Vision From Feeling

[desertgal]

Now it's about 2300 words here and you still haven't answered UncaYimmy.
I don't think you are as crazy as some other people here do, I have worked with real ******** crazy people. I think you are merely a liar.

She won't answer UncaYimmy. His questions require specific answers, with no wiggle room. She wouldn't want to tie herself down to anything she can't wall o'text herself out of.

This whole thing has gone beyond ridiculous. You are a fraud, Anita. Whether you realize it or not, you are a fraud. Nobody has the type of vision you describe. Not you, not anyone. It is absurd to even suggest that you do. Your "perceptions" are nothing more than hallucinations conjured up by a mind that lost touch with reality long ago. You will just continue to attempt to yank everyone's chain while you blabber on endlessly about your fantasies of medical diagnosis, dinosaur ghosts, and talking with the animals.

 

[TheSkepticCanuck]

This whole thing has gone beyond ridiculous. You are a fraud, Anita. Whether you realize it or not, you are a fraud. Nobody has the type of vision you describe. Not you, not anyone. It is absurd to even suggest that you do. Your "perceptions" are nothing more than hallucinations conjured up by a mind that lost touch with reality long ago. You will just continue to attempt to yank everyone's chain while you blabber on endlessly about your fantasies of medical diagnosis, dinosaur ghosts, and talking with the animals.

If her claims were real and verifiable, she'd be rich by the new year, from the sale of the movie and television rights alone! The CW network would be all over that potential show! Think House MD meets Ghost Whisperer meets Dr. Doolittle. The storylines would be incredible!

 

[Akhenaten]

Clearly, what's needed is a study of the tests carried out so far, including a survey of the trials which have been conducted. Is there any way to work in an analysis?

 

[Miss_Kitt]

I would like to wish the Happiest of Holiday Seasons to all who have persevered through this thread!

The patience, persistance, and overall kindness of the posters--those who suspect ESP and those who suspect imagination gone wild alike--has made me proud of the Forum and the value it represents.

It's also excellent entertainment, especially when we're snowed in.

Excelsior! Miss Kitt

PS To Anita/VFF -- I now understand the agreed value of "perceptions" as a term, and I won't nag about it anymore. In your posts, the term "perceptions" means the visions/feelings you experience, with no implication of their cause or veracity. I think if we all agree to that definition, it will simplify things a bit.

 

[Locknar]

My claim is to detect health information that is considered to be not detectable by ordinary senses of perception which include any combination of vision, hearing, sound, scent, or cold reading of body language etc.

That's a start, though I'd suggest also inaccurate. If you insist you must view the person in order for you to do what claim you can do (along with everything else, you have waffled on this point)...you can not summarily rule out "cold reading". But of course you knew this already.

We have talked in PMs several times on the topic of being specific & quantifying your statements/claims. After our conversations, and this thread, the best you can do is "my claim is to detect health information"?

Specifically what health information in whom, how often can you do this (ie. at will, several times a day, etc.), under what specific conditions, etc. to start with. This is a power you claim to have always had...surly these are easy questions given a lifetime of this "power."

I will not remove the anecdotal examples of perceptions, because I was specificly asked by Forum members to document examples and also because I consider the anecdotes to be a contribution in the investigation.

While forum members may have asked, your website had these campfire stories long before you came here. To claim or otherwise imply you posted your stories soley because of Forum member requests is false.

I do realize that the anecdotes are not formal evidence, however they are not pure woo since, although so far they are without formal evidence to back it up, they are accurate representations of real life experiences.

For someone who proclaims themselves a scientist, your mis-perceptions in this area are staggering.

Your website/bloged anecdotes are nothing more then campfire stories, based on your perception and interpretation of events that may have occurred. They are not accurate nor are they evidence of anything.

 

[Senex]

First off, yes, I *am* so big. Second, I'm rubber, and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Third, no give-backs.

I was just checkmated by someone who may not be as smart as me. That's the story of my life.

 

[Reno]

re the 'replies from page blah-blah' style of posting from VFF: I love my mouse scroll wheel.

 

[skeen]

When you step outside of the box, it's really quite hilarious isn't it? I can type on a keyboard - this is easy to prove. I can think of thousands of ways to prove it is true. I can do it, so I can do it, so I can do it.

