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TN Republicans Voting to Expel 3 Democrats from State House of Representatives

Solitaire said:
Representatives who are expelled can return to their office — by being
appointed by the commission and/or by running again. The state constitution
also says a lawmaker can't be expelled a second time for the same offense.
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If you get expelled after robbing a stage coach and you get back in.
They cannot throw you out no matter the number of stage coaches
you rob afterwords?

.
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I read that as a poorly-worded summation of double jeopardy.
If re-elected, they cannot be expelled for things they did this week.

Of course, with people as morally bankrupt as the GOP, I’m sure they’ll be able to find some trumped-up charges to use for a different expulsion vote. Naturally that course of action is dependent on not having some murderous, they’re-coming-for-mah-guns lunatic execute the “insurrectionists.”
 
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I think the best approach is for the Dems to harp on the point “virtually all gun owners know someone who has a gun who shouldn’t have a gun. What if we work on stopping those people from buying more guns.”

The quiet part that does not need to be said out loud is “and if you can’t think of anyone, there’s a good chance that you are the guy who shouldn’t have guns.”
 
Ladewig said:
I read that as a poorly-worded summation of double jeopardy.
If re-elected, they cannot be expelled for things they did this week.

Of course, with people as morally bankrupt as the GOP, I’m sure they’ll be able to find some trumped-up charges to use for a different expulsion vote. Naturally that course of action is dependent on not having some murderous, they’re-coming-for-mah-guns lunatic execute the “insurrectionists.”
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The GQP will expel them for any reason, or no reason at all. By being young Black males, they violate the GQP definition of "decorum."

The only rule Republicans follow is "Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules!"
 
shemp said:
The GQP will expel them for any reason, or no reason at all. By being young Black males, they violate the GQP definition of "decorum."

The only rule Republicans follow is "Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules!"
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It may surprise one to learn then that Tennessee nevertheless retains a reasonable number (albeit a decided minority) of Democratic representatives; a hefty percentage of whom are of African-American descent. The three individuals who were considered for expulsion joined a crowd of people that barged in while the legislature was in session (if I understand correctly?) to protest gun violence.

I don't believe expulsion was at all an appropriate response; and I am deeply concerned by general US policy regarding firearms. And, of course, I don't trust the Tennessee legislature a millimeter regarding racism. And, yes, the GOP (or GQP) are astounding hypocrites. But.... let's not pretend that was nothing.
 
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Shadowdweller said:
It may surprise one to learn then that Tennessee nevertheless retains a reasonable number (albeit a decided minority) of Democratic representatives; a hefty percentage of whom are of African-American descent. The three individuals who were considered for expulsion joined a crowd of people that barged in while the legislature was in session (if I understand correctly?) to protest gun violence.

[snip]
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So three of the representatives invited fellow citizens in to voice their views. That shouldn't be a problem.
 
quadraginta said:
So three of the representatives invited fellow citizens in to voice their views. That shouldn't be a problem.
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Would the January 6 rioters have been justified in breaking onto the congressional floor then and speaking THEIR mind, had they been unarmed and not threatening violence against anyone in your estimation? Imbeciles and extremists though they may have been, certainly not every single one was violent. Would one be justified in breaking into a court room and then drowning out participants in a trial with bullhorns?

I've got to admit, I'm not entirely certain I agree or disagree. There are times and ways I feel that it's justified to be disruptive for a political cause. And others where I don't believe it is. I would generally be much more inclined to expel a child molester, perpetrator of domestic violence, or individual who thought it was ok to urinate in another's chair than someone who spoke or protested out of turn, of course. Though I doubt that drowning out others with bullhorns is very persuasive.
 
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Shadowdweller said:
It may surprise one to learn then that Tennessee nevertheless retains a reasonable number (albeit a decided minority) of Democratic representatives; a hefty percentage of whom are of African-American descent. The three individuals who were considered for expulsion joined a crowd of people that barged in while the legislature was in session (if I understand correctly?) to protest gun violence. I don't believe expulsion was at all an appropriate response; and I am deeply concerned by general US policy regarding firearms. And, of course, I don't trust the Tennessee legislature a millimeter regarding racism. And, yes, the GOP (or GQP) are astounding hypocrites. But.... let's not pretend that was nothing.
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Yes, that is what happened. No, it was not "nothing"; they deserved to be fined but not expelled.
 
Shadowdweller said:
It may surprise one to learn then that Tennessee nevertheless retains a reasonable number (albeit a decided minority) of Democratic representatives; a hefty percentage of whom are of African-American descent. The three individuals who were considered for expulsion joined a crowd of people that barged in while the legislature was in session (if I understand correctly?) to protest gun violence.

I don't believe expulsion was at all an appropriate response; and I am deeply concerned by general US policy regarding firearms. And, of course, I don't trust the Tennessee legislature a millimeter regarding racism. And, yes, the GOP (or GQP) are astounding hypocrites. But.... let's not pretend that was nothing.
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As I heard it, the protestors barged into the public gallery of the House and started protesting. The three politicians in question joined in with that protest from the House floor.

