The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 30

[Stacyhs]

"Rather than letting the evidence pave the way to prove him as a suspect, they let the fact of him being a suspect pave the way to interpret the evidence."

Suspect centered investigation. Hmmm...sounds familiar somehow.

Oh, look... a footprint size 37: must be Amanda's! (Did you compare it to the other 3 girls who lived in the house? Um... no.)

 

[TomG]

"Rather than letting the evidence pave the way to prove him as a suspect, they let the fact of him being a suspect pave the way to interpret the evidence."

Suspect centered investigation. Hmmm...sounds familiar somehow.

Oh, look... a footprint size 37: must be Amanda's! (Did you compare it to the other 3 girls who lived in the house? Um... no.)

Did any of Amanda's existing footwear correspond to the size 37 shoeprint? Um...no.
Did the alleged footprint exist anywhere else at the crime scene our extend out from Meredith's bedroom? Um... no
Did the alleged bloody footprints extend from the hallway into Meredith's room? Um... no
Does any of this make any sense: Um.................TBA.

Hoots

 

[Stacyhs]

Did any of Amanda's existing footwear correspond to the size 37 shoeprint? Um...no.
Did the alleged footprint exist anywhere else at the crime scene our extend out from Meredith's bedroom? Um... no
Did the alleged bloody footprints extend from the hallway into Meredith's room? Um... no
Does any of this make any sense: Um.................TBA.

Hoots

There was no woman's size 37 shoe print. It was a partial print of Guede's as Vinci later proved.

It wasn't even a woman's shoe print I was referring to. It was the luminol footprint that had no DNA and was blood negative but that Massei designated as being Amanda's in Meredith's blood. Based on what? It could have belonged to Laura, Filomena or even Meredith. It wasn't even in blood as it was TMB negative.

 

[Vixen]

Welcome, Torsten.

Slick Pete is trying so hard to make himself relevant. He misses having, what was, a relative position of importance during the hay days of the Kercher trials. It's rather sad...or would be if he wasn't such nasty POS.

Bill, I read the article you linked. It's so sad. I do believe Raff will always be a victim of this injustice in Italy because most Italians will always think him guilty. This statement from the article is true:



As for Quennell's assertion about the 'apology', I think it's a bunch of BS.

On another note, I'm a bit worried about our Vixen. She hasn't posted on ISF in any thread since Sept. 7. Not like her.

I am well, thanks.

 

[Vixen]

Just wanted to share this with you:

His lawyers, Giulia Bongiorno and Luca Maori, had asked the Genoa court for 3.6 million euros for material and non-material damages.

The process played out in a Genoa court since, as Marco Preve explains well in an article in La Repubblica, the Ligurian capital has jurisdiction over judicial matters involving Florentine magistrates, and the Florence Court of Appeal was the one that convicted Sollecito and his ex-girlfriend Amanda Knox before the final acquittal.

Sollecito’s defense team had highlighted how the client had been found guilty and locked up in prison for “multiple misrepresentations of facts and evidence”.

Nonetheless, the court of Genoa sent the request back to the sender, arguing that ‘’ such reconstructions - although they may not be agreed with and be criticized - nevertheless demonstrate that the Florence Appeal sentenced them following a fair analysis and argued process..

The claims to the Genoa court had included this: that the psychological strains of the stormy judicial affair involving the 37-year-old are still being felt. Sollecito’s claims are attached to the documents of the Genoa court judgment.

“He will have to take drugs for the rest of his life for an anxious-depressive syndrome, difficulty concentrating, sleep disturbances, hypervigidity [this may mean hypervigilance], ease of crying, despair, low self-esteem, and extensive and extreme, behavioral isolation.”

Not to mention the costs of legal fees, E400 thousand already paid by mortgaging family properties, and the balance due to the legal team: E330,189.21 to the lawyer Bongiorno and E336,022.92 to the lawyer Maori.

In short, in addition to the damage also an insult. A very barbed joke.

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php

One has to wonder whether nobody thought to have a word in Sollecito's shell like that taking twelve establishment judges to court was not going to end well for him.