When it comes to woo woo's (and I think we can very well classify Anita as one of those by now!), it's utterly impossible to prove their abilities. She has all the opportunities open to her in the world to prove them, but it hasn't happened.

Instead, she posts excruciating ramblings in this thread, resulting in absolutely nothing whatsoever. They serve only to prolong her delusion. I told you - there will be no real test.

Anita: no-one believes you. Moreover, I think you're a liar. And you do not have synaesthesia.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

re the 'replies from page blah-blah' style of posting from VFF: I love my mouse scroll wheel.

If you find your fingers getting numb, try using the auto-scroll function ("3rd" mouse button + scroll wheel) and (at least in Mozilla) you can get the text to scroll up the screen at a comfortable reading speed.

Oh, and I see nothing has happened yet. And I seem to be out of appropriate quotes.

 

[biomorph]

VFF....

I'm not sure about what you've posted here, some questions...if you please.

I am working on it.

Great. Be nice to see some results at some point...

I must explain my perspective in this paranormal challenge application.

Why, it won't change the results, will it?

I sent what I thought to be a well-thought through test protocol suggestion to the IIG (with whom I am arranging the test), and we are now still in the protocol negotiations stage. Progress is very slow.

Maybe you might have consulted them first.
You might need to re-define the meaning of "well thought out".

There is no "handbook for psychic claimants".

I thought there were a few previous tests?
Claiments also usually have access to the "terms and conditions". Always.

It is I as the psychic claimant who has to design the test procedure.

Depends.

It is challenging to take a real-life experience or phenomenon and find a way to adapt it to a laboratory test setting, and this is where the work is at now.

You shouldn't have to adapt it. Otherwise you might miss something. Maybe you should devise tests that don't need that adaption? Dunno. Maybe thats what you mean..

I need to test every single test condition to get experience with each specific detail of the test before I can answer whether it can be included on a test.

Thats a lot words and saying nothing.
Except at some point you'll give up saying you hav'nt the time etc get out? Eh? All those tests.!

Even if I may be quite clear as to how the perceptions work in real life, the test will take place in an environment that is entirely different.

Not so much as to stop the thing you think you can do from working, remember.
Should it be real in the first place, ....

The test must show it either works , or it doesn't.

So I am now arranging to have a study sometime after the holidays to experience various test conditions and to gain more clarity into how to apply my everyday experience in a test setting.

Putting off the inevitable, won't change the result.

There is more work involved than I had thought at first, applying especially with a claim such as mine is not a straight forward process, but that does not make it an untestable claim. I am working on it, I promise.

sure?

My objective in this investigation is to determine the source of the perceptions and the actual accuracy which will be revealed in a test setting.

Not to see if it works in reality then?

I mean to test that the perception exist to start with?

Source? Of what?

Test to see if it is there first, then were it might come from.

should save you some time.....

So I am fully prepared to accept any conclusion of the test. I am a scientist, there is nothing to be gained by holding on to misconceptions.

I 'll hold you to that, and claiming you are one is not proof of being so....somehow I detect dissapointment looming..

What helps me make a diagnose is to see the image of the illness, as well as perceive a feeling of the illness.

Which is correlated how? what mechanism ties in what you think it is, compared to what it actually is. Linkage.

How? If cholera is "yellow", why?

What little I know about medical conditions is often enough to let me make the connection and describe what I see.

Inverse snobbery.
No it's not enough for me., the little you know.

You might get it wrong.

In other cases I give a description of the illness if I do not know it by name. If you had my vision you would definitely identify cavities in the teeth if you saw it.

right

I will not take back that statement. I have often come across medical perceptions that seemed unlikely and impossible to me logically when I thought about it, or seemed so when I looked at the person with my eyesight to try to confirm the perception, so I have definitely been open to being incorrect, yet it has never happened.

Always a first time. Are you ready?

The upcoming study and tests will give plenty of opportunity for incorrect perceptions to be documented and revealed as such.

Glad you are willing to be so honest about where you may have gone wrong. However you've stated earlier you are never wrong...perhaps you mis-spoked.

