Universal Design

[Iacchus]

Well, but the chain of cause-effect/cause-effect/cause-effect still has to reach a mind before meaning of preceding cause/effects can be evaluated. And if we don't know how the causal chain evolved, then there are unknown potential meanings; but the meaning only applies to the parts of the chain we do know about.

In other words, if a causal-chain unfolds and no mind is there to evaluate it (at any point); it has no meaning; but it has potential meaning in that if a mind had been there to evaluate it, it would have evaluated meaning to it. But if a causal-chain has no impact, neither sensorily nor on the thought-landscape of a mind, then it is meaningless to that mind.

And if the Universe wasn't here as a whole, in other words non-existent, where would the meaning in that be?

 

[brian0918]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Universal Design

....

Do you plan on replying to anything I said in my original reply to your shotgun list of fine-tunings? Or will you simply ignore any debunkings and just assume the list is valid for future use?

Or, possibly, a combination of the two?

If you're going to reply to my post, reply to everything in it, not just a sentence or two. In particular, please reply to the big bold quote that I've provided from the talk.origins website. You should also read the talk.origins website that I provided. Any message that doesn't reply to everything in my post, point by point, will be considered an attempt avoid discussion, in which case, why are you even here?

(hope I don't sound too harsh, I just don't like people ignoring chunks of my post)

 

[Iacchus]

Yeah sweety, but what makes you so special?

Hey, might I suggest that if you feel there's something not being covered, that you start your own thread? And that way, maybe you can stop all the SHOUTING!!! and be a little less disruptive?

 

[Iacchus]

As I argues to Lifegazer, what if the creation of our Universe was accidental or an unintended consequence of something else.

The Grand Geometer finds that He has a Great and Urgent Need to make a Mighty Piss, and so he leaves his Drawing Table to go to the Heavenly Restroom. While He is creating Holy Urine, the great Cosmic Cat decides to stroll across the Drawing Table, and in this process spills the Bottle of Ink upon the Great Design.

What if this blot is the universe, and was unintended by the Creator?

A bit anthropomorphic don't you think?

However, it does state in the Bible that we were created in His image doesn't it?

 

[Iacchus]

At this point, I'm thinking that discussion will be more fruitful with Iacchus once he graduates elementary school.

Until he can understand that science looks at parts and at the whole, and analyzes them in relationship to each other, and OFTEN declares that a part is irrelevant to the whole, then further discussion is irrelevant.

This is the key failure of 'intelligent' design - too many parts that are irrelevant to the whole.

Or, perhaps the Universe is just too broad in its design in order for you to get the picture? So what if you don't understand how it all comes together, it's all here and accounted for isn't it?

 

[Iacchus]

What if I wear a dress?

That, I'm afraid you're going to have to discuss with your taylor.

 

[Iacchus]

No, you sad misguided fool. Our legs fit into pants perfectly. But there were legs before pants. Obviously our legs were designed by a supreme being to one day fit into the pants of the future.

It's all part of the supreme beings grand plan for a universe full of pants.

I pity your shortsightedness.

You're obviously being facetious here, right?

 

[brian0918]

Yeah sweety, but what makes you so special?

The fact that I'm always right helps.

Hey, might I suggest that if you feel there's something not being covered, that you start your own thread? And that way, maybe you can stop all the SHOUTING!!! and be a little less disruptive?

Shouting requires two things: all CAPS and/or exclamation points. What you are referring to is not shouting, but emphasizing.

 

[Iacchus]

Uh, yeah, so?

The purpose of a living being is to be alive.

What about a virus or a prion, they are life, yet they serve no 'pupose', the word 'purpose' on;y has the meaning assigned to it by a human or

What doesn't kill us, only serves to strengthen us ....

"Why do males have nipples?", theye xist yet they serve no purpose! So deign implies existance without purpose!

Perhaps, if nothing else, it serves to remind us that men are not altogether different from women and, that we all come from the same species?

Hmmm.
[yoda]
Meaning from nipples of males you can find , hmm?
[/yoda]

Maybe it serves to heighten the homosexual experience? Or, would you suggest there's no meaning to that either?

 

[brian0918]

What doesn't kill us, only serves to strengthen us ....


Perhaps, if nothing else, it serves to remind us that men are not altogether different from women and, that we all come from the same species?


Maybe it serves to heighten the homosexual experience? Or, would you suggest there's no meaning to that either?

You've ceased to make sense and have moved further into the realm of paranoid delusion. Keep up the good work.

 

[Cleopatra]

You've ceased to make sense and have moved into the realm of paranoid delusion. Keep up the good work.

