Thinking about Hurricanes...note the date...

[headscratcher4]

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=9754

This writer understood in May what could happen and how....but I suspect this wasn't on FEMA or Homeland Security's reading list...

 

[Rolfe]

This one, too! - from the National Geographic, October of last year. In another thread, someone has suggested that this one is so prescient it could be eligible for the million dollars!

Why wasn't there a button to press and a plan worked out that people just had to spring into action with? OK, it would still have been extremely difficult and many lives would still have been lost, but surely there should have been some planning ahead?

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, and this one - from the Scientific American in 2001.

Might as well keep the collection all in the one place for handy reference.

Rolfe.

 

[webfusion]

when the levees break...

"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees"
-- George Bush, Good Morning America (see video)


http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtl?itemId=17845

Back from Vacation.

As CIC, the best thing that Pres. Bush could do now is actually order a nuclear detonation on New Orleans. All the people who aren't willing to leave would then have a very good incentive to do so. They will be given fair warning.

An atomic explosion would vaporize the disease-laden waters, and in one minute, clear the land of all the useless buildings (which need to be demolished anyway).

Just wait until the prevailing winds are blowing out over the Gulf, and drop the bomb.

I welcome any scientific evidence showing why this is not a valid solution to the intractable problem facing this Lame Duck President.

 

[Luke T.]

New Orleans news article following Hurricane Ivan one year ago

Ivan exposes flaws in N.O.'s disaster plans
05:09 PM CDT on Sunday, September 19, 2004

By KEVIN McGILL
Associated Press

Those who had the money to flee Hurricane Ivan ran into hours-long traffic jams. Those too poor to leave the city had to find their own shelter - a policy that was eventually reversed, but only a few hours before the deadly storm struck land.

New Orleans dodged the knockout punch many feared from the hurricane, but the storm exposed what some say are significant flaws in the Big Easy's civil disaster plans.

Much of New Orleans is below sea level, kept dry by a system of pumps and levees. As Ivan charged through the Gulf of Mexico, more than a million people were urged to flee. Forecasters warned that a direct hit on the city could send torrents of Mississippi River backwash over the city's levees, creating a 20-foot-deep cesspool of human and industrial waste.

Advocates for the poor were indignant.

"If the government asks people to evacuate, the government has some responsibility to provide an option for those people who can't evacuate and are at the whim of Mother Nature," said Joe Cook of the New Orleans ACLU.

The ACLU was indignant!

Mayor Ray Nagin's spokeswoman, Tanzie Jones, insisted that there was no reluctance at City Hall to open the Superdome, but said the evacuation was the top priority.

"Our main focus is to get the people out of the city," she said.

"We did the compassionate thing by opening the shelter," Nagin said. "We wanted to make sure we didn't have a repeat performance of what happened before.We didn't want to see people cooped up in the Superdome for days."

Note the date!

Gov. Kathleen Blanco and Nagin both acknowledged the need to improve traffic flow and said state police should consider reversing highway lanes earlier.

Earlier! Must act earlier!

 

[WildCat]

Earlier! Must act earlier!

Luke, this is a FEMA/Bush-bashing thread. You are not allowed to point out that the primary responsibility for preventing this disaster was w/ local officials, nor that the Feds aren't even allowed to do a damn thing until asked by the locals.

Now, carry on w/ the blinders-on bashing...

 

[WildCat]

Also, it was not known that NO was below sea level until exactly 3 seconds after Bush took office. If the Clinton/Gore admin had known about this, you can bet your life that something would have been done!

BTW, the below sea level thing was kept secret, preventing anyone in LA from knowing about it lest it cause panic or hurt the tourism business.

 

[WildCat]

C'mon Bush-bashers, whip out that line about how "it happened on his watch". That really gets 'em riled up over at the Democratic Underground!

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

If there was a plan or not all the commander in cheif had to do was say "I want 20,000 troops and all available helicopters there in 24 hours" and it would have happend. Thats the bottom line at the end of the day.