Diogenes:
When I said that my family is aware of the ability to some extent yet relatively unimpressed by it,

funny that , me to, so far.

Well then that is criticism aimed toward my family and not me, I can not control how others react. But I can imagine if I knew someone who gave accurate medical information and I couldn't do this myself, then over time I would get used to it as well and consider it just a part of who that person is and how they perceive. There is nothing to be gained by being in disbelief toward how I describe others react to my ability, when all I can state time after time is that I am being honest.

Irrelevant.

Ashles:
And if you attended a good school they would encourage you to have creative ideas in physics. As you study your courses you would realize whether to drop your idea or perhaps to focus on some detail aspect of it, such as levitation technologies. I have a fellow optics student whose dream project is to build teleportation technologies. No one is discouraging him, he will find out for himself whether it is a plausible research interest in this time. Besides my research ideas are very interesting and encouraged, there is plenty of work being done in the rearrangement of physical structures with the use of light.
What I refer to vibration will be supplied by radiation, light, electrical, magnetic, electromagnetic fields, and maybe other concepts as well. All of these can be constructed to contain structured variations that yield complex effects in the matter with which they interact.
I think chemistry will give me a fundamental foundation for my understanding of what tissue is composed of, and the interaction between light and matter on the quantum physics level which is where some of it takes place.

Ah, quantum, man.........of course. Why didn't I think of that eh? not much new there then. You have the equations to back that up I'm sure.

Feel free to post your quantum math here.

I will then complement this understanding by studying Histology (the study of human tissues) on the graduate level.

That should delay things nicely.

I won't deny that my research ideas in science come from the perceptions I have, however I will apply a pure scientific approach to these ideas.

Good luck

<snip>

 

[ReverendClog]

vision from feeling

Having laboured through this thread, I wish to offer a chance to resolve this once and for all. I propose myself as a subject for vision from feeling to diagnose.
I will provide independent verification from at least three physicians of the serious and incurable ailment I have just recently been diagnosed with to whichever testing commitee JREF deems able.
This will include test reports and c.a.t. scan and x-ray media. I will then allow Vision from feeling to 'examine' me with her ability.
I have no outwardly visible signs of illness, and ten other volunteers who have been independently examined and declared 'healthy' by medical doctors, (If this is acceptable by JREF, I will pay any and all medical expenses incurred in this process.), will also be examined by vision from feeling.
If she can identify and diagnose my ailment in detail, (and me of course), then, if JREF awards her the prize I will also add $10,000 us dollars to vision from feelings award.
I am by the way entirely serious about this and additionally will, if vision from feeling is successful, reimburse any expenses she incurs be they travel or loss of earnings etc incurred by attending the test.
BTW, I am able to do this because a sickness/life insurance policy has paid me out in view of the nature of my illness, and I have no dependents or beneficiary's and to be honest reading about peoples claims has given me a great deal of pleasure.
Anyhow if anyone would like to propose any modification to my suggestion or simply trash it, then feel free to my friend.

 

[tsig]

Now it's about 2300 words here and you still haven't answered UncaYimmy.
I don't think you are as crazy as some other people here do, I have worked with real ******** crazy people. I think you are merely a liar.

I agree all talk and no walk. Same lame runaround we have all seen many times over.

 

[Senex]

Having laboured through this thread, I wish to offer a chance to resolve this once and for all. I propose myself as a subject for vision from feeling to diagnose.
I will provide independent verification from at least three physicians of the serious and incurable ailment I have just recently been diagnosed with to whichever testing commitee JREF deems able.)

Whenever you think your life sucks you read something like this and are paused. I sincerly wish you the best.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Replies to page 21:

Jeff Corey:

Now I see the Xtra special thread is up and the uninvited cannot comment without PMing one of the duo.
Isn't that special. This forum allows a new format to meet a poster's "special needs" to focus on some concrete questions about the claim and to answer people who pose questions about the inconsistencies and weasel escape clauses?
Sometimes you people are so wimpy you're pathetic.

In my defense I was not the one who set up the "special thread" nor did I request one.

Why should a closed conversation be of any value? The person making the claims has not responded to a number of direct questions about the claims from a number of people. Why should restricting the questioner to one person with no special qualifications or reason to be asking the questions work better than a free for all? I would hope that people let them have their own tete a tete in private. No peeking, please.

