The Lanford Experiments

[cbish]

Nolan wrote:

I am trying to obtain more information for purposes of this discussion. I would like to be able to present a list of potential objections to the membership

OK I'll bite

Lanford had insisted upon a quiet venue; we consulted our guides and an address was revealed to us.

Who are the guides? Why do you need "guides"?

Needless to say our little committee quickly made arrangements to see the house with Lanford in tow. Lanford was quite happy with the house and the matter was settled

Had Lanford been to the house before? How do you know?

We rented the house for a period of six weeks. The first two weeks were spent attuning the house and generally cleansing it of any negative energies. Although it was a relatively new home people had been living in it and precautions needed to be taken in order to provide a neutral environment for the experiments.

How do you know it had negative energy? What kind of negative energy? How did you remove negative energy? How can you tell when the negative energy is removed? How much negative energy is tolerable for a good test?

We were guided to focus on the dining room as the proper setting for testing. All plants and floor lamps were removed as well as extra furniture, leaving only the dining room table and chairs.

Why? What about the reflections from the dining room windows?
What time of day was this performed? What kind of lighting?

I have to go. I'll get back

 

[AOK Tiger]

I think I have worked out the problem.

Nolan and his bunch of looney woo woos are really worried about this guy as he demonstrates a “real” ability and they know all of their own “abilities” are just a pile of doody.

The funny thing is the guy is just sucking the woos in with his own brand of magic.

Either that or Nolan is just a complete fraud trying to stir the ◊◊◊◊ pot in here.

He shows up with a RIDICULOUS story with NO supporting eveidence with a RIDICULOUS bunch of characters with an IMPOSSIBLE ability trying to join a STUPID secret society who also have NON EXISTENT abilities.. cmon ….

Nolan

Cough up more info, answer some questions or bugger off !

 

[cbish]

Given the nature of these abilities we always take careful precautions to prevent psychic access

Why? What would psychic access do? What level of psychic access is tolerable? How would you know if it had been breeched?

Each stage of the preparation was photographed in order to preserve a record of the procedure which we could check for any sleight of hand. We are all trustworthy but having a truly impartial watchful eye in the form of technology helps to keep everyone careful of details.

By whom?

Ten envelopes were selected at random.

By whom? Wouldn't an independent third party be best? If not, why not?

I'll be the third party. I'll video tape. I'll select the items to be viewed. I'll select the envelopes randomly however I don't want to know what's in them, specifically.


You mentioned you drew the blinds. What kind of blinds? What kind of table were these items on? Over the next few days, were any new items added to the list or were any items taken out of the potential pool?

Can we have other observers other than your society? Say Randi, Ashles, Ed, Paul A, Kitty or anyone here on this board.


I really would like a response.

 

[Nolan Coppenger]

To answer questions as well as I can:

I was not involved in the experiments. I've posted the account as I received it. I understand that the article is lacking in detail and I am trying to obtain more information about the procedures for purposes of this discussion but have not yet received any. I am keeping a list of the various points that have been made here. I too would like to know what went on in more detail or if anything ever took place.

I do not wish to discuss myself. I am only interested in dealing with this Lanford business.

 

[Kitty Chan]

Then I will repeat my last questions if you do not wish to discuss you.

And lastly ask the question What purpose is served by a secret group who have special abilities?

If the abilities are real then whats the groups concern about sharing them?

If I was there I would ask myself WHY do I care?

 

[Zombified]

Let me guess how this is going to go.

1. We get some vague information. No opportunity to clarify, test, get questions answered, etc.

2. Nobody comes up with an explanation because there's insufficient information.

3. Thread dies from lack of interest.

4. Incident used by woos to prove "Lanford could not be explained by skeptics."

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I think Zombi has it. It's called "proof by insufficient information to have an actual conversation."

~~ Paul

 

[Nolan Coppenger]

The association exists for purposes of collegial support. We don't go around making ostentatious display of what we do, until this Lanford business took place. We aren't supposed to look for publicity or notoriety. Some of us think we are being lied to about this and we recognize that intuition is only able to help to a certain degree.

I do not expect anyone to "care". I am asking for an analysis. When I receive more information I will post it.

 

[steenkh]

Some of us think we are being lied to about this and we recognize that intuition is only able to help to a certain degree.

You are probably right. It looks like some of you have a skeptical attitude, but you also wrote

many people do not believe in the special abilities we all practice

So what is it? Both?! I certainly believe in the special abilities that I practice all the time, but it builds on education and inspiration, not psychic abilities.

 

[Ashles]

we recognize that intuition is only able to help to a certain degree.

Intuition is of no help whatsoever in these circumstances.

For these kind of effects you need tight experimental procedures and repeatability. Where does 'intuition' come into it?

If your experiments subsequrently pay people money or some form of support to your claimants you really need to get some more professional or analytical people involved as you sound like you could be being regularly fooled.
An illusionist would also be extremely valuable.

The experiment you have described is absolutely passable by trickery in several different ways.

 

[Stitch]

Against my better judgement but...

