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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 30

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Perugia detective who arrested Knox and Sollecito, today sentenced to 3 years three months in prison for abuse of authority.

https://etrurianews.it/2020/09/20/o...EdNKPYDX072cV6iexLOd9MwzsEOAp90fKFVg5bEFgLhZU

Of note, this newspiece refers to the March 2015 action of the Italian Supreme Court as an acquital....


Wasn't that to do with something completely outwith the Knox/Sollecito case? Looking up police records without authorisation to dig up dirt on an ex-husband or something?

It's the same in the UK, any Home Office employer looking up police records just to snoop on others are likely to be prosecuted, and quite rightly too.
 
This conviction is a reminder of that some of the key Perugian police involved in the Kercher case were apparently willing to commit abusive acts for their own benefit. Therefore, they could likewise have committed such acts to close the Kercher murder case quickly and get their medals.

Here's a Google translation, with my help, of this 20 September 2020 article:



Note: the highlighted words in the last paragraph are translated from "innocenti" and "assolse", respectively. The facts as acknowledged by the Etruria News is that Knox and Sollecito were finally (definitively) acquitted and are thus innocent of the charges of the crimes committed against Kercher.

You are ignorant of the law if you did not know the courts did NOT find the pair innocent.

You'll be quoting National Enquirer next.
 
Google translate:



You note, the hearing that was scheduled 'was ceased today'.

Do you understand how settlements work? They happen before or during a hearing and this immediately brings proceedings to a halt if the judge agrees.

You just keep digging that hole deeper, Vix. I'm sure in your mind you'll somehow dig yourself out of it.

 

Here's an accurate translation of the quotation from Il Giornale given by Methos in post #1001, 14 July 2019, Continuation 29.

First, the Italian text:

Maybe because "Il giornale" in an article titled: "Sollecito assolto dall'accusa di vilipendio alle forze dell'ordine" reported that:

È arrivata l'assoluzione per Raffaele Sollecito, che di fronte alla magistratura di Firenze doveva rispondere dell'accusa di vilipendio alle forze dell'ordine, accusato per alcuni passaggi di "Honor bound, il mio viaggio all'inferno e ritorno con Amanda Knox".

Per il giudice toscano "il fatto non sussiste" e dunque i passaggi del memoir pubblicato negli Stati Uniti sulla vicenda giudiziaria legata all'omicidio della studentessa ingese Meredith Kercher, non sono sufficienti a sostenere l'accusa nei suoi confronti.

Assolto ieri anche lo scrittore Andrew Gumbel, che con Sollecito aveva scritto il libro, mai uscito in Italia. All'interno una ricostruzione delle indagini svolte dal magistrato Giuliano Mignini ritenuta "lesiva". Il giudice aveva sporto querela per alcuni dei brani di "Honor bound", per poi ritirarla, lasciando in piedi soltanto l'accusa di vilipendio, che è venuta meno oggi.

"Si è chiusa un'altra pagina legata alla dolorosa vicenda dell'omicidio di Meredith Kercher e Raffaele è stato ancora dichiarato estraneo ai fatti", ha commentato dopo la sentenza uno dei due legali che seguiva Sollecito, Alfredo Brizioli.

Now, the Google translation - with my help using Collins Reverso:

The acquittal has arrived for Raffaele Sollecito, who before the judiciary of Florence had to answer for the {criminal} accusation of vilification {libelous defamation of authorities} of the police, an accusation based upon some passages of "Honor Bound, My Journey to Hell and Back with Amanda Knox".

For the Tuscan judge, "the fact does not exist" {that is, the judge pronounced an acquittal because no crime of vilification had occurred in Italy in this case} and therefore the passages of the memoir published in the United States on the legal matter linked to the murder of the English student Meredith Kercher, are not sufficient to support the accusation against them {Sollecito and Gumbel}.

Writer Andrew Gumbel, who with Sollecito had written the book, {which was} never released in Italy, was also acquitted yesterday. Inside, {the book} a reconstruction {description} of the investigations carried out by the magistrate {prosecutor} Giuliano Mignini was considered "damaging" {to the reputation of Mignini and the police}. The judge (sic; should be prosecutor Mignini) had filed a complaint {for vilification; a criminal offense and a civil tort - lawsuit - in Italy} {against Sollecito and Gumbel} for some of the passages of "Honor Bound", and then withdrew it {the civil part of the complaint}, leaving standing only the {criminal} accusation of vilification, which failed today {because of the acquittal}.