But then we always knew his judgement was poor:

• Not only did he indulge in LSD, cocaine and the occcult, he bragged about it on his FB page.
• Tried initially to blame everything on Knox, telling his father, 'I wish I had never met her'.
• Told police he had been 'talking a sack of ****' in his first police statement in which he claimed she had been with him all evening.
• Went on to claim Knox had asked him to lie for her.
• Then he changed his story and claimed in his book that he was gallantly covering up for Knox (hence, 'Honor Bound' ).
• Thought it would be a great idea to have child kidnapper/murderer, Alessi, and Mafia thug, Aviello, as his star witnesses.
• Went to the Austrian border as though to cross it whilst on bail and ordered to stay in Italy.
• Thought it a brilliant idea to schlep over to America and ask Knox to marry him, to avoid future extradition.
• Thought it would be fun during the appeal process to film Marilyn Manson burning a Bible, in Catholic Italy.
• Left his bloody footprint on the bathmat and his DNA on the murder victim's bra.
• Thought he'd claim €500,000 from the Italian Courts for wrongful time spent on remand and in jail.
• Started a closed Facebook page discussing how to murder people.
• Decided to sue twelve judges.
• Has no clue as to how his own behaviour might have brought about his own sorry consequences.

 

[Briars]

In the midst of the BLM movement someone should let the boy know that substituting any black face for another is not ok. His Instagram post with grinning mask mocking Lumumba and his shoes is who Sollecito still is.

 

[Bill Williams]

Just wanted to share this with you:



http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php

One has to wonder whether nobody thought to have a word in Sollecito's shell like that taking twelve establishment judges to court was not going to end well for him.

But then we always knew his judgement was poor:

• Not only did he indulge in LSD, cocaine and the occcult, he bragged about it on his FB page.
• Tried initially to blame everything on Knox, telling his father, 'I wish I had never met her'.
• Told police he had been 'talking a sack of ****' in his first police statement in which he claimed she had been with him all evening.
• Went on to claim Knox had asked him to lie for her.
• Then he changed his story and claimed in his book that he was gallantly covering up for Knox (hence, 'Honor Bound' ).
• Thought it would be a great idea to have child kidnapper/murderer, Alessi, and Mafia thug, Aviello, as his star witnesses.
• Went to the Austrian border as though to cross it whilst on bail and ordered to stay in Italy.
• Thought it a brilliant idea to schlep over to America and ask Knox to marry him, to avoid future extradition.
• Thought it would be fun during the appeal process to film Marilyn Manson burning a Bible, in Catholic Italy.
• Left his bloody footprint on the bathmat and his DNA on the murder victim's bra.
• Thought he'd claim €500,000 from the Italian Courts for wrongful time spent on remand and in jail.
• Started a closed Facebook page discussing how to murder people.
• Decided to sue twelve judges.
• Has no clue as to how his own behaviour might have brought about his own sorry consequences.

Wow. What a load of who-ee. Then I saw it was from TJMK.

Care to address any of your false factoids which are still pending? Or have you just hit reset, and we're going to be treated to another trip around the merry-go-round?

 

[Vixen]

In the midst of the BLM movement someone should let the boy know that substituting any black face for another is not ok. His Instagram post with grinning mask mocking Lumumba and his shoes is who Sollecito still is.

Not able to see it as I don't 'follow' him (small mercy) but it shows his complete lack of common decency. Perhaps he'll be suing Lumumba next to recoup some of the €1.2m he claims he owes in debts. The revenge of the abandoned son on his father!

On a note of schadenfreude: what a shame Bongiorno and Maori have never received a penny of their fees, so far.

Karma.

 

[Vixen]

Wow. What a load of who-ee. Then I saw it was from TJMK.

Care to address any of your false factoids which are still pending? Or have you just hit reset, and we're going to be treated to another trip around the merry-go-round?

No. John and Arline Kercher have gone, the siblings are grown up with families of their own. This is what happens when corruption enters the picture. The Kerchers were good, decent people having to fund their trips to the courts themselves. Integrity of character, goodness and kindness is something money cannot buy and something Knox and Sollecito will never have or be happy. Sollecito walks in darkness and knows not why he stumbles and falls. He is reliant on strong anti-depressants and has fits of crying. And he cannot understand why and where his life has gone wrong.

