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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

jeremyp said:
The gun ownership rate is actually per 100. So the USA has 120 guns per 100 people or 1.2 each on average.

This however, is the wrong statistic, because there is a difference between everybody owning one gun and one person owning 300 million guns. You need to look at the number of people per 100 who own or have easy access to at least one gun.
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Point is, there are many countries that have a much lower gun ownership rate than the USA and yet have a much higher murder rate.

Clearly the logic that "more guns=more murders" simply is irrational.
 
Hercules56 said:
Greenland has 20% the gun ownership rare of the USA, but 80% of our murder rate. How is this possible?
(...)
How can a nation that has a much lower gun ownership rate than the USA have a much higher murder rate?
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In 2019, there were four homicides in Greenland.
Number of deaths in Greenland in 2019, by cause of death (Statista)
(Notice the number of suicides!!!)

On Jan 1, 1990, there was a mass shooting. Seven were killed: Narsaq massacre (Wikipedia).
The murderer was "drunk at the time of the crime" and "was later diagnosed as suffering from narcissistic personality disorder."

A study:
Purpose: Homicide in Greenland has not often been investigated. The latest published study documented a dramatic rise in the homicide rate from around 1/100,000 inhabitants to more than 23/100,000 inhabitants from 1946 to 1984.
The aim of our study was to characterize homicides in Greenland from 1985 to 2010 and to compare trends during this period with those in previous studies and with homicide characteristics in Denmark, northern Europe, and other Arctic regions.

Methods: We identified a total of 281 homicides by legal definition and 194 by medical definition, the latter from the years 1990 to 2010. We procured case files for a total of 129 victims (71 male, 58 female) and 117 perpetrators (85 male, 32 female).

Results: We identified an overall decrease in the homicide rate during our study period. The decrease in the medical homicide rate was significant (p = 0.007). The homicide rate ranged from 25/100,000 inhabitants to 13/100,000 inhabitants when results were grouped within 5-year periods. There were significantly more male perpetrators (p < 0.001) and among female perpetrators there were significantly more male victims (p < 0.001). Sharp force and gunshot-related killings dominated homicide methods (41 and 29 % respectively), with sharp force deaths increasing throughout the investigation period. Altercations were the main motive (49 %). Alcohol-related homicides decreased in our study period.

Conclusions: While the Greenlandic homicide rate has decreased, it is markedly higher compared to that seen in Denmark and northern Europe. However, it resembles the rate seen in the rest of the Arctic. Liberal gun laws do not affect the proportion of gun-related killings. Despite the high homicide rate, women account for almost half the victims.
Homicide in Greenland 1985-2010 (ResearchGate)
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See also:
Antallet af drab i Grønland er kolossalt højt, men det falder. Langt størstedelen af drabene sker i affekt og begås af folk, der har et misbrug, viser nyt forskningsprojekt.
(...)
»Det er faldet fra mere end 23 drab per 100.000 indbyggere til cirka 16 drab per 100.000. Til sammenligning ligger et land som Danmark på cirka 1 per 100.000, så Grønland har stadig en meget høj rate,« siger Martin Rune Christensen.
Færre drab i Grønland (Videnskab.dk, April 28, 2016)
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The number of homicides in Greenland is extremely high, but it is decreasing. The vast majority of homicides are spontaneous, not premeditated. A new study shows that hey are committed by substance abusers.
(...)
"It (the homicide rate) has decreased from more than 23 homicides per 100,000 to approximately 16 homicides per 100,000. In comparison, a country like Denmark is at approximately 1 per 100,000, so Greenland's rate is still very high," says Martin Rune Christensen.
Fewer homicides in Greenland

My own guess would have been that alcohol plays a major role. I don't know what other substances are available in Greenland nowadays.

But why choose Greenland for a comparison with the USA? Choose countries with somewhat similar living conditions as the USA instead of Greenland, Haiti and Jamaica.
You make the same mistake as Sweden's state epidemiologist during the beginning of the pandemic: Instead of comparing Sweden's COVID-19 death toll with the other Nordics (in particular Norway and Finland, which have very similar living conditions), Anders Tegnell insisted on comparing Sweden (population density: 26 per km2) with the Central European country Belgium (population density: 376 per km2).
The sole purpose of this exercise was to 'prove' that Sweden's death toll had nothing to do with the country's pandemic strategy: herd-immunity-by-infection. (While claiming that Sweden's death toll was higher than Finland's and Norway's because of ... Sweden's population density!)

You cherry-pick three countries with high homicide rates and ignore that they are all former colonies with corresponding living conditions.
 