"Another page related to the painful affair of the murder of Meredith Kercher has closed and Raffaele has still been declared unrelated to the facts {acquitted for not having committed the act}", commented one of the two lawyers who followed Sollecito, Alfredo Brizioli, after the verdict {of acquittal was pronounced}.

According to Colllins Reverso, the Italian word "ritirarla" translates to "withdraw" or "retire". The phrase "venuta meno" translates to "failed" (literally, "came to a minus" or "came to nothing").
 
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James Raper - his real name - is or was a defence lawyer. He is an entirely trustworthy source. He knew the family and often dropped by messages for them in person. James Raper said Arline is buried next to Meredith, so if the clerk at the gate cannot find Arline on her list of graves, ask them simply look up Meredith instead. It is possible, having divorced Arline reverted to a maiden name. Who knows? Or perhaps she used her middle name. It is a common practice.

No, what I said was, it is common for people to be known during life by their middle name or a nickname, or diminutive, but official records show their full name.

No, that's not what you said. Not at all. She was not known by her middle name, nor a diminutive, nor her maiden name. She was known as Arline Kercher. She was referred to as Arline Kercher by her ex-husbandand by the media. Never anything else. Why don't you try pulling the other one and see if anyone falls for it?

It is also conventional for an agent or family member to inform the press. Sometimes we do not know of the death of a famous person until weeks later.

According to James Raper, it's been months later. Since June 11. Is she still not buried? What are they waiting for?

Arline was known as Meredith Kercher's mother. She is not in the category of celebrity. John Kercher's death was in the street with a suspicion of a hit and run driver so the information probably came from the police looking for witnesses.

No, John K was not found in the street. He was found on the pavement (US: sidewalk). No, she wasn't a celebrity, but she would still merit a mention in the tabloids....and a record of burial in the frickin cemetery records under her name. Where she is not.
 
Wasn't that to do with something completely outwith the Knox/Sollecito case? Looking up police records without authorisation to dig up dirt on an ex-husband or something?

It's the same in the UK, any Home Office employer looking up police records just to snoop on others are likely to be prosecuted, and quite rightly too.

Yes, completely unrelated to the Knox/Sollecito case. She harassed a court appointed psychologist who testified that Napoleoni's husband should retain his visitation rights. But what's relevant is that if Napoleoni would break the law and enlist other police to help her do it and get them to lie about it (which they did) then that certainly undermines their credibility when it comes to their honesty regarding the Knox and Sollecito interrogations. Story details below, pre-conviction:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amanda...lian-detectives-impact-the-latest-knox-trial/
 
Now, now, Numbers. Apparently, you don't understand how being acquitted works. I'm sure Vixen will be along to explain it to you.
 
Wasn't that to do with something completely outwith the Knox/Sollecito case? Looking up police records without authorisation to dig up dirt on an ex-husband or something?

Yup. Note what Numbers observed above.....

This conviction is a reminder of that some of the key Perugian police involved in the Kercher case were apparently willing to commit abusive acts for their own benefit.*
I thought that you'd appreciate the parallels, given that guilter-nutters spent years claiming that Knox's 2007 noise ticket back in Seattle somehow predisposed her to commit murder!
 
Yup. Note what Numbers observed above.....

This conviction is a reminder of that some of the key Perugian police involved in the Kercher case were apparently willing to commit abusive acts for their own benefit.*
I thought that you'd appreciate the parallels, given that guilter-nutters spent years claiming that Knox's 2007 noise ticket back in Seattle somehow predisposed her to commit murder!

I thought pulling an April Fool's Day prank on a roommate in college was evidence of her predisposition to murder? Of course, the award for compassion her high school created specifically for her which I cited earlier in this thread was also evidence of her predisposition for murder. :rolleyes:
 
Look. You asked. I tried to help. No good deed goes unpunished.

In the UK and in Europe there are strict personal privacy laws. If a friend or relative of a person who has been in the news doesn't announce a piece of personal news, such as on Facebook, the press don't either. The press gets its information from press releases, interviewing people directly or social media.

I fully understand that having swallowed whole the endless lies of Knox and Sollecito, you are wary of trusting anything as true!