 

[Bill Williams]

No. John and Arline Kercher have gone, the siblings are grown up with families of their own. This is what happens when corruption enters the picture. The Kerchers were good, decent people having to fund their trips to the courts themselves. Integrity of character, goodness and kindness is something money cannot buy and something Knox and Sollecito will never have or be happy. Sollecito walks in darkness and knows not why he stumbles and falls. He is reliant on strong anti-depressants and has fits of crying. And he cannot understand why and where his life has gone wrong.

Huh!?

 

[Bill Williams]

No. John and Arline Kercher have gone, the siblings are grown up with families of their own. This is what happens when corruption enters the picture. The Kerchers were good, decent people having to fund their trips to the courts themselves. Integrity of character, goodness and kindness is something money cannot buy and something Knox and Sollecito will never have or be happy.

Is there a particular reason why you're not leaving the Kerchers alone, like Andrea Vogt (back in 2015) implored people to do?

Sollecito walks in darkness and knows not why he stumbles and falls. He is reliant on strong anti-depressants and has fits of crying. And he cannot understand why and where his life has gone wrong.

Can you give some detail as to how you know any of this? I mean, you've never met the guy, nor have you analyzed him in a controlled clinical setting.

I mean, Giuliano Mignini was once, quite publicly, called evil by someone who'd seen him in person. Does that make him evil?

 

[Vixen]

Is there a particular reason why you're not leaving the Kerchers alone, like Andrea Vogt (back in 2015) implored people to do?

Can you give some detail as to how you know any of this? I mean, you've never met the guy, nor have you analyzed him in a controlled clinical setting.

I mean, Giuliano Mignini was once, quite publicly, called evil by someone who'd seen him in person. Does that make him evil?

The difference between Mignini and Sollecito is that Mignini is merely performing the job he is paid to do as the state prosecutor. If you do not want to cross the path of an evil prosecutor, cop or prison warden, don't do the crime!

Meredith Kercher had no choice in Knox, Guede and Sollecito crossing her path.

That is the difference.

 

[Bill Williams]

Is there a particular reason why you're not leaving the Kerchers alone, like Andrea Vogt (back in 2015) implored people to do?
Can you give some detail as to how you know any of this? I mean, you've never met the guy, nor have you analyzed him in a controlled clinical setting.

I mean, Giuliano Mignini was once, quite publicly, called evil by someone who'd seen him in person. Does that make him evil?

The difference between Mignini and Sollecito is that Mignini is merely performing the job he is paid to do as the state prosecutor. If you do not want to cross the path of an evil prosecutor, cop or prison warden, don't do the crime!

Meredith Kercher had no choice in Knox, Guede and Sollecito crossing her path.

That is the difference.

This response makes no sense. Please note, the question I asked is highlighted above....

Is there a particular reason why you're not leaving the Kerchers alone, like Andrea Vogt (back in 2015) implored people to do?​

All of us here in this thread, in the year 2020, also have a choice. If some here don't want to cross the path of people who they regard, also, as evil - stop posting about them!

But again - why continue the upset that the Kerchers must feel, every time someone tries to open up this closed case, to go on and on about how evil they think someone else is? It is Andrea Vogt, no less, who criticized even well-meaning guilters for continuing after the March 2015 decision to exonerate AK and RS. Those aren't my words, they are AV's words, someone who also probably believes AK and RS got away with something, but decided to withdraw for the sake of the Kerchers.

Again, can you give some detail as to how you know any of this? I mean, you've never met Raffaele Sollecito, nor have you analyzed him in a controlled clinical setting. And yet you are confident that:

Sollecito walks in darkness and knows not why he stumbles and falls. He is reliant on strong anti-depressants and has fits of crying. And he cannot understand why and where his life has gone wrong.​

How do you know this?

 

[Stacyhs]

I'm not going to bother with Vixen's long list above. As Bill says, we've been gone been around that carousel many a time. But I do love this bit from Slick Pete:

While the Giornale reporter Rosa Scognamiglio has done quite a good job, she is wrong to imply that Guede acted alone; that was not the final ruling of the Supreme Court.

