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Cont: The behaviour of US police officers - part 2

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Belz... said:
Well, I'm glad I live in Canada.
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The Saskatoon freezing deaths were a series of three confirmed deaths of Indigenous Canadians in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan in the early 2000s. Their deaths were caused by members of the Saskatoon Police Service who would arrest Indigenous people, usually men, for alleged drunkenness and/or disorderly behaviour, without cause at times.[1] The Saskatoon Police officers would then drive them to the outskirts of the city at night in the winter, take their clothing, and abandon them, leaving them stranded in sub-zero temperatures.[2]

The practice was known as taking Indigenous people for "starlight tours"[3] and dates back to 1976.[4] As of 2021, despite convictions for related offences, no Saskatoon police officer has been convicted specifically for having caused freezing deaths.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths
 
Belz... said:
It's policy to shoot suicidal people?

Well it sure cuts to the chase.
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There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?
 
pgwenthold said:
There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?
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:(
 
newyorkguy said:
My buddy said if an officer complained to Internal Affairs about a commander suggesting the officer issue false moving violation summons, it wouldn't go anywhere but the lieutenant would be informed of the accusation. The retaliation would come in things like assignments or time off requests. One issue he mentioned was an officer wanting to switch shifts with another officer. Or ask for emergency leave for a family emergency. Say the officer's father, who is retired and living in Arizona, has a heart attack. Not expected to make it.

Those requests have to be approved by the unit commander, in this case the patrol lieutenant. The lieutenant wouldn't turn them down but -- in typical organizational fashion -- he just wouldn't respond. Claim, "I never got it."
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It creeps me a good deal how likely none of us from the US, including myself, find this surprising or shocking. It's been that thoroughly normalized.
 
deadrose said:
Ask how Robert Pickton got away with his serial killings for so long? Being First Nations in Canada is dangerous, almost as dangerous as being Black in the US.
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Native in the US is worse than Black in the US for at least some victimhood of crimes.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Native in the US is worse than Black in the US for at least some victimhood of crimes.
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I'm a US native and wonder what you mean. Oh, I'm white!

I recently looked up why in the TV show "Longmire" that the term Native American was not uttered once (that I recall). They strictly used "Indian". Indian casino, Indian res, Indian buriel ground....

The author of the books said that his Indian friends teased him when he used that term, telling him, "Are you not native American as well?"

That's what he said anyways, while also elaborating that they have a strong sense of humor and irony.

Maybe he's full of it, could be, so here's a link:
https://www.geaugamapleleaf.com/new...s-how-tv-fame-affects-his-wyoming-ranch-life/

I disagree with your statement. Indians can just say they're Mexican and fake it ;) Kinda like how I say I'm Canadian when I go overseas. :) Humor.
 
deadrose said:
Ask how Robert Pickton got away with his serial killings for so long? Being First Nations in Canada is dangerous, almost as dangerous as being Black in the US.
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ponderingturtle beat me to it a bit, but... Native Americans in the US are at quite a bit of risk, as a general matter.

For example -

Native American women have the highest rates of violent crime victimization, more than double that of other racial groups.[68] In the violent acts committed against Native women, Native American women are more likely to have injuries that require medical attention than crimes committed against other races. They are also more likely to face an armed assailant than female victims of violent acts of other races.[69] On a number of Native American reservations Native Women are murdered at a rate representing ten times the national average. Violent crime rates over all on Native American reservations are 2.5 times the national average while some individual reservations reach 20 times the national average of violent crime.[69]
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On the police front -

Even when sexual assaults are reported to the authorities, prosecution is not certain. According to a study by Amnesty International in 2006, the local police often either do not respond to a sexual assault case or take hours or days to respond to the victims reports.[68] Additionally due to the overlapping jurisdiction of tribal, state, and federal authorities, enforcement of protection orders for victims remains largely unreliable. Tension between these three groups hinders responsiveness and efficiency in the prosecution of sexual offenders and the protection of the victims.[71]
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mgidm86 said:
The author of the books said that his Indian friends teased him when he used that term, telling him, "Are you not native American as well?"
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That strikes me as similar to "Why do you need a hot water heater? Hot water is already hot." Examining each word individually while ignoring the context and phrase as a whole to try to sound clever.
 
