UK - Train firm apologise for "ladies and gentlemen" announcement

[arthwollipot]

Trust is earned. Why should I trust anyone whose only practical application of nonbinary gender identity is to declare offense when people fall into traditional patterns of gender binary address?

Even furries do more practical stuff with their identity than nonbinaries.

What possible reason could you have to mistrust what someone says about their gender? Are you so suspicious of their motives? Just trust them.

And again. It is not about being offended. I don't know how often I have to say this. It is about being recognised and included for who they are.

How does some one know they don't fit into any specific gender if they have never been a specific gender

Obviously, since I am not nonbinary, I don't have personal knowledge. This is why I trust them when they ask me to use particular pronouns.

 

[d4m10n]

You kind of have to trust them.

I mean to ask, how can we know if we are one of the "people who feel they are either a male or a female," given that we've no direct insight into how females experience themselves and the world differently than males, or what it would mean to experience oneself and the world differently than both males and females.

 

[The Atheist]

Even furries do more practical stuff with their identity than nonbinaries.

Utterly nailed.

 

[Francesca R]

Bit left field

Apparently the non-binary person works as a guard for another train company.

The company he is complaining about used to be owned by the same as the other one, but they lost the franchise a coupe of years ago.

Mentioned already before.

I think it's really unlikely that staff employed by train operators are creating publicity due to a sense of corporate rivalry that I am sure the vast majority of them don't give a monkey's about.

Especially as almost all the country's trains are run by either the UK or foreign governments anyway

ETA although it is rather plausible that if this person works as a train guard they would be a lot more attuned to what guards say to passengers, and what policies require them to say.

 

[xjx388]

Just a friendly but stern reminder to 1)keep your posts focused on the arguments, not the arguers and 2)stick to the topic of the thread, which is not trans/non-binary/gender issues in general. Please keep that conversation to the moderated thread. Thanks for your help!

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: xjx388

 

[Emily's Cat]

I've taken to saying "Hi friends!"

Greeting, fellow meat-sack pilots!

 

[Emily's Cat]

On one hand.. meh. On the other, is this kind of the happy holidays/merry christmas complaint reframed?

If the agnostics caused a row over being wished a Happy Xmas, yes.

This really hits the nail on the head.

 

[Belz...]

I mean to ask, how can we know if we are one of the "people who feel they are either a male or a female," given that we've no direct insight into how females experience themselves and the world differently than males, or what it would mean to experience oneself and the world differently than both males and females.

I don't even know how other men experience anything. I only know me, and I have no idea if my experience is more like the typical man or woman. And it doesn't matter, because "experience" isn't what makes me a man.

I think this is again a question of definitions. That one doesn't match the social expectations or the common behaviours of a woman doesn't mean they're a man or neither sex. It has nothing to do with anything.

And so, I have no idea what the person in the OP was complaining about, really.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But all the while LNER thought the complaint was stupid but that if they didn't respond there would be bad publicity in The Sun or somewhere.

Erm. . . .

Well, the original complaint was made on twatter, I believe. A lack of response their could well have resulted in an avalanche of accusations of bigotry. A response resulted in an article about it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Emily's Cat]

How can we know if this person possesses "a teen mindset?"

because they bitched about "ladies and gentlemen" not being inclusive enough for their non-binary identity.

And adulty-adult would have understood it as a canned generic greeting without any particular meaning beyond courtesy, and gone on about their day without complaint, because they know damned good and well that it does not matter at all.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Meh, I don't know. People even here use "grow up" to indicate that someone is acting like a child. And you're using "validity" as a buzzword, so there's that.

Maybe the announcement made the legal entity feel unsafe?

 

[Emily's Cat]

(I almost missed the artfully-inserted mocking of LGBTQIA+ people as "the alphabet people" - nice work!)

When an acronym gets so long that there is literally a "+" added to it because it runs out of space... I think some light mocking of the acronym is in order.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I regard myself as psychologically androgynous (not masculine nor feminine). Do I need to re-define myself as nonbinary to feel excluded by 'Ladies and Gentleman'? This never occurred to me before.

I'm going for "gender atheist" these days.

 

[Emily's Cat]

So the very next kid I get on the line in a panic, I should simply tell him or her to "buckle up buttercup" and hang up the call. Meanwhile, I should also treat some twerp offended by a benign train announcement as though he/she/they matters.

Let the children die on the street because some jerk made something up? That is where your priorities are?

Don't be exclusive!

In case my snark is masking it, I think your general approach is the best and most compassionate one. Be there and put in effort for people who need it, and pretty much mock the delicate fragile beings who can't manage to get through their day because they felt 'excluded' by a generic courtesy.

 

[Emily's Cat]

For the record, I give zero craps about this announcement. Personally, I think that anyone who complains about a basic courtesy not being inclusive enough for their identity merits mild mockery. That their complain was taken seriously by the rail company merits moderate mockery. That anyone in this thread is actually seriously white knighting for the delicate flower that was made 'uncomfortable' by not being included by a PA announcement is frankly, ridiculous.

 

[Shepherd]

The train company could adopt the greeting made at the circus: "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen and children of all ages!" That last part can then euphemistically include these mentally stunted adults while still sounding innocent enough that they may not notice or even care!

I'd still advise that they test the greeting on a trainload or two before making it company policy, however, for at the circus the freaks are usually in the show instead of in the audience. ...and so, obviously, things are going to be a bit different with a crowd at a lesser county fair or on a bus or a train.

 

[catsmate]

What this world needs is fewer thin-skinned chronic malcontents who have nothing better to do than to look for reasons to be offended.

Indeed. If only the 'conservatives' and other self-appointed guardians of an old orthodoxy would stop their puerile whining.

 

[Aber]

That their complain was taken seriously by the rail company merits moderate mockery.

Taken seriously by the rail company's social media team, whose real time answers may or may not reflect formal policies.

 

[Darat]

For the record, I give zero craps about this announcement. Personally, I think that anyone who complains about a basic courtesy not being inclusive enough for their identity merits mild mockery. That their complain was taken seriously by the rail company merits moderate mockery. That anyone in this thread is actually seriously white knighting for the delicate flower that was made 'uncomfortable' by not being included by a PA announcement is frankly, ridiculous.

Any good company should be pleased to be informed staff aren’t following company policy.

 

[Elaedith]

Edited by xjx388: 

Removed moderated content.

The idea is: first separate gender from sex, then make gender trump sex where they conflict, then remove the distinction again (but now sex is determined by gender).

After all, if sex and gender are separate, then an announcement like 'Ladies and Gentlemen' does not exclude anyone because nonbinary people still have a biological sex and these terms can refer to that distinction. It is ideologically necessary to say that gender identity essentially overrides biological sex.

It will never happen because you cannot replace material reality with subjective constructs, regardless of the fantasies of postmodernists. No attempts to do so will end well.