On March 30, hundreds of protesters gathered at Tennessee's state capitol in Nashville, calling for tighter gun control laws after three 9-year-olds and three adults were killed in a shooting at The Covenant School, a private grade school in the city. It was the first day that the state's legislature had taken up bills since the shooting.

Protesters lined the hallways before entering the galleries of the House and Senate chambers, chanting and shouting.

On the House floor, the three representatives brought proceedings to a halt. Jones and Pearson led chants through a bullhorn as legislators instituted a recess. Video filmed by a Republican on the house floor during the event — also a violation of the legislature's rules, Democrats contended on Thursday — showed the three speaking on the floor as demonstrators could be heard in the background.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tennessee-expulsion-house-democrats-expelled-what-happens-now/
 
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There's a simple test to determine your own truth. Ask yourself "What would my feelings be about this had the participants been Trump supporters?"
 
Shadowdweller said:
Would the January 6 rioters have been justified in breaking onto the congressional floor then and speaking THEIR mind, had they been unarmed and not threatening violence against anyone in your estimation? Imbeciles and extremists though they may have been, certainly not every single one was violent. Would one be justified in breaking into a court room and then drowning out participants in a trial with bullhorns?

[snip]
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I was being somewhat facetious. I guess I should have included a smiley.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
There's a simple test to determine your own truth. Ask yourself "What would my feelings be about this had the participants been Trump supporters?"
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Hmm, concern for people being shot in schools on a painfully regular basis vs over-armed lunatic cultists supporters working for the feefees of a sociopathic narcissist.

Hmmm, such a valid comparison.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
There's a simple test to determine your own truth. Ask yourself "What would my feelings be about this had the participants been Trump supporters?"
Click to expand...
That's not a simple test. It's a simpleton test - it is not even the least bit equivalent to the MAGA insurrectionists.

Did these protesters break windows to gain entry? Dress up with furs, horns and face-paint? Come with zip-ties to tie up any victims? Hurt people and smash things? Smear their feces on the walls? Steal stuff while laughing about it? Put their feet up on politicians' desks and brag about it on social media? Claim they were going to capture and hang some supposed target person they were told to hate?

All that and more from MAGAts. Any right-wing GOP politicians who supported the putsch get expelled from Congress or the Senate? Nope, they tried to pretend they had nothing to do with it. Was the instigator removed? Nope, the GOP ensured he was not.

Just a noisy protest from the public gallery in Tennessee, which was perfectly legal btw. And what happens? Two Dem politicians expelled. By the GOP.

Yep, I think we determined our own truth just fine, thanks.
 
Solitaire said:
What!

If you get expelled after robbing a stage coach and you get back in.
They cannot throw you out no matter the number of stage coaches
you rob afterwords?
Click to expand...

IANAL, but I would guess it’s like double jeopardy. They could not be removed a second time for robbing that first stage coach, but they could for each subsequent stage coach. Each robbery is a new offense.
 
Norman Alexander said:
That's not a simple test. It's a simpleton test - it is not even the least bit equivalent to the MAGA insurrectionists.

Did these protesters break windows to gain entry? Dress up with furs, horns and face-paint? Come with zip-ties to tie up any victims? Hurt people and smash things? Smear their feces on the walls? Steal stuff while laughing about it? Put their feet up on politicians' desks and brag about it on social media? Claim they were going to capture and hang some supposed target person they were told to hate?

All that and more from MAGAts. Any right-wing GOP politicians who supported the putsch get expelled from Congress or the Senate? Nope, they tried to pretend they had nothing to do with it. Was the instigator removed? Nope, the GOP ensured he was not.

Just a noisy protest from the public gallery in Tennessee, which was perfectly legal btw. And what happens? Two Dem politicians expelled. By the GOP.

Yep, I think we determined our own truth just fine, thanks.
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You know Norman, I'd like to point out that I didn't mention the events of Jan 6th. Just suggested asking yourself a question.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I was just making the comparison you didn't have the balls to make.
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Ad hominem: this type of fallacy is sometimes called name calling or the personal attack fallacy. This type of fallacy occurs when someone attacks the person instead of attacking his or her argument.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Ad hominem: this type of fallacy is sometimes called name calling or the personal attack fallacy. This type of fallacy occurs when someone attacks the person instead of attacking his or her argument.
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Nice definition, but Norman did not do that.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
There's a simple test to determine your own truth. Ask yourself "What would my feelings be about this had the participants been Trump supporters?"
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Fair question. Let's say there were 3 Trump supporters, two White one Black, doing exactly the same behavior in a Dem controlled State House of Representatives. Just to add specificity.

What I would expect is that, first all 3 would be treated the same way for the same offense. Second, I'd expect them to be reprimanded, possibly fined, but certainly not expelled.

If they were advocating violence, that would probably rise to the level of expulsion. If they were openly carrying and dog whistling for violence, I'd hope they were expelled, but doubt the Dems would do it.

ETA And I would hope and expect there'd be some sort of due process involved.
 
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