, i have to conclude that this number is somewhere very close to infinity.

Besides, i don't think that sending 4 samples to her makes much sense. If she really studies what she says, she has access to lots of stuff to analyze the substances in regular ways. Unless, of course, the samples are sealed in something, like glass vials, and sent back after identification to check if there was any tampering with the containers/vials. Assuming that the used seals are unique so that she cant replace them once they are broken.

Greetings,

Chris

Edit: I just see that Pup beat me to it re: analyzing the samples.

She would only be cheating herself... If she was going to do that she could have just mad up stunningly good results for the cereal tests.

If she does well on any vaguely controlled tests, she will have no excuse for not using that for her test with the IIG.

 

[skeen]

I don't mean to sound crude, but Anita is so stupid that I must raise my doubts about her education again. Someone should contact her University - I wouldn't consider it inappropriate, all the contact details are freely available, even a simple email would do.