The Roe Countdown

[Olmstead]

How the **** am I supposed to quantify that?

"I have facts and figures that show men and women don't have radically different views on abortion."

"Okay but I'm still sure women don't mean it as much. Prove me wrong."

Here's a couple of ways:

What's the gender divide among pro-life and pro-choice politicians?

What's the gender divide among pro-life and pro-choice activists?

Not saying there is data on that, mind you, but I'd be happy if someone can find it.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But less flippantly the point was simply that even IF women were the only ones allowed to make decisions about abortion, then abortion would be accepted... almost to the exact same level because women are roughly about as anti-abortion as men are.

In any number of other threads, a 6 point difference would be deemed material.

That said... let's step back and toss some reality into the mix. Did the Texas bill go to the general populace for a vote? Or was it decided upon by politicians? Did females have equal representation among those politicians?

There are ideological and belief-based divides on any number of political issues. What is relevant here is that this decision affects only females. And if the decision were left to females alone, this bill would never have passed. This is a decision that has been made by males about females.

I really don't need you (or anyone) belaboring the point that 38% of females are against abortion, predominantly for religious reasons. I'm well aware of that fact. It's not like it's a mystery. In fact, while I disagree, I can both understand and respect the point of view espoused by those females who are pro-life.

The fact that a bit over a third of females are pro-life is completely irrelevant to the fact that these laws are being put in place by males.

 

[angrysoba]

Ladies you have to face facts.

Good luck with that, Joe!

Women speaking purely as a demographic are only a little more supportive of abortion than men are. We're talking about a difference of around 6% or so, barely outside the margins of error of most polling.

Demographically speaking your fellow women are not that much more on your side than men are. If you're in a room with 10 women, assuming a fair random distribution, 4 of them are going to be anti-abortion.

Okay, but this is weird. On the one hand you are framing this as not a gender issue, but then you also assume that the woman's side on abortion is to be pro-choice.

Does it make sense to say "Listen up ladies! Ladies are not on your side, ladies!"?

 

[angrysoba]

FML

Wake up and smell the coffee! The GOP are the drivers of anti-abortion laws.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Wake up and smell the coffee! The GOP are the drivers of anti-abortion laws.

Do you think I'm unaware of that somehow? That might be the strangest response I've had in a while.

 

[xjx388]

I don't share your view on that.

Speaking as someone who has voted for a lot of Republicans in his lifetime, I don’t see how you can have any other view. This is 100% a Republican goal and it’s because they aligned themselves with the Christian Conservatives.

I’m just hoping (praying, even, lol) that this is the last gasp of the Christian Right. They’ve taken a lot of hits lately. My hope is that women and more level-headed Texans in general wake up and help oust Abbot and his compatriots. I know I will be right there with my wife and kids casting our votes. We can’t let this move towards a theocracy stand.

 

[angrysoba]

I never thought I'd be watching my rights get stripped away on a daily basis. I'm just so angry at all of the politicians right now.

Though it is the Republicans who deserve the vast majority of your ire.

I don't share your view on that.

Republicans in six states rush to mimic Texas anti-abortion law

FML

Wake up and smell the coffee! The GOP are the drivers of anti-abortion laws.

Do you think I'm unaware of that somehow? That might be the strangest response I've had in a while.

Do you see why I said the Republicans deserve the majority of your ire. These are the ones stripping away your rights. Not the Democrats.

 

[The Atheist]

Irony across the border - Mexico decriminalises abortion.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/07/1034925270/mexico-abortion-decriminalized-supreme-court

 

[TurkeysGhost]

And if the decision were left to females alone, this bill would never have passed. This is a decision that has been made by males about females.

You have any evidence that this is true in Texas?

Who elected those male politicians?

If you have any evidence that the women who routinely elect patriarchal men who explicitly promise to curtail their reproductive rights are upset about this development, share it.

Anti-abortion has been a main plank of conservative, evangelical politics for a very long time. There has been nothing subtle about it. Frankly, it's infantilizing for you to treat the many, many women who support these politicians and policies as clueless victims. This is what many conservative women wanted, and in Texas (and other GOP states), they're finally getting it.

A poll from March 2021 of Texans:

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/02/texas-gambling-abortion-marijuana-confederate/

Both a majority of men and women either want abortion access to be the same or less strict. 35% of men vs 30% of women want it restricted, a similar gap as seen in many national polls, and not even close to a majority for either. A majority of self-identified conservatives want it restricted, an overwhelming majority of self-identified liberals want it less strict.

There is a story here of an extremist minority foisting their will onto the larger majority, but those lines aren't drawn along gender, it's ideology.