Just a reminder it is Vixen who tells endless lies and not Amanda and Raffaele

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11938562#post11938562

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11942852#post11942852

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11598412#post11598412

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11427461#post11427461

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11951893#post11951893

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11982023#post11982023

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12107306#post12107306

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12200863#post12200863

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12297573#post12297573

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12297575#post12297575

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=13170726#post13170726
 
Now, now, Numbers. Apparently, you don't understand how being acquitted works. I'm sure Vixen will be along to explain it to you.

How being acquitted works is certainly a good question.

Another good question is why the judge acquitted Sollecito and Gumbel of the criminal charge of vilification of the police.

Was it because Honor Bound was not published in Italy, and was not even published in an Italian language version, and so the alleged crime of vilification of the police and prosecutor Mignini was not committed in Italy?

Or was it because the prosecutor of the case could not find evidence that contradicted the truth of the statements alleged to be damaging to the reputations of the police and prosecutor Mignini?

Or were both reasons accepted by the acquitting court?

Apparently there was no appeal by the prosecution, so the acquittal is final, as similarly the acquittal of Knox on the charge of calunnia against the police became final because the prosecutor did not appeal.
 
How being acquitted works is certainly a good question.

Another good question is why the judge acquitted Sollecito and Gumbel of the criminal charge of vilification of the police.

Was it because Honor Bound was not published in Italy, and was not even published in an Italian language version, and so the alleged crime of vilification of the police and prosecutor Mignini was not committed in Italy?

Or was it because the prosecutor of the case could not find evidence that contradicted the truth of the statements alleged to be damaging to the reputations of the police and prosecutor Mignini?

IIRC the trial was delayed when the judge asked Mignini to supply Italian translations of the alleged offending statements from Honor Bound.

I lost interest in the progress of that trial, until all charges were dropped. IIRC the main offence Mignini claimed, was the allegation in Honor Bound that Mignini had offered Sollecito a deal if he would testify against Knox. Why that claim was deemed offensive is beyond me.
 
IIRC the trial was delayed when the judge asked Mignini to supply Italian translations of the alleged offending statements from Honor Bound.

I lost interest in the progress of that trial, until all charges were dropped. IIRC the main offence Mignini claimed, was the allegation in Honor Bound that Mignini had offered Sollecito a deal if he would testify against Knox. Why that claim was deemed offensive is beyond me.

I think that's because plea deals like that are illegal in Italy. Not that I wouldn't put Mignini above 'suggesting' such a thing. Sort of like suggesting AK and RS were only witnesses informed of events instead of suspects so they didn't require lawyers. Or Donnino suggesting Knox had amnesia which is why she couldn't remember going to the cottage. Or the police suggesting Knox heard Kercher screaming or meeting Lumumba and taking him to the cottage.
 
How being acquitted works is certainly a good question.

Another good question is why the judge acquitted Sollecito and Gumbel of the criminal charge of vilification of the police.

Was it because Honor Bound was not published in Italy, and was not even published in an Italian language version, and so the alleged crime of vilification of the police and prosecutor Mignini was not committed in Italy?

Or was it because the prosecutor of the case could not find evidence that contradicted the truth of the statements alleged to be damaging to the reputations of the police and prosecutor Mignini?

Or were both reasons accepted by the acquitting court?

Apparently there was no appeal by the prosecution, so the acquittal is final, as similarly the acquittal of Knox on the charge of calunnia against the police became final because the prosecutor did not appeal.

Finding the exact charges under which Sollecito and Gumbel were tried and acquitted would be of interest. Most likely, the primary charge would be defamation by a publication, covered by Italian law including CP Articles 595, 596 and 596-bis.

Art. 595.
Diffamazione.

Chiunque, fuori dei casi indicati nell'articolo precedente, comunicando con più persone, offende l'altrui reputazione, è punito con la reclusione fino a un anno o con la multa fino a euro 1.032.

Se l'offesa consiste nell'attribuzione di un fatto determinato, la pena è della reclusione fino a due anni, ovvero della multa fino a euro 2.065.

Se l'offesa è recata col mezzo della stampa o con qualsiasi altro mezzo di pubblicità, ovvero in atto pubblico, la pena è della reclusione da sei mesi a tre anni o della multa non inferiore a euro 516.

Se l'offesa è recata a un Corpo politico, amministrativo o giudiziario, o ad una sua rappresentanza o ad una autorità costituita in collegio, le pene sono aumentate.