Our experiments were conducted in a wonderfully appointed new home in Pleasant Hill. Lanford had insisted upon a quiet venue;

Why??

we consulted our guides and an address was revealed to us.

Who were the guides? Who appointed them? Were they known to Lanford before hand? How do you know?

On investigating, we discovered that the address was a newer home which the owners had just put on the rental market. Needless to say our little committee quickly made arrangements to see the house with Lanford in tow. Lanford was quite happy with the house and the matter was settled.

This suggests the ability is location specific, why do you think this may be? Or is it a case that he needs to pre-vet the place to ensure that his "method" will work?

We rented the house for a period of six weeks.

Again - this seems an excessive period, but never mind

The first two weeks were spent attuning the house and generally cleansing it of any negative energies. Although it was a relatively new home people had been living in it and precautions needed to be taken in order to provide a neutral environment for the experiments.

How were the energies tested, before and after? Was everybody in agreement that there were negative energies? Who "cleaned" them out? Who was in attendance or observing while this occured?

We were guided to focus on the dining room as the proper setting for testing.

Who guided you to the dining room? Why do you think that was? Is there anything about the dining room that may facilitate this trick?

All plants and floor lamps were removed as well as extra furniture, leaving only the dining room table and chairs. As you can see, the result was somewhat Spartan, but that had been our goal.

Seems a lot of work to go to to create a spartan feel, why not just locate an empyt warehouse that was neer lived in. All of this stinks of set-up and trickery to me.

Experimental Preparation
At last we were ready to test Lanford. Keeping in mind that many people do not believe in the special abilities we all practice, we took steps to assure that our tests would be as thorough as possible giving Lanford no chance to cheat.

So far you have failed miserably - I have little confidence the damage has not already been done.

As you know, we test everyone who is invited to join our society and Lanford was no exception. Given the nature of these abilities we always take careful precautions to prevent psychic access or even physical access to test materials.

How were they physically protected? How were they psychically protected?

Keys to the house and the test materials were kept in a safe deposit box. Only two of us had access to the safe deposit box. Both were required to be present when the other opened the box. The bank had been instructed to refuse access to either person if the other person was not present.

Big deal - lock picking is no great secret. This was over complication without actually solving the root problem. Who remained at the building to guard it? Was there internal and external CCTV footage over night etc to ensure no tampering?

We set out the materials the night before Lanford was to arrive. These materials were:
The materials
Two new decks of playing cards.
10 opaque black envelopes.
10 rectangular plates of 1/4” thick steel.
Digital video recorder.
Digital camera.

Who said to set up the night before? If Lanford then I see a big hole in the protocol, if you suggested it then you have just providd him with a hole.

We set up the digital video recorder and the digital camera. Each stage of the preparation was photographed in order to preserve a record of the procedure which we could check for any sleight of hand. We are all trustworthy but having a truly impartial watchful eye in the form of technology helps to keep everyone careful of details.

Assuming you actually saw the slight of hand and took a photograph of it. Seeing as most experts in this field can do it under your nose, what makes you think you would atch it on film?

After closing the blinds

Why? At whose request? Were the blinds checked before they were closed and after for holes etc that somebody could see through from outside?

we thoroughly shuffled one deck of cards, leaving the other deck sealed and unopened. Each playing card was placed in one opaque black envelope. These envelopes were then shuffled. Ten envelopes were selected at random. Each envelope was placed in a row on the dining room table. Each envelope was then covered by one steel plate. At this time we turned off the digital video recorder, taking it and the digital camera with us when we left the room, which we locked behind us. The digital video recorder and the digital camera were taken to the bank and locked in the safe deposit box.

Why was the video not left running once the experiment was set up?? You must have the video running continuously, everything after this point is now invalid.

In the morning all of us were anxious for Lanford's arrival.

Why?? He probably already knows what the cards are.

Our lieutenants retrieved the digital video recorder and digital camera from the safe deposit box and we all met at the house. There we unlocked the dining room and found that nothing had been disturbed.

What measures were in place to ensure things were not disturbed or were you relyign on looking at a digital photo and comparing? What was to stop somebody breaking in over night, taking photos, looking what the cards were and then using the photos to put it all back. Why was there no CCTV or Guards (big hole), in fact, why was the setup and experiment not one continual process?

No sooner had we set up the digital video recorder and digital camera than Lanford knocked on the front door of the house. He apologized for his early arrival but said that he'd had “the jitters” and wanted to get started as soon as possible. Fortunately we were ready for him to begin. We all entered the dining room where the tests would soon begin.

Lanford was given the sealed, unopened deck of playing cards. His task was to discern the playing card hidden below each steel plate and select its duplicate from the unopened deck and place it face up above each plate.

Asmentioned - I suspect he already knows at this point, so the rest is just presentation of the pay-off.

Lanford selects the cards

One by one, Lanford examined each place without touching anything except the deck of cards in his hands. Slowly selecting each card in turn, Lanford stopped at each plate and placed a card at each position until all ten plates had a card.

Could he have done this blindfolded and called out the card details as he passed each one?? Just wondering!

In keeping with our agreements, Lanford then left with one of our committee, who drove him to another location while we examined the results.