Another fun fact, women routinely have slightly higher voter turnout rates than men.

 

[Random]

But the vote he is blaming on RBG went 5-4, not 6-3, with all of Trump's appointees being amongst the 5.

Nah, Roberts would have flipped to keep it 5-4 against review. Roberts is a reactionary right wing nutjob like the rest, he simply pretends to be moderate to forestall a left-wing counter-reaction like packing the court. He votes liberal on things like DACA, things that are temporary or ephemeral, while voting conservative on things like the VRA which will have knock on effects for decades.

Going to a 6-3 conservative court just lets him pretend to be moderate and vote liberal more often, while still allowing a 5-4 conservative victory.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Nah, Roberts would have flipped to keep it 5-4 against review. Roberts is a reactionary right wing nutjob like the rest, he simply pretends to be moderate to forestall a left-wing counter-reaction like packing the court. He votes liberal on things like DACA, things that are temporary or ephemeral, while voting conservative on things like the VRA which will have knock on effects for decades.

Going to a 6-3 conservative court just lets him pretend to be moderate and vote liberal more often, while still allowing a 5-4 conservative victory.

Well said.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Speaking as someone who has voted for a lot of Republicans in his lifetime, I don’t see how you can have any other view.

Let me clarify: Republicans are stripping away the rights of females to have abortions. They deserve my ire for that, and rightly so in my view. Democrats, on the other hand, are stripping away my right to name my own sex class, and to speak my mind with respect to the impact of their policies on my sex class, and they are endangering females in prison, reducing the ability of females to participate in sports, politics, business, the economy, and society as a whole.

As far as I'm concerned, as a female of the human species, both Republicans and Democrats are doing their level best to disenfranchise me and all other female citizens. Thus, I don't think that Republicans deserve the "vast majority" of my ire.

 

[lobosrul5]

Let me clarify: Republicans are stripping away the rights of females to have abortions. They deserve my ire for that, and rightly so in my view. Democrats, on the other hand, are stripping away my right to name my own sex class, and to speak my mind with respect to the impact of their policies on my sex class, and they are endangering females in prison, reducing the ability of females to participate in sports, politics, business, the economy, and society as a whole.

As far as I'm concerned, as a female of the human species, both Republicans and Democrats are doing their level best to disenfranchise me and all other female citizens. Thus, I don't think that Republicans deserve the "vast majority" of my ire.

Besides sports, what in the FSM are you going on about here.

 

[dudalb]

Speaking as someone who has voted for a lot of Republicans in his lifetime, I don’t see how you can have any other view. This is 100% a Republican goal and it’s because they aligned themselves with the Christian Conservatives.

I’m just hoping (praying, even, lol) that this is the last gasp of the Christian Right. They’ve taken a lot of hits lately. My hope is that women and more level-headed Texans in general wake up and help oust Abbot and his compatriots. I know I will be right there with my wife and kids casting our votes. We can’t let this move towards a theocracy stand.

GOvernor Abbott just anounced he solve the issue about no exception even for rape by eliminating rape in Texas. God, what an idiot.

 

[dudalb]

Speaking as someone who has voted for a lot of Republicans in his lifetime, I don’t see how you can have any other view. This is 100% a Republican goal and it’s because they aligned themselves with the Christian Conservatives.

I’m just hoping (praying, even, lol) that this is the last gasp of the Christian Right. They’ve taken a lot of hits lately. My hope is that women and more level-headed Texans in general wake up and help oust Abbot and his compatriots. I know I will be right there with my wife and kids casting our votes. We can’t let this move towards a theocracy stand.

Sadly, Abbot has so fixed the Texas Voting system so that the majority does not count. It;s permanent minority rule.

 

[casebro]

Today's news feed is that Biden's Justice Dept is suing Texas for a blatantly unconstitutional law.

 

[angrysoba]

Misread. Sorry. Disregard.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Besides sports, what in the FSM are you going on about here.

Somewhere out there some desperate trans woman is getting help at a women's domestic violence/homeless shelter and it's an outrage.

 

[Suddenly]

Somewhere out there some desperate trans woman is getting help at a women's domestic violence/homeless shelter and it's an outrage.

Well, you know, that leads to inequities in middle school sports.

 

[Fidelio]

Irony across the border - Mexico decriminalises abortion.

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/07/1034925270/mexico-abortion-decriminalized-supreme-court

Back in the day the county I lived in was dry (no alcohol sales no way no how). Just across the county line was an entire galaxy of liquor stores in the wet county.

One hopes the Mexicans will at least limit the neon signage.