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Utrecht shooting

a_unique_person said:
Erdogan has been playing up the NZ massacre for all he could to incite fear and hatred. This was done purely to increase his political support. The NZ killer was hoping for something like this to happen, start a reprisals and then responses to those reprisals.
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And I would make very large bet that ISIS and other extremist Islamic groups are using the NZ shootings as the main item in their recruiting propaganda. Tarrant did them inteionally or not, a huge favor.
 
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a_unique_person said:
Such an inappropriate name for this type of murder.
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Totally agree there.
This would be the first time a killing like this was done in such a public place (to my knowledge). They do occasionally happen, unfortunately. But not this way.
 
The victims at this time appear to be:

An aunt of the perp (unconfirmed).
A father of two.
A nineteen-year-old girl.

The two last were shot as they tried to help the alleged aunt.
 
Incident don't have to have just one motive. And whatever motive the shooter eventually claims for the incident aren't necessarily the "real" motive. Plenty of actions, on the full spectrum from absolutely vile to purely noble, have both an emotional and an intellectual motive, oddly at times ones that contradict each other.

Maybe this "Honor Killing" was on his mind for a while and the NZ incident and/or the Erdogan's response egged him on. Maybe it was a terrorist attack that decided to target a family member for... reasons. Maybe the tiny elves that live in the guys head told him she was a Skrull who the hell knows.
 
Is that completely correct?

It mentions that she protected the killed woman with the headdress, but was killed by the killer..

But the only persons killed, were a 19 year woman from a small city just across the river (this could be her) and two men, both from Utrecht.
 
erwinl said:
Is that completely correct?

It mentions that she protected the killed woman with the headdress, but was killed by the killer..

But the only persons killed, were a 19 year woman from a small city just across the river (this could be her) and two men, both from Utrecht.
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I have learned since 9/11 that these situations are only slowly revealed to the public as the authorities sift through the unreliable witness accounts and rumours.

It's all fog of war at first.

But I'm surprised that this relatively small event still has a central piece missing after so many hours: the identity of the (apparently) first victim of this shooting. Now it has been made clear that none of the victims was related to the shooter, it may be that the shooter spared Muslim passengers and shot white ones. The authorities may have chosen to wait with this conclusion and let emotion subside a little bit to avoid a backlash. We'll have to wait.
 
erwinl said:
Is that completely correct?
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The photo and its caption are not from the BBC. I found that by Googling her name. I don'tknow what the caption says and just assumed it was a tribute to her from a friend. I would not necessarily assume that the caption contains facts about the incident.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Incident don't have to have just one motive. And whatever motive the shooter eventually claims for the incident aren't necessarily the "real" motive. Plenty of actions, on the full spectrum from absolutely vile to purely noble, have both an emotional and an intellectual motive, oddly at times ones that contradict each other.

Maybe this "Honor Killing" was on his mind for a while and the NZ incident and/or the Erdogan's response egged him on. Maybe it was a terrorist attack that decided to target a family member for... reasons. Maybe the tiny elves that live in the guys head told him she was a Skrull who the hell knows.
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The guy's motives are a jumbled mess. He's a druggie, a rapist and petty thief. But his use of language in the old video of him suggests he's also a Muslim fundamentalist. We've seen this combination many times where a petty criminal turns into a pious ideologue. If his motive is Jihad, it would not be an unfamiliar pattern.

I'm watching Gomorrah, a very gritty TV series about the Italian Mafia. These guys have some similarities (minus the religiously motivated violence). Selling heroin to kids on the one hand and being super religious on the other. It's more tribal identity than moral philosophy.
 
The picture originates from www.geenstijl.nl, as far as I can see.
Not one of the most trustworthy places on the internet.

The picture might very well be her, but don't be surprised if it is fake.
 
The photo is probably accurate...

Daily Mail said:
The boyfriend of a 19-year-old woman named as one of the victims of the 'terror motivated' shooting on a tram in the Dutch city of Utrecht on Monday morning has paid tribute to her today.

Roos Verschuur, 19, worked as a waitress in a snack bar in the suburb of Vianen and was caught up in the attack travelling through the city on her day off.

Miss Verschuur's boyfriend Wilmar Ijskes has today spoken of his grief, and told MailOnline: ‘She was beautiful and she was strong.

'She was my lovely girlfriend. This is a terrible tragedy.

'I can’t tell you what I feel about the man who killed her. I am too angry about it

'Roos was a very happy girl. Why would anybody do this to her?'...
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Daily Mail said:
A friend of the murdered teenager posted a picture of her on Facebook and said: 'Dear Roos... Words are too short... Much too young and still in the prime of life. Always in my memory girlfriend.'...
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Daily Mail said:
According to a witness interviewed on public service broadcaster NOS's Nieuwsuur, the perpetrator shouted 'Allah Akbar' - meaning 'God is Great' in Arabic - as he opened fire on bystanders.

Nicky van Grinsven was working nearby and rushed to the scene to help a wounded young woman after hearing the gunshots.

'She screamed at me that she felt nothing. That was the sign to me that she was paralyzed. She had got a bullet in her back."

He described seeing the perpetrator coming off the tram, some 30ft away, and said he began shooting at him and other bystanders....
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-waitress-shot-dead-tram-attack-Utrecht.html
 
God dammit people i need to know whether this is terrorism or not. If it were just some random nutjob that snapped i could rest easy but if it were terrorism I'd have trouble sleeping at night!
 
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