Rolfe
Adult human female
Here's more about the insurance aspect of the FA capitulation. Amazing what a top insurance KC can bring to the table.
Transwomen are not Women - Part 15
- Thread starter d4m10n
- Start date
Rolfe
Adult human female
Scottish rowing now.
www.scottish-rowing.org.uk
Statement from the Board of Scottish Rowing on the Adoption of the British Rowing Trans and Non-Binary Competition and Eligibility Policy - Scottish Rowing
Scottish Rowing is the governing body for rowing in Scotland
www.scottish-rowing.org.uk
So in your view, trans women are women?
Rolfe
Adult human female
You mean, should the term "transgender woman" refer to a woman who has decided she wants to pretend to be a man? In my view, yes. But I don't make the rules.
This is absolutely beside the point. Lia Thomas’ times were way off the best women’s times. That is easy to verify. He would not win Olympic Hold medals. What the point is, he was denying women from competing for medals at college level, and winning medals unfairly.
The other point you should be aware of is that he would never have won any medals competing against men.
Rolfe
Adult human female
More on the Thomas-Henig double-act.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I have to admit to a certain sisterly fellow-feeling with the sentiments expressed by Prof Stock - though she has far more cause than I have to be incandescent.
It has been exhausting, listening to and reading the most counterfactual nonsense from people who should have had enough sense to know better, to know that men cannot turn into women no matter how much they want to (or vice versa), and to see that the whole thing was just the next move in the neverending campaign by some men to wield power over women.
There's still a long way to go, Canada and Australia are currently in an appalling mess and even in the USA and Britain we're having to deal with dangerous temper tantrums on the part of some very influential people. But by golly, it feels so good to be able to go into a female single-sex space and know that there won't be a man there, or if there is, that the law is on the side of any woman who wants to tell him to sling his hook. I have been stressing about this since 2018, when I was booking youth hostel accommodation.
It must feel even better to those girls and young women who have been scolded and disciplined into silence when they objected to boys and young men in their school toilets and their sporting events. I suppose the next issue (after ensuring that men are excluded from female hospital wards and female prisons) is the halting of the all-out transgender attack on young people which has caused such untold damage by leading impressionable children to believe they could be whichever sex they chose, and introducing hypersexualised, explicit content as "sex education" to children still young enough to believe in the tooth fairy. I just hope it doesn't take another 15 years.
It has been exhausting, listening to and reading the most counterfactual nonsense from people who should have had enough sense to know better, to know that men cannot turn into women no matter how much they want to (or vice versa), and to see that the whole thing was just the next move in the neverending campaign by some men to wield power over women.
There's still a long way to go, Canada and Australia are currently in an appalling mess and even in the USA and Britain we're having to deal with dangerous temper tantrums on the part of some very influential people. But by golly, it feels so good to be able to go into a female single-sex space and know that there won't be a man there, or if there is, that the law is on the side of any woman who wants to tell him to sling his hook. I have been stressing about this since 2018, when I was booking youth hostel accommodation.
It must feel even better to those girls and young women who have been scolded and disciplined into silence when they objected to boys and young men in their school toilets and their sporting events. I suppose the next issue (after ensuring that men are excluded from female hospital wards and female prisons) is the halting of the all-out transgender attack on young people which has caused such untold damage by leading impressionable children to believe they could be whichever sex they chose, and introducing hypersexualised, explicit content as "sex education" to children still young enough to believe in the tooth fairy. I just hope it doesn't take another 15 years.
angrysoba
Philosophile
I know what the point is and I have said repeatedly that I agree with those points. But that doesn’t excuse us from making things up.
angrysoba
Philosophile
This is not in evidence.
In the one mile, I have already posted the winning swim of that year in the one mile (which was the event in which Thomas won by 38 seconds). The winner, Paige McKenna swam almost twenty seconds faster than Thomas, and another six or seven swimmers in the same race beat that Zippy Invitational time.
And that was far from the record, let alone a “record that would never be broken”.