The Results

Here are the incredible results of the first experiment:

Plate 1: Queen of Diamonds Lanford: Queen of Diamonds

Plate 2: Five of Clubs Lanford: Four of Clubs

Plate 3: Ace of Diamonds Lanford: Ace of Diamonds

Plate 4: Eight of Spades Lanford: Eight of Spades

Plate 5: Jack of Hearts Lanford: Jack of Hearts

Plate 6: Six of Hearts Lanford: Four of Hearts

Plate 7: Ten of Clubs Lanford: Ten of Clubs

Plate 8: Joker Lanford: Joker

Plate 9: Seven of Diamonds Lanford: Seven of Hearts

Plate 10: King of Spades Lanford: King of Spades

Who collated the results and how? Plenty of scope for things to be "fudged" at this point.

Seven clear hits out of ten, with three very close hits, close enough to be virtually identical. When asked how he was able to “see” the hidden cards, Lanford told us that when he concentrates, “the metal just turns to glass”. When we asked him how he could see through the opaque envelopes, Lanford said, “I didn't notice envelopes at all.” We asked Lanford why there had been three misses, even though the cards he had chosen were extremely similar to the originals. According to Lanford, “Sometimes there's interference. If I get negative energies the glass effects get cloudy, you know, as if someone breathed on it and fogged the glass.”

We repeated the experiment once each day for the remaining four weeks. As you can see in this graph, Lanford's hit rate remained consistently high throughout the test period, at times hitting 10 for 10.

This chart shows Lanford's scores

Judging by the gaping holes in the protocol I am not surprised he was able to pull this off repeatedly.

Summary

We feel the results of these tests are truly astounding.

Really?? I am unimpressed. The protocol was too complex, leaving it wide open to abuse, it may not have been properly double blinded and the result taking process may well be suspect. This could be done much more simply, with better anti-trickery measures, in a much shorter period of time and I suspect with rather different results.

 

[troy jones]

Re: Re: The Lanford Experiments

Who were the guides? Who appointed them? Were they known to Lanford before hand? How do you know?

I assume he means spirit guides of some sort.

 

[Stitch]

Re: Re: Re: The Lanford Experiments

I assume he means spirit guides of some sort.

Well there's the answer then, he can't see through steel sheets, he can however communicate with the dead and they were telling him the answers, so he cheated afterall

 

[sackett]

Goodbye, $1 million, we hardly knew ye

Master Lanford has that cool mil already in his pocket. A little paperwork, the trifling matter of agreeing on a protocol, a demonstration of his astounding! uncanny! incredible! ability to see through solid metal, and it's ALL HIS!

And better still: Randi and his henchmen will have to eat crow. Oh, the ignominy! Oh, the publicity!

Gee, I can hardly wait. Well, yes, actually I can.

 

[T'ai Chi]

And then Lanford can buy more clothes that have earth-tones.

 

[apoger]

After reading this thread over, all it looks like to me, is a cleaver prankster having a laugh at the expense of the local "woo woo club".

Lanford is probably at home right now, writing an essay on how he bamboozled a bunch of believers with a bit of stage mentalism.

 

[Zombified]

Re: Goodbye, $1 million, we hardly knew ye

Master Lanford has that cool mil already in his pocket. A little paperwork, the trifling matter of agreeing on a protocol, a demonstration of his astounding! uncanny! incredible! ability to see through solid metal, and it's ALL HIS!

Ah, but you can already see the excuses have taken root in the very first post... he doesn't want attention or publicity, he's too shy. He'll never take the challenge, and he'll be yet another psychic claiming he's already proven himself, and the skeptics can't disprove him.

This, of course, is merely a preliminary hypothesis based on available evidence. If Mr. Lanford or Mr. Coppenger would like to produce contrary evidence, they are more than welcome to.

 

[Ashles]

It sounds like Nolan's organisation is a bit like the Randi test, but with no strict experimental controls (although there are smaller prizes).

Where do I sign up!

I can levitate like David Blaine, pull my thumb in half, do some really neat match tricks, guess what you've written on a piece of paper... all kinds of cool stuff.

 

[Nolan Coppenger]

I sent an email to one of the group leaders asking many of the questions brought up here. I received this response today:

Nolan:

Why are you asking all these questions? Do you think I've been dishonest or something? Do you think we'd stoop so low and just CHEAT? Do you realize how much it all COST? Maybe you'd better meditate about this and stop thinking so much and FEEL what the truth is. If you don't like the way things are done in this group you can just leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay, in fact if you're going to be this negative maybe you just don't fit in. Maybe your path leads somewhere else. I'm beginning to think it does. I work very hard on bringing stronger energy into the group and I won't stand for these questions you're asking. What's wrong with you? I'm sensing a LOT of negative energy around you. I don't want that kind of energy in this group so if you can't deal with it I suggest you just leave. In fact I think it's best for all concerned if you DO leave.

Rachael

I believe I have my answer. Thank you to all concerned.

 

[canadarocks]

Red Flags anyone???

stop thinking so much

FEEL what the truth is

I won't stand for these questions you're asking