Petey is implying it was the Marasca SC that ruled that. In reality, it was established in 2009 by the SC that confirmed Guede's conviction that he didn't act alone. But here we have a conundrum for the Marasca court; a previous SC judicial 'set in stone' truth vs an "insurmountable roadblock" of the complete "absence, in the room of the homicide or on the victim’s body, of biological traces attributable with certainty to the two defendants, when, in contrast, there copious traces have been detected firmly referable to Guede." So what to do? They dealt with it the only way the could without upsetting the Italian judicial system: acquitting AK and RS but without confronting the previous SC ruling.

ETA: For years I asked for an example of a SC ruling that overruled a previous SC ruling. I've never been given one. Please don't present the "tight jeans" as an example because, the later one did not overrule the previous case. They covered two different cases.

 

[Stacyhs]

No. John and Arline Kercher have gone, the siblings are grown up with families of their own. This is what happens when corruption enters the picture. The Kerchers were good, decent people having to fund their trips to the courts themselves. Integrity of character, goodness and kindness is something money cannot buy and something Knox and Sollecito will never have or be happy. Sollecito walks in darkness and knows not why he stumbles and falls. He is reliant on strong anti-depressants and has fits of crying. And he cannot understand why and where his life has gone wrong.

We know John K has died. But no evidence of Arline having died has ever been presented. The only 'evidence' is the say-so of Raper. The employee of the cemetery where Meredith is buried, and where Raper claims Arline is buried, says there is no record of Arline being buried there. There are no media reports of her death. No tweets from family or friends. No announcements. Zero. Just Raper's claim. Sooo......do you have any evidence or are you just repeating his unsubstantiated claim?

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm not going to bother with Vixen's long list above. As Bill says, we've been gone been around that carousel many a time. But I do love this bit from Slick Pete:

While the Giornale reporter Rosa Scognamiglio has done quite a good job, she is wrong to imply that Guede acted alone; that was not the final ruling of the Supreme Court.

Petey is implying it was the Marasca SC that ruled that. In reality, it was established in 2009 by the SC that confirmed Guede's conviction that he didn't act alone. But here we have a conundrum for the Marasca court; a previous SC judicial 'set in stone' truth vs an "insurmountable roadblock" of the complete "absence, in the room of the homicide or on the victim’s body, of biological traces attributable with certainty to the two defendants, when, in contrast, there copious traces have been detected firmly referable to Guede." So what to do? They dealt with it the only way the could without upsetting the Italian judicial system: acquitting AK and RS but without confronting the previous SC ruling.

ETA: For years I asked for an example of a SC ruling that negated a previous SC ruling within the same case such as this one. I've never been given one.

Ah, yes, the dreaded "judicial truth". Pete on TJMK always does this, it's almost like he doesn't really care about the timeline associated with certain factoids. Like the "multiple attacker" factoid.

Strictly speaking, the final ISC acquittal did not specifically "rule" that this was so. It simply accepted that a past-ISC ruling had found that. In fact, the 2015 Marasca-Bruno court came to exactly the same conclusion that the 2011 Hellmann appeals' court came to.... the only point of interest in that factoid.....

..... were either AK or RS one or both of those multiples! Hellmann said no, as did the Marasca-Bruno court in 2015, and it was not up to them to find out who those other theorized people were.

Please note, though. When Luca Cheli wrote his analysis of the Marasca-Bruno report, he did concede that there was one other "judicial truth" that the MB court probably did regard as true-true, rather than just judicially true. From memory, I think Cheli's opinion was that this was the calunnia conviction Knox received for accusing Lumumba.

Then again, the Council of Europe (ECHR) later found that that conviction had been unsafe and unfairly arrived at. It directed Italy to remedy the conviction and to provide compensation to Knox.

My wish for people like Quennell and those who read TJMK is that they actually DO delve into the minutiae of things, like timelines for factoids, rather than say (wrongly) that the MB report ruled on something they never really ruled on.

 

[Vixen]

This response makes no sense. Please note, the question I asked is highlighted above....

Is there a particular reason why you're not leaving the Kerchers alone, like Andrea Vogt (back in 2015) implored people to do?​

All of us here in this thread, in the year 2020, also have a choice. If some here don't want to cross the path of people who they regard, also, as evil - stop posting about them!

But again - why continue the upset that the Kerchers must feel, every time someone tries to open up this closed case, to go on and on about how evil they think someone else is? It is Andrea Vogt, no less, who criticized even well-meaning guilters for continuing after the March 2015 decision to exonerate AK and RS. Those aren't my words, they are AV's words, someone who also probably believes AK and RS got away with something, but decided to withdraw for the sake of the Kerchers.