Errrr.... actually no. This is Iacchus' style. Maybe you wish to browse his on-line book and see where he is coming from.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

 

[Iacchus]

Errrr.... actually no. This is Iacchus' style. Maybe you wish to browse his on-line book and see where he is coming from.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

Of course this is one of those very people who would imply there's no such thing as right and wrong. But, how could that be right? Ribbet ribbet ...

 

[brian0918]

Errrr.... actually no. This is Iacchus' style. Maybe you wish to browse his on-line book and see where he is coming from.

Welcome to the forum BTW.

Thanks. I used to post on the Bill Maher boards all the time. Then they switched locations and deleted all the old posts. Now it's just a lot of whining bastards. This seems like a nicer place for discussion, though ignorance is just as rampant as always.

 

[Iacchus]

By the way Cleo, this goes a long ways to express what I'm trying to say here ...

Functionality insists that, if you remove an item from the whole it in some way detracts from that whole. If you remove a cog from a watch, the watch may cease to function; therefore, we know the cog has a function.

Likewise, we know that if we remove a finger from a body, the body's functions become impaired, albeit slightly. This denotes that the finger has a function.

Intelligent design infers function toward a purpose, and insists that all parts of the whole further the totality of its purpose. The cogs of a watch all function toward the purpose of measuring the movement of time. The primary organs of the body all function toward the necessary processes to sustain life, reproduce, etc.

 

[Iacchus]

Thanks. I used to post on the Bill Maher boards all the time. Then they switched locations and deleted all the old posts. Now it's just a lot of whining bastards. This seems like a nicer place for discussion, though ignorance is just as rampant as always.

What is ignorance by the way, when there's no true meaning by which to gauge it? Or, are you suggesting we should all just assume the same things about life?

 

[brian0918]

Of course this is one of those very people who would imply there's no such thing as right and wrong. But, how could that be right? Ribbet ribbet ...

Of course there is no such thing as absolute right and wrong, good and bad. Only opinions of what is right and what is wrong exist. The opinion that is shared by the most "powerful" (either the majority, the elite, or some unknown combination of a variety of groups) becomes the "right" and "wrong" for that population. We back up our version of "right" and "wrong" with a police force and judicial body.

The fact that there is no absolute right or wrong doesn't prevent me from forming opinions on the matter, mind you. It also doesn't suggest that I am somehow "justifying" the actions of folks like Hitler, because use of the term "justify" implies absolute right or wrong, since my views differ drastically from folks like Hitler.

I'm not sure if I have prevented you from taking different (and yet, ultimately futile) paths of attack, or provided you with paths to take. I'm sure, in any case, you will continue providing us with one hilariously sad post after another.

 

[Iacchus]

Of course there is no such thing as absolute right and wrong, good and bad.

This must be an absolute statement then, right? Or, would that be wrong? Am afraid this is a choice you're going to have to make.

Is it possible that everything is relative to the absoluteness of the whole? In which case everything is absolute in that sense? ... including meaning?

Only opinions of what is right and what is wrong exist. The opinion that is shared by the most "powerful" (either the majority, the elite, or some unknown combination of a variety of groups) becomes the "right" and "wrong" for that population. We back up our version of "right" and "wrong" with a police force and judicial body.

Oh, absolutely!

The fact that there is no absolute right or wrong doesn't prevent me from forming opinions on the matter, mind you. It also doesn't suggest that I am somehow "justifying" the actions of folks like Hitler, because use of the term "justify" implies absolute right or wrong, since my views differ drastically from folks like Hitler.

Do you think it would be absolutely wrong for the body if you pointed a gun to your head and pulled the trigger? There would certainly be no (living) body after that would there?

I'm not sure if I have prevented you from taking different (and yet, ultimately futile) paths of attack, or provided you with paths to take. I'm sure, in any case, you will continue providing us with one hilariously sad post after another.

And this is your own opinion of course, right? Why should I let it concern me then? Because you carry a bigger stick perhaps? Boy, we better watch out for this guy!

 

[BillHoyt]

Do you think it would be absolutely wrong for the body if you pointed a gun to your head and pulled the trigger? There would certainly be no (living) body after that would there?

Wow. Your imagination is so impoverished you can't think of circumstances in which pulling the trigger is right?

You're aboard the first plane heading into the Trade Center. You have a gun, and more than enough bullets for all the hijackers. Certainly you should never ever pull the trigger. Never. Ever. ever.

What paucity of reasoning, imagination and ethical thinking this evinces.

 

[Iacchus]

This was in reference to doing yourself in by the way. In which case I ask, is destroying the body -- in any way, shape or form for that matter -- good for the body?

 

[Ratman_tf]

You're obviously being facetious here, right?

I often ask myself that question about you, Iacchus.