Im in the guard my time was actually up over a year ago but I have been involuntarily extended. They called us last friday and told us to get ready. Why didnt they call us the morning after and why have we not left yet? I dont understand it either me and hundreds of others in my unit are sitting around with bags packed ready to roll all they have to do is give us the keys and say go, Its not like the hungry people are hard to find and we have to wait on sattelite recon or something.

 

[WildCat]

If there was a plan or not all the commander in cheif had to do was say "I want 20,000 troops and all available helicopters there in 24 hours" and it would have happend. Thats the bottom line at the end of the day.

Im in the guard my time was actually up over a year ago but I have been involuntarily extended. They called us last friday and told us to get ready. Why didnt they call us the morning after and why have we not left yet? I dont understand it either me and hundreds of others in my unit are sitting around with bags packed ready to roll all they have to do is give us the keys and say go, Its not like the hungry people are hard to find and we have to wait on sattelite recon or something.

If you are in the guard you know that only the governor can call up the NG for stateside duty. The POTUS can't.

eta: So when did Governor "blame the feds" call up the guard?

 

[stamenflicker]

Rolfe,

Why wasn't there a button to press and a plan worked out that people just had to spring into action with? OK, it would still have been extremely difficult and many lives would still have been lost, but surely there should have been some planning ahead?

There was, it just wasn't acted upon. Here's my last post on the planning issue:

I don't know if this website has been visited or linked to by anyone on this forum, but here is the city's disaster response plan: http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

I pulled a few exerpts from it in my post:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61894&perpage=40&pagenumber=4

Flick

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

If you are in the guard you know that only the governor can call up the NG for stateside duty. The POTUS can't.

eta: So when did Governor "blame the feds" call up the guard?

The feds can take control of the guard whenever they want to. Look up what happened when they tried to use the guard in the south to keep blacks out of schools. Was that not stateside?

Do you really think every individual Governor is sending troops to Iraq? HAHAHA no way they are being activated by the feds. Do you think the Governor's have any say what goes on in Iraq and who goes there? What a rediculous notion you have. The commander in chief does not need state permission to activate anybody.

Bottom line is even if you are right if the president said send in the troops now, I would have been in NO by dinner the next day passing out water.

He just sat there for a week Im sure with a dumb look on his face until someone told him what to do. Just like when he was told about the WTC and just blanked out before deciding that reading the childrens book was the best course of action.

 

[WildCat]

The feds can take control of the guard whenever they want to. Look up what happened when they tried to use the guard in the south to keep blacks out of schools. Was that not stateside?

The POTUS can send them in to enforce a court decision, this only happened in Alabama when Kennedy did so. In Arkansas, the governor himself ordered the guard to escort the students to class.

Do you really think every individual Governor is sending troops to Iraq? HAHAHA no way they are being activated by the feds. Do you think the Governor's have any say what goes on in Iraq and who goes there? What a rediculous notion you have. The commander in chief does not need state permission to activate anybody.

What part of stateside don't you understand? And I maintain that the POTUS does need the governors permission to activate anybody stateside, w/ the exception noted above. If you have evidence that's not true, I'd love to see it.

Bottom line is even if you are right if the president said send in the troops now, I would have been in NO by dinner the next day passing out water.

If I'm right he couldn't so you wouldn't...

He just sat there for a week Im sure with a dumb look on his face until someone told him what to do. Just like when he was told about the WTC and just blanked out before deciding that reading the childrens book was the best course of action.

1 week? Really? That would be yesterday... nice Michael Moore reference btw.

 

[Luke T.]

If there was a plan or not all the commander in cheif had to do was say "I want 20,000 troops and all available helicopters there in 24 hours" and it would have happend. Thats the bottom line at the end of the day.

Im in the guard my time was actually up over a year ago but I have been involuntarily extended. They called us last friday and told us to get ready. Why didnt they call us the morning after and why have we not left yet? I dont understand it either me and hundreds of others in my unit are sitting around with bags packed ready to roll all they have to do is give us the keys and say go, Its not like the hungry people are hard to find and we have to wait on sattelite recon or something.

I was active duty for 20 years and was involuntarilty extended six months past my retirement date. In 2000. Way before Bush and 9/11 and Iraq.