Again, can you give some detail as to how you know any of this? I mean, you've never met Raffaele Sollecito, nor have you analyzed him in a controlled clinical setting. And yet you are confident that:

Sollecito walks in darkness and knows not why he stumbles and falls. He is reliant on strong anti-depressants and has fits of crying. And he cannot understand why and where his life has gone wrong.​

How do you know this?

He says so in his own submissions to the court.

The claims to the Genoa court had included this: that the psychological strains of the stormy judicial affair involving the 37-year-old are still being felt. Sollecito’s claims are attached to the documents of the Genoa court judgment.

“He will have to take drugs for the rest of his life for an anxious-depressive syndrome, difficulty concentrating, sleep disturbances, hypervigidity [this may mean hypervigilance], ease of crying, despair, low self-esteem, and extensive and extreme, behavioral isolation.”

I don't know about you but there is a direct correlation between being sent to jail and stabbing someone in the neck with your collection of fetish knives, tearing off your victim's bra and leaving a substantial amount of your DNA on the twisted out of shape bra-hook, leaving your footprint in your victim's blood on the bathmat and telling police numerous lies and providing false alibis. Maybe one day the penny will drop with Sollecito and he will seek help for his personality disorder that gives him a need to shock and outrage people.

As for your question, it is not the done thing to answer a rhetorical question.

Lastly, you were the one who introduced the concept of 'evil' so may I suggest you start a thread on this fascinating topic in the Philosophy / Religion section?

 

[Vixen]

We know John K has died. But no evidence of Arline having died has ever been presented. The only 'evidence' is the say-so of Raper. The employee of the cemetery where Meredith is buried, and where Raper claims Arline is buried, says there is no record of Arline being buried there. There are no media reports of her death. No tweets from family or friends. No announcements. Zero. Just Raper's claim. Sooo......do you have any evidence or are you just repeating his unsubstantiated claim?

James Raper - his real name - is or was a defence lawyer. He is an entirely trustworthy source. He knew the family and often dropped by messages for them in person. James Raper said Arline is buried next to Meredith, so if the clerk at the gate cannot find Arline on her list of graves, ask them simply look up Meredith instead. It is possible, having divorced Arline reverted to a maiden name. Who knows? Or perhaps she used her middle name. It is a common practice.

 

[Stacyhs]

James Raper - his real name - is or was a defence lawyer. He is an entirely trustworthy source. He knew the family and often dropped by messages for them in person. James Raper said Arline is buried next to Meredith, so if the clerk at the gate cannot find Arline on her list of graves, ask them simply look up Meredith instead. It is possible, having divorced Arline reverted to a maiden name. Who knows? Or perhaps she used her middle name. It is a common practice.

The clerk at the gate? Oh, come now. The person looked it up in the cemetery computer burial records. Arline is not listed there. Why would she be buried under her maiden name? She had never reverted to her maiden name after her divorce and continued to be known as Arline Kercher. And why would she look it up under Meredith? If Arline Kercher had died, it would have been reported somewhere in the media. It wasn't.
So, just as I thought, you are simply repeating an unsubstantiated claim by one person.

 

[Stacyhs]

He says so in his own submissions to the court.



I don't know about you but there is a direct correlation between being sent to jail and stabbing someone in the neck with your collection of fetish knives, tearing off your victim's bra and leaving a substantial amount of your DNA on the twisted out of shape bra-hook, leaving your footprint in your victim's blood on the bathmat and telling police numerous lies and providing false alibis. Maybe one day the penny will drop with Sollecito and he will seek help for his personality disorder that gives him a need to shock and outrage people.

As for your question, it is not the done thing to answer a rhetorical question.

Lastly, you were the one who introduced the concept of 'evil' so may I suggest you start a thread on this fascinating topic in the Philosophy / Religion section?

There could well be a correlation. So, if you could connect RS with stabbing someone in the neck with your collection of fetish knives, tearing off your victim's bra and leaving a substantial amount of your DNA on the twisted out of shape bra-hook, leaving your footprint in your victim's blood on the bathmat then you might have a point. But until the.....