Hercules56 said:
Point is, there are many countries that have a much lower gun ownership rate than the USA and yet have a much higher murder rate.

Clearly the logic that "more guns=more murders" simply is irrational.
Click to expand...


No, it isn't. You are cherry-picking. See post above!
 
Hercules56 said:
Almost every country that has a higher murder rate than the USA has a much lower gun ownership rate.

This is a fact.
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With a small population of gangs/warlords doing all the killing. And the island countries used as pit stops for gun running are too small to effectively police themselves.

Come on, brah. Comparing us to the bottom of the barrel is not the flex you think it is.
 
Thermal said:
With a small population of gangs/warlords doing all the killing. And the island countries used as pit stops for gun running are too small to effectively police themselves.

Come on, brah. Comparing us to the bottom of the barrel is not the flex you think it is.
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Bottom of the barrel??

That's like Trump calling them all "**** hole" countries.
 
Hercules56 said:
The USA has a lower murder rate than:

Jamaica
U.S. Virgin Islands
South Africa 
Saint Lucia *
Honduras *
Lesotho *
Belize *
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Saint Kitts and Nevis *
Trinidad and Tobago *
Bahamas Americas
Saint Martin
Myanmar *
Anguilla
Mexico *
Colombia *
Brazil *
Nigeria *
Guatemala *
Venezuela *
El Salvador *
Antigua and Barbuda Americas
Curaçao
Saint Pierre
Guyana *
Iraq.
Eritrea
South Sudan
Ecuador 
Dominica
French Guiana
Haiti *
Eswatini
Panama *
Namibia *
Barbados
Costa Rica *
Palau
Nicaragua
Bermuda
Botswana
Dominican Republic 
Iraq
Papua New Guinea 
Uruguay
Ethiopia *
Uganda
British Virgin Islands
Paraguay *
Kiribati
Russia *



and a much higher gun ownership rate than ALL of them.
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All countries that you are no doubt proud to be compared to :p.

ETA - European and East Asian countries are notably absent from that list.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Bottom of the barrel??

That's like Trump calling them all "**** hole" countries.
Click to expand...

You're dodging. Care to compare rates with nations actually comparable to the States, instead of small islands and ******* Russia?

Let's compare murder rates with the other countries in the G7 for starters. You game, or you want to stick with comparing the United ******* States to some of the smallest island territories on the planet?

ETA: here, I checked it out for ya:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1374211/g7-country-homicide-rate/

USA! USA! USA!
 
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Hercules56 said:
Greenland has 20% the gun ownership rare of the USA, but 80% of our murder rate. How is this possible?

Haiti has a gun ownership rate of 2.7 per 100,000, but almost double America's murder rate. How is this possible?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Jamaica's gun ownership rate is 8.8 per 100,000, murder rate is 52 per 100,000.

How can this be?


USA has a murder rate of 6.8 per 100,000, gun ownership rate of 120 per 100,000.

How can a nation that has a much lower gun ownership rate than the USA have a much higher murder rate?
Click to expand...

You are rubbish at gaslighting.
 
Hercules56 said:
Point is, there are many countries that have a much lower gun ownership rate than the USA and yet have a much higher murder rate.

Clearly the logic that "more guns=more murders" simply is irrational.
Click to expand...

Compare like for like, and countries around the Western World, and the USA stands out as the firearms death capital. You are right that more guns should not necessarily mean more murders. The issues are that

1 - the USA has lost control of many of its guns, so that a lot of people who should not have access to firearms do so. No other country allows that level of easy access.

2 - the number of rapid, multiple fire weapons that are available in the US, mean that when people start to shoot, they are more likely to hit others. Mass shootings are harder when the types of gun are restricted, such as the UK, where it is shotguns and other firearms are single shot, with a maximum of three before the gun has to reloaded.
 
Hercules56 said:
Point is, there are many countries that have a much lower gun ownership rate than the USA and yet have a much higher murder rate.

Clearly the logic that "more guns=more murders" simply is irrational.
Click to expand...

No. The logic is "more people who own guns = more murders". That the correlation is not perfect does not make the relationship generally untrue.
 
i don't think you guys have truly considered that there's no explanation for why US gun crimes are so much worse than most of the world, and therefore nothing can be done
 
The point was made that there are many countries that have much lower gun ownership rates than the USA and yet have a much higher murder rate. Only the countries turn out to be third world, post-colonial countries plus South Africa and Russia.

It's the kind of talking point that would be applauded on a gun owner's forum but shrugged at by others.

[IMGW=400]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1478&pictureid=13839[/IMGW]
 
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