Art. 596.
Esclusione della prova liberatoria.

Il colpevole dal delitto previsto dall'articolo precedente non è ammesso a provare, a sua discolpa, la verità o la notorietà del fatto attribuito alla persona offesa.

Tuttavia, quando l'offesa consiste nell'attribuzione di un fatto determinato, la persona offesa e l'offensore possono, d'accordo, prima che sia pronunciata sentenza irrevocabile, deferire ad un giurì d'onore il giudizio sulla verità del fatto medesimo.

Quando l'offesa consiste nell'attribuzione di un fatto determinato, la prova della verità del fatto medesimo è però sempre ammessa nel procedimento penale:

1) se la persona offesa è un pubblico ufficiale ed il fatto ad esso attribuito si riferisce all'esercizio delle sue funzioni;
2) se per il fatto attribuito alla persona offesa è tutt'ora aperto o si inizia contro di essa un procedimento penale;
3) se il querelante domanda formalmente che il giudizio si estenda ad accertare la verità o la falsità del fatto ad esso attribuito.

Se la verità del fatto è provata o se per esso la persona, a cui il fatto è attribuito, è [per esso] condannata dopo l'attribuzione del fatto medesimo, l'autore dell'imputazione non è punibile, salvo che i modi usati non rendano per se stessi applicabile la disposizione dell'articolo 595, primo comma.

Art. 596-bis.
Diffamazione col mezzo della stampa.

Se il delitto di diffamazione è commesso col mezzo della stampa le disposizioni dell'articolo precedente si applicano anche al direttore o vice-direttore responsabile, all'editore e allo stampatore, per i reati preveduti negli articoli 57, 57-bis e 58.

Google translation (with minor help from me):

Art. 595.
Defamation.

Anyone who, apart from the cases indicated in the previous article, by communicating with more people, offends the reputation of others, is punished with imprisonment of up to one year or a fine of up to € 1,032.

If the offense consists in the attribution of a specific fact, the penalty is imprisonment for up to two years, or a fine of up to € 2,065.

If the offense is carried out by the press or by any other means of advertising, or in a public document, the penalty is imprisonment from six months to three years or a fine of not less than 516 euros.

If the offense is directed to a political, administrative or judicial body, or to one of its representatives or to an authority constituted in a college [an official organization], the penalties are increased.

Art. 596.
Evidence of truthful attributions.

The person guilty of the crime envisaged in the previous article is not allowed to prove, in his defense, the truth or notoriety of the fact attributed to the offended person.

However, when the offense consists in the attribution of a specific fact, the offended person and the offender can, by agreement, before the irrevocable verdict is pronounced, refer the judgment on the truth of the fact to a jury of honor.

When the offense consists in the attribution of a specific fact, the proof of the truth of the fact is however always admitted in the criminal proceedings:

1) if the offended person is a public official and the fact attributed to him refers to the exercise of his functions;

2) if for the fact attributed to the injured person a criminal proceeding is still open or is initiated against him;

3) if the plaintiff formally requests that the judgment extend to ascertain the truth or falsity of the fact attributed to him.

If the truth of the fact is proven or if for him the person to whom the fact is attributed is condemned after the attribution of the fact itself, the author of the charge is not punishable, except that the methods used do not make the provision of article 595, first paragraph applicable for themselves.

Art. 596-bis.
Defamation by the press.

If the crime of defamation is committed by means of the press, the provisions of the preceding article also apply to the director or deputy director responsible, to the publisher and to the printer, for the offenses provided for in articles 57, 57-bis and 58.
 
IIRC the trial was delayed when the judge asked Mignini to supply Italian translations of the alleged offending statements from Honor Bound.

I lost interest in the progress of that trial, until all charges were dropped. IIRC the main offence Mignini claimed, was the allegation in Honor Bound that Mignini had offered Sollecito a deal if he would testify against Knox. Why that claim was deemed offensive is beyond me.

I think that's because plea deals like that are illegal in Italy. Not that I wouldn't put Mignini above 'suggesting' such a thing. Sort of like suggesting AK and RS were only witnesses informed of events instead of suspects so they didn't require lawyers. Or Donnino suggesting Knox had amnesia which is why she couldn't remember going to the cottage. Or the police suggesting Knox heard Kercher screaming or meeting Lumumba and taking him to the cottage.