This thread is flooded by a multitude of comments and criticism all taking place at the same time. A closed conversation might be easier to follow. And I have responded to every single question on this very thread! I have made very sure to do that! In my opinion UncaYimmy is qualified for this position in having presented both serious and aggressive skepticism as well as kindness and tolerance, communicative skills of both polarities. Also he spends plenty of time on this thread and has been with us all along. Not to say that some other members of this Forum would not also be qualified, but UncaYimmy is among those that I would personally qualify from my own position as both a skeptic and as a claimant. It is not to be a private conversation between two persons, the "special thread" is shared material.

desertgal:

To what purpose? Anita is hardly likely to post in a free for all thread when she has a protected thread in which she only has to answer selected questions by one poster.

I am definitely not abandoning my very own thread! I need this thread!

wardenclyffe:

She seems to enjoy posting both here and elsewhere. I don't know what purpose those posts served either. But whatever that purpose was/is, I think she'll still be around here. I could be completely wrong, but she likes posting----a lot.

I enjoy posting here. It's a lot of work but I need skeptics involved in my investigation.

Jeff Corey:

Doesn't this whole process strike you as a bit cumbersome and having the potential for censoring questions that are potentially valuable?

In such a case PM your comments to me and I will post them on your behalf and address them on the thread. I still believe in the possible benefits of a less overflooded discussions thread. Besides if I am successful in the tests I will be interviewed by many up ahead, conversations which you will not be able to participate in, so what's the harm of me and UncaYimmy talking?

wardenclyffe:

I'm certain that there are people in this thread who feel that their questions have gone unanswered. Anita can write and write and write and answer a whole bunch of questions, but never answer the important ones.

If there are questions that have not been answered please ask again, I do not intend to avoid any questions.

desertgal:

They could answer questions, or not answer questions, but everyone was free to ask those questions.

The intention of the thread is not to avoid questions. I believe it is to ensure that questions that are asked do get answered.

Jeff Corey:

Trust me, I've had these perceptions or strange feelings for over 60 years now. I get these aura type sensations that smell bad. There's something in the air. The OPer is either jerking you all around or is seriously deluded. I'm getting a B sound and a definite S. In my twelve year BPS program at Whatsmatta U. I have never been wrong about the things I was right about and this time I definitely predict that I will be right. Or maybe wrong, but if wrong, I will have predicted that it was a case that I would have been wrong about.
So sorry I can't communicate with you anymore right now, I have to take my final exam in Psychic Proctology, it's a no hands on lab test.

I certainly hope I did not come across that way!

Diogenes:

Do tell ? And why do you think that is ?
The violin player refuses to play ..

I absolutely do not refuse to demonstrate the alleged ability or to perform in a test. I have done what I thought a paranormal challenge applicant was to do, which ended up being "wait, and wait, and wait". I am now taking initiative toward a study that I plan on my own. It's a lot of work! Meanwhile I have college to worry about, and all else!

UncaYimmy:

Anita can choose to answer or not answer. She already does that in this thread and others. The difference is that in this thread non-answers and incomplete answers are lost and often forgotten in a deluge of text. That will be much more difficult in the proposed format.

And I was doing such a good job trying to answer every single question that was asked on this thread... And now you're all telling me I haven't. What questions are they? If we can stop talking about whether I am studying two B.S. degrees at the same time or not, whether my family thinks I am special, whether I think I am special, whether to have women on a vasectomy detection test, and other topics that lead nowhere, more time and effort would be dedicated to discussion that leads to progress.

Will Anita stop participating in other threads once this one starts? Who knows? I seriously doubt it based on her past behavior. If she does, it won't be because I am pitching her softballs and not asking her the hard questions.

I will stay in this thread at least until a conclusion has been reached in my investigation. I'm not going anywhere.

What I have proposed is similar to a private interview except that all correspondence is done out in the open. Instead of looking at it as a public thread taken private, think of it as a private thread taken public. You're not being kept out - you're being let in.