The record swimmer in the women’s races is Katie Ledecky, something you would expect smartcooky to know if he was such an avid follower of Olympic swimming as he claims….
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Indeed. Its is never the point that a transwoman might not push the times in elite level competitions. Those in the pro-trans crowd are desperate to push this as not being an issue at lower levels. They couldn't be more wrong... in fact the presence of transwomen in women's sport is more damaging to participants at lower levels. Every transwoman (i.e. biological MALE) who is allowed to compete in women's competitions, blocks the advancement pathways for women.
In many indivudal sports, particularly professional ones, invitations to tournaments and competitions are based on rankings, and "cuts" (like a cut in a golf tournament where only the top 64 after Thursday and Friday, go on to play the weekend). Every transwoman in the rankings, pushes a woman down the rankings.... if the cut line is, say, 100, and you have 5 transwomen in the top 100, the five women who would have been ranked 96 to 100 are pushed back to below the cut line, and they miss playing at tournaments that would earn them their income. They are financially disadvantaged by the presence of those transwoman.
Allowing transwomen to compete in women's sporting competititons amounts to officially permitted cheating!
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Rolfe
Adult human female
This is nice.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Right, so why spend so much time making an argument that is patently false?
Rolfe
Adult human female
In my continuing quest to understand this latest iteration of the South Sea Bubble and Tulip Fever (not great analogies, but whole populations being invested in an absolutely nonsensical belief isn't that common) I seem to have identified two types of trans-cult adherents.
One is the person who believes implicitly that trans-identifying men are the most marginalised, the most oppressed demographic on the planet. (Evidence that most of them are white middle-aged heterosexual men, the most privileged group on the planet, and that they have businesses, governments and law enforcement dancing to their tune is regularly ignored.) The other unshakeable belief is that these people are quiet, unassuming, considerate types who would never knowingly upset anyone and only want to get on with their lives (and pee, of course). Any individual TIM who doesn't conform to this stereotype is either not typical so the unassuming types must not be tarred with the same brush, or only pretending, "not true trans". The point that, genuine or not, letting any TIM into women's spaces inevitably involves letting these ones in inter alia is ignored. (What actually constitutes "true trans" is also left in the air, possibly a soul that was issued with the wrong body by a careless stork.) Most of this group are male, although by no means all.
The other is the worshipper at the shrine of the "transkid", the 21st century version of the indigo child. These children, who might not even have learned to count yet, know their ineffable gender essence so completely and so reliably that the only thing to do is to agree with them and set them on a pathway that leads inexorably to drugs that stunt growth, dissolve bone strength and drop IQ by several points, and then mutilating surgery that will leave them sterile and anorgasmic. Because if that isn't done, they will kill themselves. Therefore this Mengelian régime is described as "life-saving treatment". Any exploratory counselling to try to discover why the child feels like that is "conversion therapy" and must be prohibited by law, along with ECT to "cure" homosexuality. Women seem to predominate in this group, though not absolutely overwhelmingly, and of course some examples espouse both narratives.
There are going to be theses and books written about this for decades. The psychology of the groupthink that can sweep people along on such a ludicrous train of belief, and the false and sophistical arguments advanced to bolster the tenets of the cult. I hope I live long enough to see it all play out, because it's going to take a while.
One is the person who believes implicitly that trans-identifying men are the most marginalised, the most oppressed demographic on the planet. (Evidence that most of them are white middle-aged heterosexual men, the most privileged group on the planet, and that they have businesses, governments and law enforcement dancing to their tune is regularly ignored.) The other unshakeable belief is that these people are quiet, unassuming, considerate types who would never knowingly upset anyone and only want to get on with their lives (and pee, of course). Any individual TIM who doesn't conform to this stereotype is either not typical so the unassuming types must not be tarred with the same brush, or only pretending, "not true trans". The point that, genuine or not, letting any TIM into women's spaces inevitably involves letting these ones in inter alia is ignored. (What actually constitutes "true trans" is also left in the air, possibly a soul that was issued with the wrong body by a careless stork.) Most of this group are male, although by no means all.