In the US, that deal would be considered prosecutorial misconduct, and at a minimum the evidence given by the witness offered the deal would potentially be inadmissible.

However, in the US, I believe such deals are of course made but not admitted to by the participants.

I believe - but I am not sure - that a deal like that - inducing someone to testify (falsely) by a promise of a lower sentence or other inducement - would be against current Italian law. It may be covered under CP Articles 377 or 377-bis, which make it a crime to get someone to testify falsly by providing that person money or other benefits.
 
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This is the part of RS's book that supposedly had Mignini so upset:

The legal community in Perugia was full of holes and leaks, and my family learned all sorts of things about the opinions being bandied about behind the scenes, including discussions within the prosecutor’s office. The bottom line: Mignini, they were told, was not all that interested in me except as a gateway to Amanda. He might indeed be willing to acknowledge I was innocent, but only if I gave him something in exchange, either by incriminating Amanda directly or by no longer vouching for her.
 
In the US, that deal would be considered prosecutorial misconduct, and at a minimum the evidence given by the witness offered the deal would potentially be inadmissible.

However, in the US, I believe such deals are of course made but not admitted to by the participants.

Prosecutors make deals exchanging leniency for testimony frequently in the US. Testimony obtained under such deals is admissible - as long as the deal is disclosed to the defense - and do not constitute prosecutorial misconduct.

https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1479&context=clevstlrev
https://www.stetson.edu/law/lawrevi...ents-a-matter-of-constitutional-authority.pdf
https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3311&context=clr
 
A form of plea bargaining is allowed in Italy but only if the sentence would be less than 5 years:

Italy has a form of bargaining, popularly known as patteggiamento but that has a technical name of penalty application under request of the parts. In fact, the bargaining is not about the charges, but about the penalty applied in sentence, reduced up to[52] one third.

When the defendant deems that the punishment that would, concretely, be handed down is less than a five-year imprisonment (or that it would just be a fine), the defendant may request to plea bargain with the prosecutor. The defendant is rewarded with a reduction on the sentence and has other advantages (such as that the defendant does not pay the fees on the proceeding). The defendant must accept the penalty for the charges (even if the plea-bargained sentence has some particular matters in further compensation proceedings), no matter how serious the charges are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain#Italy
 
In the US, that deal would be considered prosecutorial misconduct, and at a minimum the evidence given by the witness offered the deal would potentially be inadmissible.

However, in the US, I believe such deals are of course made but not admitted to by the participants.

I believe - but I am not sure - that a deal like that - inducing someone to testify (falsely) by a promise of a lower sentence or other inducement - would be against current Italian law. It may be covered under CP Articles 377 or 377-bis, which make it a crime to get someone to testify falsly by providing that person money or other benefits.

Prosecutors make deals exchanging leniency for testimony frequently in the US. Testimony obtained under such deals is admissible - as long as the deal is disclosed to the defense - and do not constitute prosecutorial misconduct.

https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1479&context=clevstlrev
https://www.stetson.edu/law/lawrevi...ents-a-matter-of-constitutional-authority.pdf
https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3311&context=clr

whoanellie, you are entirely correct that plea deals that reduce an accomplice's sentence in exchange for cooperation in the case, including testimony against alleged co-conspirators, are indeed common and legal in the US, as long as such deals are acknowledged in court, and they are commonly so acknowledged. The accomplice's testimony is supposed to be truthful.

My statements on this topic for the US were confused.

What I meant was that plea deals where the alleged accomplice - or a jailhouse "snitch" - testifies falsely against an alleged co-conspirator - or an accused person confined in the jail with the "snitch" - by an inducement, such as a promise, not disclosed in court, of a reduced sentence, is potentially prosecutorial misconduct.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
 
This is the part of RS's book that supposedly had Mignini so upset:

The legal community in Perugia was full of holes and leaks, and my family learned all sorts of things about the opinions being bandied about behind the scenes, including discussions within the prosecutor’s office. The bottom line: Mignini, they were told, was not all that interested in me except as a gateway to Amanda. He might indeed be willing to acknowledge I was innocent, but only if I gave him something in exchange, either by incriminating Amanda directly or by no longer vouching for her.

So - given that both the lawsuit as well as the criminal charge against Gumbel & Sollecito were withdrawn........

Where does that leave Mignini in terms of exposure to a criminal charge against the offer that he made to Sollecito?
 
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