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Understanding the Liberal Mindset

the "i identify as a blank but i don't think that" is going to be something whenever you're generalizing a group. and i think that's also compounded by the fact that no matter how wacky a position is, you'll find someone, somewhere on the internet taking it.

it's pretty useful to look at the thought leaders of the groups, and what are they saying and doing?
 
dirtywick said:
the "i identify as a blank but i don't think that" is going to be something whenever you're generalizing a group. and i think that's also compounded by the fact that no matter how wacky a position is, you'll find someone, somewhere on the internet taking it.

it's pretty useful to look at the thought leaders of the groups, and what are they saying and doing?
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Yes, it is pretty useful. That's why I associate the liberal mindset on this forum with the most outspoken (and least gainsaid) liberals on this forum.

Honestly, I would welcome "I identify as a liberal but i don't think that" in this thread. That would be interesting. That would foster understanding. But no, people would rather let the worst takes cook unopposed, rather than try to improve the understanding and root out bad ideas.
 
theprestige said:
Yes, it is pretty useful. That's why I associate the liberal mindset on this forum with the most outspoken (and least gainsaid) liberals on this forum.
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oh, well that doesn't make a lot of sense to me but you do you i guess

theprestige said:
Honestly, I would welcome "I identify as a liberal but i don't think that" in this thread. That would be interesting. That would foster understanding. But no, people would rather let the worst takes cook unopposed, rather than try to improve the understanding and root out bad ideas.
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i don't really think your behavior in this thread gives the impression you're interested in that kind of discussion.
 
ahhell said:
This thread was doomed to fail at producing anything useful on account of how its started. Maybe a question like, for those of you describe yourself as X political persuasion, what do you think it means to be of x political persuasion would work better but probably not.

The problem with politics and political groupings, you kind of have to talk about them in generalities but as soon as you do you end up with someone who thinks you haven't got it quite right. You want to see the extreme of that, look at the libertarians. You practically can't find two of them that agree the other is a true Scotsman.
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The only "problems" are the ones conservative are creating by refusing to engage honestly.

Determining what a broad consensus of any particular group believes or thinks is fairly easy. We have things like polling data for that.

What the conservatives in this thread have been doing is using some right wing fantasy version of liberals untethered from any actual reality of liberal consensus beliefs.

So maybe stop doing that ◊◊◊◊ and this thread will no longer be "doomed".
 
theprestige said:
Yes, it is pretty useful. That's why I associate the liberal mindset on this forum with the most outspoken (and least gainsaid) liberals on this forum.

Honestly, I would welcome "I identify as a liberal but i don't think that" in this thread. That would be interesting. That would foster understanding. But no, people would rather let the worst takes cook unopposed, rather than try to improve the understanding and root out bad ideas.
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It's weird that you don't see how this asinine methodology would backfire on you.
 
Trausti said:
I would separate liberal from progressive, but the progressive mindset is so obvious. It assumes oppressor/oppressed power relationships, and always assumes the more powerful in this contrived relationship is bad.
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Well... duh. Yes. Oppression is bad.

A little surprised I have to say that, but there it is. Oppression is bad.

theprestige said:
But the thesis of this thread is understanding.
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No it isn't. It never has been. The thesis of this thread is conservatives lecturing us about what they think we believe.

theprestige said:
So what is it about the mindset AmyStrange portrays, that you dissent from? What part of it doesn't comport with your idea of a liberal mindset? Is he saying anything you don't agree with? Anything that doesn't represent the virtues of the liberal mindset as you understand them? Advance our understanding, if you think I've got something wrong.
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I've been trying to advance your understanding for years now, and got nowhere. But okay.

I dispute that there is a "mindset" at all. There are only people, and no two people are the same. I think the concept of a "liberal mindset" is a fiction that was invented in order to tribalise us. If you can throw us all onto the same canvas, you can paint us all with the same brush. It's another front in the culture war that the far-right is trying to wage, and like all the others, it is, when you get down to it, utter ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

The right loves simplicity. The right loves the binary. Black and white, good and evil (*cough* male and female *cough*), us and them. The real world is messy, and complicated, and extremely nonbinary, and the far right hates that. And they hate those of us who embrace it.

So no. The thesis of this thread is not, and never has been, to "understand the liberal mindset". It's to shove everybody who professes liberal opinions into a simple binary box that can then be kicked.
 
dirtywick said:
the "i identify as a blank but i don't think that" is going to be something whenever you're generalizing a group. and i think that's also compounded by the fact that no matter how wacky a position is, you'll find someone, somewhere on the internet taking it.

it's pretty useful to look at the thought leaders of the groups, and what are they saying and doing?
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Then you'd have folks saying, I'm an X that person isn't a thought leader!
 
arthwollipot said:
Well... duh. Yes. Oppression is bad.

A little surprised I have to say that, but there it is. Oppression is bad.


No it isn't. It never has been. The thesis of this thread is conservatives lecturing us about what they think we believe.


I've been trying to advance your understanding for years now, and got nowhere. But okay.