Armitage72 said:
That strikes me as similar to "Why do you need a hot water heater? Hot water is already hot." Examining each word individually while ignoring the context and phrase as a whole to try to sound clever.
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It would have been quicker to type "The primary character trait of 99% of this board."
 
pgwenthold said:
There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?
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True. Here's some articles documenting it:

Police Officer Wins Settlement From City That Fired Him for Not Shooting a Black Man
In that moment, Mader did not see a man with a gun. He saw a human being in crisis. Mader deduced that Williams was not what he might appear — a danger to others and to a responding officer alike. Mader saw that Williams was trying to commit “suicide by cop.”

Rather than shoot, Mader returned to his military training and attempted to de-escalate the situation. He softened his voice, looked Williams in the eye, and said, “I’m not going to shoot you, brother. I’m not going to shoot you.” With those words, Officer Mader connected to the humanity of Williams, a man in deep distress.

While Mader continued his attempt to convince Williams to drop his weapon, two other officers arrived on the scene. In a matter of seconds, one of the newly arrived officers fired four shots, killing Williams. It was at that point the officers discovered that Williams’ gun was unloaded. Stephen Mader was correct. R.J. Williams was not a threat, but it didn’t matter. He was dead.

Weeks later, the Weirton Police Department fired Stephen Mader.
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Much longer writeup here:

I DON’T WANT TO SHOOT YOU, BROTHER”
 
Not surprising he was fired - he thought his military training was appropriate in the war zone of urban USA!
 
crescent said:
True. Here's some articles documenting it:

Police Officer Wins Settlement From City That Fired Him for Not Shooting a Black Man


Much longer writeup here:

I DON’T WANT TO SHOOT YOU, BROTHER”
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I'm more about this part:

[The police chief] had concluded that the young officer had frozen in a life-and-death moment. He had determined that Mader, in not eliminating what he said was the threat posed by Williams, had put the lives of fellow officers at risk. Kuzma, the officer who had killed Williams, thought Mader should have shot him first.
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The only "threat" made by the victim (Williams) was to commit suicide. And, in fact, his gun wasn't even loaded. He wasn't a threat to anyone.

Mader’s actions at 119 Marie Ave. in May 2016 had instantly become the subject of analysis and gossip among the ranks of the tiny department. The word “coward” was being tossed around. Kuzma and Baker had taken the remarkable step of asking Alexander in writing never to assign them to work again with Mader. Two other members of the force signed on as well, and the memo was quietly slid under the chief’s door.
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pgwenthold said:
I'm more about this part:



The only "threat" made by the victim (Williams) was to commit suicide. And, in fact, his gun wasn't even loaded. He wasn't a threat to anyone.
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No, you don't get it. He posed a hypothetical threat to the lives the police officers; the most important lives, which must be protected at all costs in the strongest way possible.
 
pgwenthold said:
There was a case in NY I think a few years ago where a cop was trying to talk down a guy threatening to shoot himself. He had been talking with the guy for like 15 minutes when two guys arrived on backup, and within 30 seconds they had shot and killed the guy. Because, you know, he had a gun in his hand.

As a result, the guy that was there first was fired from the police force for failing to shoot the guy sooner and thereby putting the backup officers in danger when they arrived.

I am not joking. They called him a coward and a bad cop because he did not kill a guy who was threatening suicide.

And it stuck. He never got his job back.

I have said many times, this is a problem with defund the police. If they do that, who is going to kill those people who are threatening to commit suicide?
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It was West Virginia and he settled a lawsuit.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/12/stephen-mader-west-virginia-police-officer-settles-lawsuit
 
Belz... said:
No, you don't get it. He posed a hypothetical threat to the lives the police officers; the most important lives, which must be protected at all costs in the strongest way possible.
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It becomes clearer once you realize all the terrible things the black guy could have done in an alternative timeline where the cop didn't shoot him. In fact if we need them listed I think I know I guy...
 
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