UncaYimmy and I had a private conversation a while back which I think we both felt was very productive. I have not done this with other Forum members. UncaYimmy is definitely showing taking initiative, and since it was his idea to begin the private thread there is no reason to deny him from being the interviewer if he wants to dedicate himself to this initiative.

desertgal:

"Don't forget that I am from a humble little town in Sweden. People who've known me my entire life don't think anything about me is unusual, they are used to it."

My interpretation was that you mentioned this humble town to indicate most people there were aware of your alleged ability, and unimpressed by it. I know the thread has moved on, and I don't mean to backtrack, but I realized that I may have misinterpreted that statement, and wanted to apologize if I did.

No, most people in my home town are not aware of that I have medical perceptions. I was just describing the type of persons that we are in my home town. That people who are my friends and family are "humble little town" people. No need to apologize, a lot of misconceptions take place on this thread, sometimes because people are quick to make assumptions, and sometimes because I was not clear enough with what I meant. I should equally apologize for being unclear, however it is not possible to give very elaborate answers at all times.

Locknar:

However, the "they are use to it" is the kicker that needs to be clarified. If folks in general are not witting to the ability - what exactly are they use to in the context of what VFF wrote?

People who know me well are used to me giving health descriptions to them.

desertgal:

By "humble town", I thought she meant that, since the town was small, most people there would have been aware of and supposedly accustomed to her alleged ability, since she grew up there.

I only share this ability with people who know me well.

Clairvoyance, ESP, whatever - nothing remains secret in a small town.

Well things that I keep secret and only confide with people who are closest to me remain secret.

It was a natural assumption, but, again, if I was wrong, Anita, I apologize.

Don't apologize, although thank you for clearing out misunderstandings with me. It was also I who wasn't clear enough with what I meant.

I do have to add, though, that I have to join the chorus of those who find your claim that people "get used" to your alleged ability more than a little disingenuous-whether intentional or not, I can't say. I have raised six kids, and, more significantly, my middle child is an autistic savant (think Rain Man with a piano). When a parent has a child with a remarkable ability, they don't "get used" to it. It remains as remarkable after 20 years as it was on the first day.

You claim an alleged ability that is unlike any other in the history of mankind. Speaking as a parent, I would not treat that as mundane as eyesight at any point. I would also have had every kind of test possible done, simply because an ability such as you are describing would warrant not only astonishment, but concern. It's the nature of a parent.

The medical perceptions are just part of who I am. My friends and family are used to it.

Diogenes:

It is when you claim to have vision that is superior to X-ray photography ..

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a vasectomy can not be detected with X-ray imaging. Remember that I claim to detect accurate health information, and that I do not claim to detect all information that is considered present. The precise limitations of when I do and do not detect information has not been established but hopefully will be with the study I am planning.

She claims to have never been wrong.

I do not recall a single case of having presented inaccurate health information based on my medical perceptions. I often expect to be wrong, and I am always open to the possibility, yet, not once so far. I apologize if that's difficult to accept. At least an upcoming study and future tests will give plenty of opportunity for inaccurate perceptions to be documented and presented here for everyone to see. I am not intentionally hiding inaccuracy, nor am I trying to compromise the quality of this investigation by trying to avoid encountering inaccuracy.

Moochie:

I have a strong feeling we won't see much of "Anita" hereabouts for a while.

?? I'm still here.

Diogenes:

You do understand the implications of " counting hits and ignoring misses " ?

When I claim to detect health information, it is then available to be checked for accuracy and if I am wrong, it will count as a miss and will not be ignored.

JWideman:

And if she says you have had one, and you say "Actually, one of my testicles is a prosthetic due to a rather awkward to explain injury.", she'll say "Ah ha! Testicles! A hit!"

No. I am much more specific than that. If your example here would occur it would count as a miss.

desertgal:

I was thinking, in Anita's case, her townsfolk might be apprehensive of her, more than anything. Think of all the unwed pregnancies, tummy tucks, and breast implants she could detect with just one glance.

The medical perceptions are not common knowledge in my home area. I was just describing the type of people.

And if she truly "senses what other people are feeling", then so much for keeping mental illness a secret. Or emotions. Or, really, anything.

Exactly. But I respect each person's privacy and integrity in the best and most honorable way possible.