I dispute that there is a "mindset" at all. There are only people, and no two people are the same. I think the concept of a "liberal mindset" is a fiction that was invented in order to tribalise us. If you can throw us all onto the same canvas, you can paint us all with the same brush. It's another front in the culture war that the far-right is trying to wage, and like all the others, it is, when you get down to it, utter ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.
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Very well said.
arthwollipot said:
The right loves simplicity. The right loves the binary. Black and white, good and evil (*cough* male and female *cough*), us and them. The real world is messy, and complicated, and extremely nonbinary, and the far right hates that. And they hate those of us who embrace it.
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So so right. Few things in life are black and white. We can not fully understand another person and what they have gone through. We're lucky if we understand them 75%. Just because a situation is simple and easy for us, doesn't mean it is for them. I have expectations that others can and maybe should conquer their challenges. But life and people are unique. And judging others through our own lens is really unfair.
arthwollipot said:
So no. The thesis of this thread is not, and never has been, to "understand the liberal mindset". It's to shove everybody who professes liberal opinions into a simple binary box that can then be kicked.
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Yep. Even if they might have a handle on one of us, that is only one. I was employed by the King County Democratic Party for just under 3 years. My fellow employees and I often had policy arguments. Rarely, did we all agree. So the idea that anyone could make sweeping generalizations is absurd. And in this case, deliberately dishonest.
 
arthwollipot said:
Well... duh. Yes. Oppression is bad.

A little surprised I have to say that, but there it is. Oppression is bad.


No it isn't. It never has been. The thesis of this thread is conservatives lecturing us about what they think we believe.


I've been trying to advance your understanding for years now, and got nowhere. But okay.

I dispute that there is a "mindset" at all. There are only people, and no two people are the same. I think the concept of a "liberal mindset" is a fiction that was invented in order to tribalise us. If you can throw us all onto the same canvas, you can paint us all with the same brush. It's another front in the culture war that the far-right is trying to wage, and like all the others, it is, when you get down to it, utter ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

The right loves simplicity. The right loves the binary. Black and white, good and evil (*cough* male and female *cough*), us and them. The real world is messy, and complicated, and extremely nonbinary, and the far right hates that. And they hate those of us who embrace it.

So no. The thesis of this thread is not, and never has been, to "understand the liberal mindset". It's to shove everybody who professes liberal opinions into a simple binary box that can then be kicked.
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literally painting with a broad brush when saying the right likes to paint with a broad brush. That is actually a bias common to most people. From the outside all groups look more cohesive and aligned than they are and certainly more than they think of themselves. Outgrown homegenity, common across ideological boundaries.

I can also point to folks nominally on the left that have pretty manichean world views, so not really exclusive to the right either.
 
ahhell said:
literally painting with a broad brush when saying the right likes to paint with a broad brush. That is actually a bias common to most people. From the outside all groups look more cohesive and aligned than they are and certainly more than they think of themselves. Outgrown homegenity, common across ideological boundaries.

I can also point to folks nominally on the left that have pretty manichean world views, so not really exclusive to the right either.
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Art said "far-right". Are you claiming to be that now?

Maybe not all, but there certainly are many who fit Art's description, especially the fat clown and many of his maga weirdoes.

I'll shut up now.
 
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AmyStrange said:
Art said "far-right". Are you claiming to be that now?

Maybe not all, but there certainly are many who fit Art's description, especially the fat clown and many of his maga weirdoes.

I'll shut up now.
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To be fair, I also said...

arthwollipot said:
The right loves simplicity. The right loves the binary.
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I guess it's an "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" moment.
 
arthwollipot said:
To be fair, I also said...


I guess it's an "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" moment.
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Yeah, I doubt that ahhell got that far in your post, but that's just my opinion, and you know the rest.

If I'm wrong, I apologize ahhell.

Anyway, sorry, but I couldn't resist, and this will definitely be my last post of the night...

I've got some X-Files to watch, and some of my favorite episodes are coming up.
 
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arthwollipot said:
No it isn't. It never has been. The thesis of this thread is conservatives lecturing us about what they think we believe.
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i think you also have to put this in the context of current events. again i wouldn't consider myself a leftist necessarily to anyone who's not deep into the far right algorithm, so take it how you want but it doesn't really seem like the time to be worried about the woke. there's some pretty extreme stuff happening right now out of the looney tunes crazy right. they got time to worry about dei and the trans and the woke left, it's just pretty tired and irrelevant to me. if the critics of the left could maybe address some of these much worse things instead of getting defensive about the criticism of the extreme far right. if there were leftist masked squads running around arresting people at one of the many of charlie kirk's funerals while making comedy illegal again and taxing the billionaires to give it all to black people so they can outbreed you i'd say that's ◊◊◊◊◊◊ up too. i don't want my kids dying in venezuelan jungles anymore than i want them dying of measles.
 
I Am The Scum said:
A lot of it is just right-wing pandering that is so poor that it doesn't even rise to the level of "joke that didn't land." There appears to be no sincere attempt at humor whatsoever.

View attachment 67855
Anyone here is free to read the article themselves and point out the joke.
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You're right, It's not a joke. Conservatives don't do jokes. They don't laugh for joy or happiness, but to dominate over their enemies. Once you understand that, the idea of a Tony Stark-like Elon Musk saving Texans from the cold with a 'cobbled-together mech' makes perfect sense.

"How is it putting down the libs?", you say. The libs say Musk is a stupid grifter who never actually created anything himself. This 'joke' is a direct refutation of that. The laughter cames as they imagine libs being triggered by it.
 
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