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The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

JayUtah said:
Thanks, I stand corrected. And upon correction, I realize I may have been thinking of James Fetzer or someone like that. I debated Björkmann on the old Apollo Hoax forum.
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I remember that. He offered a million euros for somebody to run the rocket equation. (He didn't put it that way, but that's what a lot of his "challenge" boiled down to.)
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Why is that your standard? There are categories of obesity. If the "Russian giant" Voronin were actually only of average height he would have a BMI around 35, putting him at the top end of Stage 1 (of 3) of obesity.

Also, why does any of this matter in the slightest?
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Because Vixen's conceit needs Voronin's survival to be suspicious somehow. The question needs to be something like: "How could a morbidly obese man with a wooden leg possibly have escaped the sinking ship without help from Swedish SEALs?"

The alternative: "How could a burly, somewhat heavyset man in his thirties with no known mobility issues possibly have escaped...[etc]" just doesn't have the same zing.
 
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... on overweight prop forwards and other members of the lardy pack - I played fly half at school...

When I was I life assurance underwriter, we started considering extra mortality and charging more when the fat forward assurance appilcant had a BMI of >25
 
The Common Potato said:
... on overweight prop forwards and other members of the lardy pack - I played fly half at school...

When I was I life assurance underwriter, we started considering extra mortality and charging more when the fat forward assurance appilcant had a BMI of >25
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Would that include considering the risk that they would be immobile in the circumstances of a ship sinking?
 
catsmate said:
Bollocks. Mayday Estonia provides no evidence either.
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Vixen would not know that as;
a. She does not possess the book
2. It is written in Estonian, which she does not speak*
iii. It is hardly an unbiased source anyway

*Addendum (see I can use flash words to appear educated too)
It may take vixen some time to photograph each of the 239 pages of the book and translate them via Google Lens/Translate on her phone. Like, maybe, never?
 
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EHocking said:
Vixen would not know that as;
a. She does not possess the book
2. It is written in Estonian, which she does not speak*
iii. It is hardly an unbiased source anyway

*Addendum (see I can use flash words to appear educated too)
It may take vixen some time to photograph each of the 239 pages of the book and translate them via Google Lens/Translate on her phone. Like, maybe, never?
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How quaint. Those of us with better tech and access simply have our AI agent translate the book......
 
JayUtah said:
To be clear, Michel had already admitted he suffered from untreated schizophrenia. This is important because the forum rightly forbids discussion of members being mentally ill unless the member has disclosed it themselves. Thus it is improper to suggest that @Vixen's apparently uncomfortable relationship with facts and the means of substantiating them might be the result of disordered thinking (except insofar as she has admitted to memory lapses).
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I am of perfectly sound mind, thanks for your concern. But how quaint thinking mental illness is an occasion for derision, abuse and insults. I would have hoped you were better than that.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Which is incredibly frustrating but it suits Vixens probable purpose of attention seeking. I can think of only one other reason for anyone to state that not accepting the physics claims of a man who thinks atomic bombs are precluded by the laws of physics, but I'm not willing to diagnose someone at all let alone over the internet.
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Oh for heavens sake, this is a current affairs news item, which is followed with great in these parts. Andi Meister's recent death was a news item here. In addition, Harry Ruotsalainen's theory about trucks had a double page spread in my local paper. Linus Andersson has also featured, as he lives around here. This newspaper is roughly the equivalent standard of the GUARDIAN.
 
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Vixen said:
I am of perfectly sound mind, thanks for your concern. But how quaint thinking mental illness is an occasion for derision, abuse and insults. I would have hoped you were better than that.
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If you think you have been derided, abused or insulted, you know you can report any post which does so.
 
Vixen said:
Oh for heavens sake, this is a current affairs news item, which is followed with great in these parts. Andi Meister's recent death was a news item here.
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Axxman300 said:
While researching my reply I found the source for much of the CT here:

estoniaferrydisaster.net

estoniaferrydisaster.net

It'z zee German Group of Expertz...

Here's the page discussing the smuggling, and what was smuggled, etc... :

estoniaferrydisaster.net

estoniaferrydisaster.net

Nothing about trucks on the night of the sinking.
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Those were two independent eye witness accounts who claim to have seen them: Ovberg and Sara Hedrenius.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I can't now remember what the source of the military trucks story was, but we've heard such a wide range of iterations of the tale that you might well think there must be half a dozen sources making different claims. Sometimes they were military vehicles and sometimes civilian ones but with military escorts. One time the escorts were in US marine uniforms, other times just in military uniform. Sometimes it was speculated the bow door was opened to allow the trucks to be pushed into the sea, but that went kinda quiet after it emerged the Estonia offloaded and loaded at the stern at Tallinn and at the bow in Stockholm, so the trucks would have been right at the back.
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According to Andi Meister the story about the cobalt was shut down very quickly by the JAIC. The claim was, Eiseln, an American who used his Estonian ethnicity to take high office in Estonia, had a direct phone line - radio, satellite or otherwise - who supposedly rang up the bridge to order them to dump it as Swedish Customs had been tipped off. Hence the opening of the car ramp. The alternative version was a lucrative cargo of drugs which the gangsters didn't want Customs to get hold of, owing to its street value. Who knows, but Silver Linde did get nine years for drug smuggling some years later. The bow ramp could just as easily been opened by a person or persons, as a 'strong wind' knocking off the entire structure.
 
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Vixen said:
Those were two independent eye witness accounts who claim to have seen them: Ovberg and Sara Hedrenius.
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The last time you brought this up, it turned out that you did not have any evidence that Ovberg ever saw trucks getting loaded onto the ship; the document you provided only has him saying he was held up getting to the ship by some sort of military convoy, which is not the same thing. When I asked you about it, you said you would have to get back to me. You never did.

I take it that, since you are mentioning Ovberg again, you have managed in the meantime to find actual evidence that he witnessed trucks getting loaded onto the ship? May I see that evidence, please?
 
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The Common Potato said:
... on overweight prop forwards and other members of the lardy pack - I played fly half at school...

When I was I life assurance underwriter, we started considering extra mortality and charging more when the fat forward assurance appilcant had a BMI of >25
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AIUI those actuary tables were devised in the 1940's when everybody was more svelte and lithe owing to eating proper two veg and meat meals and not more than three times a day. No stuffing their faces in front of the tv. Kids used to walk to school and go cross country running. So I think if your BMI says you are about 7lbs overweight, you probably look slimmer than most people you meet. Voronin being >17st overweight at age 37, strikes me as definitely in the health-risk range assuming he was average height.
 
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EHocking said:
Vixen would not know that as;
a. She does not possess the book
2. It is written in Estonian, which she does not speak*
iii. It is hardly an unbiased source anyway

*Addendum (see I can use flash words to appear educated too)
It may take vixen some time to photograph each of the 239 pages of the book and translate them via Google Lens/Translate on her phone. Like, maybe, never?
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meister front by Username Vixen, on Flickr

meister back by Username Vixen, on Flickr
 
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