Moochie:

"Anita's" use of the English language appears superior to that of many of the native English-speakers here, so I don't accept that she's from some "humble little town" in Sweden until I see some evidence.

Skeptics... I've been entirely honest, again, and now this. Thanks for the compliment though.

 

[skeen]

More of the same. Even Ghandi would have lost patience by now.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

UncaYimmy:

I take her word for it that she came from Sweden.

If anyone has any doubt of my origins and are bothered by it they can PM me and get my phone number and give me a call and hear my Swedish accent.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Anita -- When will you answer UncaYimmy's questions on the "interview" thread?

I assure you, most of us are more interested in that than in reading any more of your comments here. If you really use that other thread, it will be a boon to all concerned.

Best wishes, MK

 

[Hokulele]

No. I am much more specific than that. If your example here would occur it would count as a miss.

You behaved exactly as JWideman suggested with your reading of UncaYimmy.

Neck! Vertebrae! I knew it!

 

[Uncayimmy]

Anita, you have been wrong about medical information. You said that you can "sometimes" detect information in photos. You attempted that here at least twice as I recall. You failed. Does this at all call into question your prior belief about detecting conditions in photos or on TV? You *did* say you could do it sometimes.

On your website you describe a problem with the small intestine in a specific location immediately below the sternum. That's not where the small intestine is located. Thus, you are wrong. Period.

You also stated that someone's heart "absorbed" some kind of oil, possibly peanut. To the best of my knowledge no organs "absorb" any oils directly. Fats are broken down during digestion into other forms. What you're saying really doesn't make any sense. There could be fat in the heart muscle, but there's no "oil" that could be recognized as peanut or otherwise.
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/midorcas/animalphysiology/websites/2005/Castle/page3.htm

You also describe how "vertebrae do not slide freely from each other and are locked." The exact phrase vertebrae slide freely doesn't show up at all in Google. It's not clear at all what you're saying. Are you implying that his vertebrae are somehow fused?

In regards to the vasectomy you said you "saw that it was not the case of a simple incision but that a section had been removed." How could you possibly tell that? The vas deferens is always cut and cauterized. A small section *may* be removed, but how could anyone possibly tell? If I cut a string in half or take 1/2 inch out of the middle with two cuts, there's no way anyone could know unless they knew how long the string was originally. There's plenty of slack there.

As for your claims about stroke volume in the heart, that doesn't smell right to me. From my research it seems that normal people have a stroke volume of about 66%. SV x heart rate determines blood volume. If this guy's SV was 1/3 of normal, then his heart rate must have been going dangerously or even inhumanly fast to compensate *or* he was heading into shock. I'm no doctor, so I can't be certain. It just doesn't seem to make any sense.

You said that some person's "threshold from the stomach to the pyloric valve was set much higher than in most people." What the heck does that mean? Food passes from the stomach to the intestines via the pyloric sphincter.

You also said "I also saw that the kidneys were significantly larger than most people." Are you saying that you can see kidneys in every person you meet? How do you know?

 

[desertgal]

desertgal:
I am definitely not abandoning my very own thread! I need this thread!

You need this thread? For what?

desertgal:
I only share this ability with people who know me well.

Once again, that is an outright lie. I keep pointing this out to you, and you continue to ignore it, but that doesn't make it less of a lie.

Have You Had A Psychic or Ghost Experience - Post #81: "I'd love to meet your wife and I am sure I could describe her ailments to her in the exact way as she perceives them. If I detect an alternative treatment I can suggest it however I am not entitled to take the place of conventional medicine."

From Your website: "Dec 6 08: I used this ability on a new person who I had just met that day and I had received absolutely no information about his health condition..."

"Dec 3 08: I decided to confide in a person I recently met that I have an ability of perceiving and describing health information and asked if I could try this with him."

As well, you have set up a website, and posted about this alleged ability on several forums now, and offered diagnoses (which turned out to be wrong). That is NOT "only sharing this ability with people who know me well."

Moochie:
Skeptics... I've been entirely honest

You have NOT been entirely honest. See above.

Exactly. But I respect each person's privacy and integrity in the best and most honorable way possible.

Except when you need a campfire story for your website.