The other is the worshipper at the shrine of the "transkid", the 21st century version of the indigo child. These children, who might not even have learned to count yet, know their ineffable gender essence so completely and so reliably that the only thing to do is to agree with them and set them on a pathway that leads inexorably to drugs that stunt growth, dissolve bone strength and drop IQ by several points, and then mutilating surgery that will leave them sterile and anorgasmic. Because if that isn't done, they will kill themselves. Therefore this Mengelian régime is described as "life-saving treatment". Any exploratory counselling to try to discover why the child feels like that is "conversion therapy" and must be prohibited by law, along with ECT to "cure" homosexuality. Women seem to predominate in this group, though not absolutely overwhelmingly, and of course some examples espouse both narratives.
There are going to be theses and books written about this for decades. The psychology of the groupthink that can sweep people along on such a ludicrous train of belief, and the false and sophistical arguments advanced to bolster the tenets of the cult. I hope I live long enough to see it all play out, because it's going to take a while.
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2003
- Messages
- 61,576
The mere fact that Thomas was even competing in the 50 meter AND the 1650 meter events is in itself remarkable.
One mile in swimming is long distance. The fact that Usain Bolt might run a slower marathon than the women marathon runners is not evidence that men don’t have an unfair advantage, or that Bolt should be allowed to compete against women. Plus, you got the comparison wrong. Ledecky’s record is for the 1500 meter event. 1500 meters is noticeably less than a mile. You cannot compare 1500 meters event times to 1 mile events. The fact that Ledecke swam 1500 meters in 15:25.48 while Thomas swam 1650 in 15:59.41 isn’t proof that Ledecke is faster, because that’s a SLOWER rate given the 10% longer distance they swim. If Ledecke kept her same pace, she would have swam 1650 in about 16:58, almost a minute slower. And assuming the same pace for a longer race is generous to Ledecke.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Not my claim. I have not said men should compete against women. I have explicitly said they should not.
How about this?
Ledecky swam 1650 in a time of 15:03.92.
Again, you seem to have lost track of the conversation.
I am not saying that Thomas should be swimmin with the women. I have explicitly argued otherwise.
I am saying there are women who would blow Thomas out of the water.
Others on here insisting that Thomas swims faster than any woman ever has or could and so resorted to pretending to be slower are just wrong.
Ledecky Wins 1650 By a Minute, Breaks American, NCAA Records at OSU
2016 OHIO STATE INVITATIONAL Live results Meet info Hosted by Ohio State University Friday, November 18th-Sunday, November 20th 25 yards Invite format One
swimswam.com
angrysoba
Philosophile
Besides, Ziggurat, it seems to be you who are getting mixed up here.
In swimming, the one mile is 1650 yards, not metres.
Also, apparently Thomas has not competed in the 50 metres but Ledecky has. So Ledecky, in this situation is the Usain Bolt who also turns out to be a damn good marathon runner.
In swimming, the one mile is 1650 yards, not metres.
Also, apparently Thomas has not competed in the 50 metres but Ledecky has. So Ledecky, in this situation is the Usain Bolt who also turns out to be a damn good marathon runner.
Rolfe
Adult human female
When I was at school a mile was 1760 yards.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Doesn’t matter. It doesn’t apply in the pool, apparently, only in open water swims such as a triathlon.
Who has said that in this forum? I don’t think I’ve seen that.Others on here insisting that Thomas swims faster than any woman ever has or could and so resorted to pretending to be slower are just wrong.
Ledecky Wins 1650 By a Minute, Breaks American, NCAA Records at OSU
2016 OHIO STATE INVITATIONAL Live results Meet info Hosted by Ohio State University Friday, November 18th-Sunday, November 20th 25 yards Invite format One
I was half hoping that Thomas was selected for the US Olympic team so I could see the Australian women destroy him.
As others have pointed out, it is at the lower levels of swimming (and there are many important college events at this level) where the unfair advantages of transwomen are clear.
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It was and still is.