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Was it? Who stated this? Whose purpose? The Pope may have had one view of the purpose of monarchy, the king who had just slaughtered his way to the throne another, and the peasants who were sick of all the fighting something else. Which of them gets to choose the purpose of monarchy?


You were the one that was using a definition of democracy that it was about purpose and arguing with me that the purpose of democracy being about the "will of the people" was "definitional".

You said this:

What did you mean that "realizing the will of the electorate - is essential"? If it is just a restatement of your definition, then it doesn't seem to have any additional information content, and I don't see how stating a definition refutes my claim that in practice democracy does not and can't reflect the will of the people in any useful degree.

I realise I am uncertain about something important here. Maybe the word "useful" is the key one in that last paragraph. What do you mean by "the will of the people? If the people got to vote on which of two people would rule them, but both of them represented views wildly at odds with the population - say it's Portland and they are offered the choice between two neo-Nazis.... would that in any sense be the will of the people? How about if they were choosing between two people they knew nothing about? If they held a referendum in North Korea where the people voting had no access to outside information, would that referendum usefully reflect the "will of the people"? What does "the will of the people" mean and how does representing it make society happy and peaceful?


You are the one who started talking about purpose. If we are just talking about what the thing does rather than it's purpose, then I disagree with your definition of democracy. Democracy does not give power to the people, or the will of the people in anything but a notional sense.
I'm going to bow out of the conversation again. We are *really* far apart on a number of issues, and I don't have the gumption to really see it through.

Maybe we'll cross paths again on another thread, hopefully we'll see eye-to-eye a bit more.
 
I'm going to bow out of the conversation again. We are *really* far apart on a number of issues, and I don't have the gumption to really see it through.

Maybe we'll cross paths again on another thread, hopefully we'll see eye-to-eye a bit more.
OK. A pity. It was interesting for me.
 
Latest revelation: Trump tried to use the NSA to support his election fraud claims.
The memo used the banal language of government bureaucracy, but the proposal it advocated was extreme: President Donald Trump should invoke the extraordinary powers of the National Security Agency and Defense Department to sift through raw electronic communications in an attempt to show that foreign powers had intervened in the 2020 election to help Joe Biden win.

Proof of foreign interference would “support next steps to defend the Constitution in a manner superior to current civilian-only judicial remedies,” argued the Dec. 18, 2020, memo, which was circulated among Trump allies.

The document, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post, laid out a plan for the president to appoint three men to lead this effort. One was a lawyer attached to a military intelligence unit; another was a veteran of the military who had been let go from his National Security Council job after claiming that Trump was under attack by deep-state forces including “globalists” and “Islamists.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/03/trump-nsa-election/

The more we learn, the clearer it becomes that we narrowly evaded an actual coup in January 2020.
 
If Trump had exerted himself 1/100th as much actually doing the job of president as he has trying to stay in or, somehow, return to office, he might have actually been re-elected in the first place. But, of course, that would have interrupted his golfing and tweeting, so was never going to happen.
 
Except, I'm not whining about it. I am merely pointing it out. The whining is coming from those who insist on denying it is a highly partisan committee, or people blaming it on the GOP. I am one person, maintaining a position despite constantly being challenged by numerous others.

Half of them are squealing, "it is the fault of the GOP", half of them are screeching, "it is not partisan!". It's funny to watch.

I mean, I am totally endorsing Dems using this opportunity to their advantage. Is that really "whining"?

Specifically, in what way is it "highly" partisan, as opposed to ambient partisanship?
O Oysters, said the Carpenter,
You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?'
But answer came there none.
 
No, they were talking about Dump losing in 2020, losing the House earlier and later the Senate when the 2 Georgia Senators were elected.

Well God Nose that the Wail Street Journal's big-joweled editors* have the Reputable Can Party's vert best interests close to their hearts. Just as I do, and don't you?



* Guess whose avatar I visualize when typing that? But no, I wouldn't smudge the WSJ as greasily as that.
 
Well God Nose that the Wail Street Journal's big-joweled editors* have the Reputable Can Party's vert best interests close to their hearts. Just as I do, and don't you?



* Guess whose avatar I visualize when typing that? But no, I wouldn't smudge the WSJ as greasily as that.
?????

Sorry, you lost me.
 

It was a bit disheartening to read that those 140 are mostly former Congress members and former Republicans who left the party due to its current extremism and control by and support for Trump. I was hoping they were current Congress members but, alas and alack, no. They belong to a new group, Renew America Movement, founded last July by "center right" conservatives/moderates who despise Trump and his rectal inhabitants.
 
Donald Trump Faces Growing GOP Revolt
Republican figures are "putting distance between themselves and Donald Trump," one Washington analyst told Newsweek on Tuesday; however another commented that many are "too afraid of their own voters to stage any kind of takedown of Trump from the top."

Republicans Against Trump
“Donald Trump is not representative of the Republican Party that I fell in love with.”
These are Republicans, former Republicans, conservatives, and former Trump voters who can’t support Trump for president this fall.



This one is an old article: More than 150 Republicans launch new political movement questioning Trump's role in GOP
 
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