When there was an emergency crisis in Haiti, my ship was called into the situation. They came and notified our command right in the middle of a change of command ceremony. It still took us three days to get properly supplied and to get underway. That is the fastest I have ever seen any naval unit respond to anything of substance. It may be different in the Army, I don't know.

Sure, we could respond immediately to a temporary situation. And we could respond immediately to a long term situation if we were already deployed, and we did exactly that when we were pulled in the middle of the night from Bosnia to rush to the Persian Gulf.

The situation in NO is stabilized. You are probably being held in reserve to be used as relief for the troops that are already involved in the relief effort.

 

[Luke T.]

Frankly, I am stunned that in light of the fact that the Democratic Governor of Louisiana refused Bush's request that she turn the disaster relief effort over to the feds, that Bush's critics are upset he did not turn all dicator-like and usurp her and take over anyway.

She not only refused the request, she sought out Clinton's FEMA director for advice.

That is partisanship to the max.

 

[Mark]

C'mon Bush-bashers, whip out that line about how "it happened on his watch". That really gets 'em riled up over at the Democratic Underground!

What would you hold Bush responsible for? Just curious...because I sure can't think of anything.

Please note that on another thread, I already mentioned that Clinton and Bush Sr. also ignored the warnings from the Army Corps of Engineers. But then, I don't make excuses for incompetence based on party affiliation.

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

He is at the top of the chain the buck stops with him. If the commander in chief says jump the military jumps even the guard red tape and signatures are a small concern.

Forget the guard if you must what about the reserves and full timers? Convoys and rescue teams could have been on the way from Benning/Hood/Polk/Jackson/Gordon/etc .... in less than a day so why werent they?

3 days to get a ship ready is different there is nothing complicated about loading trucks with water and food. When we go to annual training it takes a few hours to pack up the trucks and move out its no great logistical feat.

Give me the keys, I know where the warehouse is, thousands of starving people will have food by dinner tomorrow whats so complicated?

If the commander in chief says get choppers in the air or I want supplies and troops anywhere NOW it happens, just that simple.

 

[Mark]

He is at the top of the chain the buck stops with him.

Not with this administration. Ever.

 

[WildCat]

What would you hold Bush responsible for? Just curious...because I sure can't think of anything.

Please note that on another thread, I already mentioned that Clinton and Bush Sr. also ignored the warnings from the Army Corps of Engineers. But then, I don't make excuses for incompetence based on party affiliation.

I've said on another thread that I thought that FEMA/Bush were slow to react.

What I'm objecting to here is the purely partisan blame game headscratcher et al are playing. Digging up magazine articles from the last few years as if nobody knew NO was in grave danger from hurricanes until very recently. What purpose is this, other than to take gratuitous pot shots at the admin.? Meanwhile, no blame is placed, no threads are started on Mayor Nagin, Gov. Blanco, or Sen. Landrieu, none of which showed the slightest bit of leadership in this crisis. None of which did a damn thing to prepare the city for the evacuation plan that was in place. None of which bothered to stock the Superdome or convention center (the places they told those who didn't evacuate to go) w/ food, water, or medical resources. None of which, nor their predecessors, did a thing to upgrade the levees in the 36 years since Camille. Hmmm, wonder why that is... let me think here... oh yeah! They're Democrats! Therefore, everything must be the fault of FEMA and Bush!

 

[WildCat]

He is at the top of the chain the buck stops with him. If the commander in chief says jump the military jumps even the guard red tape and signatures are a small concern.

Forget the guard if you must what about the reserves and full timers? Convoys and rescue teams could have been on the way from Benning/Hood/Polk/Jackson/Gordon/etc .... in less than a day so why werent they?

3 days to get a ship ready is different there is nothing complicated about loading trucks with water and food. When we go to annual training it takes a few hours to pack up the trucks and move out its no great logistical feat.

Give me the keys, I know where the warehouse is, thousands of starving people will have food by dinner tomorrow whats so complicated?

If the commander in chief says get choppers in the air or I want supplies and troops anywhere NOW it happens, just that simple.

Dude, those are serious laws you're asking the Feds to break, not some bureaucratic red tape.