Terrorists win election !

[zenith-nadir]

11:10 19/12/2005

Security forces on Monday morning chased down two Palestinians near Jerusalem who had apparently intended to carry out a terror attack in the capital city, Army Radio reported.

The two youths, who threw firebombs at security forces during the chase, were eventually arrested attempting to cross the separation fence near Jerusalem's southern Har Homa neighborhood. The two, aged 16 and 17, were carying carrying two pipe bombs, fire bombs and knives and had a Hamas flag.

In a separate incident, Israel Radio reported Monday morning that security forces have captured a Palestinian terrorist who had managed to infiltrate southern Israel from the Gaza Strip.

The terrorist, who was carrying an explosives belt, firearms and grenades, was captured near Kibbutz Nir Am, located adjacent to Sderot in the western Negev region near the Gaza border.

(emphasis mine)

It never stops. Day in day out, 24/7, 365, even after the disengagement from Gaza the Palestinian islamists still desire to terrorize and kill. Why? Because the goal is the destruction of Israel.

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement HAMAS

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it...

 

[billydkid]

Instead of moving towards a democratic state they have "elected" theocracy and terror.

(emphasis mine)

And whats an election without a few baby pictures?

Hamas supporters, one holding a copy of the Quran and a child on his shoulders, take part in a rally celebrating the group's strong showing in municipal elections in the West Bank town Jenin, Friday Dec. 16, 2005. (AP Photo/Mohammed Ballas)

Hamas supporters chant Islamic slogans celebrating the group's strong showing in municipal elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip Friday Dec. 16, 2005. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)

A Palestinian boy holding a toy gun is carried during a rally celebrating Hamas' victory in Palestinian local elections in the West Bank city of Tulkarem Friday Dec. 16, 2005. (AP Photo/Nasser Ishtayeh)

(emphasis mine)

As the famous saying goes: "Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

I think this simply illustrates the fact that democracy in itself is not necessarily synonymous with liberty.

 

[corplinx]

I think this simply illustrates the fact that democracy in itself is not necessarily synonymous with liberty.

Democracy is mob rule. We strive to promote governments which are "democratic". "Democratic" governments are usually a balance between the "will of the people" and a legislature so milquetoast that said will can be neutered.

Take Iraq: Sunni, Kurd, and Shiite. The extreme views of one faction or another can be dithered out by the necessity to reach consensus in goverment. In the palestinian case, the representative democracy represents much less diversity and give way to more extemism in goverment.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Once again, posts not relevant to the topic have been moved to Abandon All Hope. Please stick to the topic.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[zenith-nadir]

Thank you mods for taking out the trash. I appreciate it.

Meanwhile.

Well if it is not Hamas whos gonna ruin it for everyone maybe it'll be the Fatah terrorists who operate under the banner of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.

Armed Palestinian Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades gunmen stand outside Bethlehem's Municipality building. (AFP/Musa al-Shaer)

Tue Dec 20,10:43 AM ET


BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AFP) - Gunmen briefly occupied the offices of the mayor of Bethlehem in the countdown to Christmas, highlighting the rampant security chaos in the Palestinian territories.

Around 15 masked members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed offshoot of the ruling
Fatah movement, on Tuesday burst into the building on Manger Square, next to the Church of the Nativity where Jesus Christ is believed to have been born.

The gunmen then ordered all staff to leave and closed all the doors.

Members of the Brigades deployed by the entrance to the building said their colleagues had acted to protest at the Palestinian Authority's failure to provide financial assistance to some 300 activists.

"They have chosen to do this today in order to draw the international community's attention to this issue at a time when the eyes of the world are turned towards Bethlehem on the eve of Christmas," said one Brigades member.

So terrorists are now "activists". How droll.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Thank you mods for taking out the trash. I appreciate it.

I quite see why you would wish it to be erased.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I quite see why you would wish it to be erased.

And yet again you are completely off topic and trolling for a response. In case you missed it the mods ERASED your posts Dr Adequate. Someday you'll stop trolling and realize that when the mods start ERASING your posts more than once you are obviously doing something wrong. Go away.

Back to the topic:

12:47 21/12/2005

Palestinian gunmen abducted a Dutch school principal and his Australian deputy Wednesday, as they drove to work at a private American school north of Gaza City, witnesses and security officials said.

About 2 kilometers from the school, armed men stopped the foreigners' blue Honda Civic. The kidnappers forced the two men out of the Honda, bundled them into another vehicle and drove off, witnesses said.

Disorder and chaos are widespread in Gaza, where foreigners have been kidnapped on several occasions by gunmen, who use the captives to press demands from Palestinian authorities.

Kidnapping teachers at gunpoint today, storming the offices of the mayor of Bethlehem yesterday, launching rockets into Israel every day. It's truely terror-ville.

10:55 21/12/2005

Israel is threatening to cut off the Gaza Strip's electricity supply if a Qassam rocket hits a vital Israeli infrastructure facility.

On Sunday, after a Qassam rocket fired from Gaza landed not far from an Israel Electric Corporation power plant south of Ashkelon, Israel told the Palestinian Authority that it planned to shut off power for two hours in the early hours of Monday morning, as a warning of things to come if the Qassam fire did not stop.

Five Qassams landed in Israel Tuesday: one on an army base, and the other four in open areas near Sderot and the western Negev. Israel realiated by shelling the open areas from which the rockets were launched.

(emphasis mine)

Masked and armed Palestinian militants of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades stand on the rooftop of the Fatah movement building in the Khan Younis refugee camp, southern of Gaza Strip Tuesday, Dec. 20, 2005. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)

Fatah is the ruling party of the Palestinian Authority.

 

[Dr Adequate]

And yet again you are completely off topic and trolling for a response. In case you missed it the mods ERASED your posts Dr Adequate. Someday you'll stop trolling and realize that when the mods start ERASING your posts more than once you are obviously doing something wrong.

Ah, irony.

Where ZN's posts went to.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Wed Dec 21, 6:13 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Seventy U.S. senators on Wednesday called on President George W. Bush to make it clear to Palestinian leaders that Hamas and other groups that the United States wants terrorist organizations to disarm or be banned from upcoming Palestinian elections.

The Senate letter follows a resolution passed overwhelmingly last week by the House of Representatives that also urged the exclusion of Hamas from the January 25 parliamentary ballot.

The House resolution said Hamas' participation could undermine the ability of the United States to provide assistance to the Palestinian Authority.

Senators said they were "deeply disappointed" that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas "has yet to do what the Palestinian Authority has committed to doing on numerous occasions -- asserting its control over the terrorist groups that operate freely within the West Bank and Gaza."

(emphasis mine)

Palestinian Islamic militant group Hamas' candidates for the Legislative Council from (R-L) Youssef al-Shrafi, Atef Odwan, Ismail al Ashqar, Mohammed Shhab, and Mushir al-Musri, pose after a meeting in Gaza December 21, 2005. (Mohammed Salem/Reuters)

Dutchman Hendrik Taatgen (bottom, left), principal of the American International School in the northern Gaza Strip and his Australian assistant Brian Ambrosio (bottom, right) in an image grab from a video released by their kidnappers shows the two men with their masked kidnappers standing behind them. The two men were released and taken to the Gaza City headquarters of the Palestinian Authority.(AFP/HO)

Armed Palestinian militants from al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades address the media during a news conference in the West Bank city of Bethlehem December 21, 2005. Palestinian gunmen briefly seized Bethlehem city hall, overlooking the Church of the Nativity, on Tuesday in a jarring interruption to Christmas preparations in the traditional birthplace of Jesus. (REUTERS/Ammar Awad)

Just another day under the Palestinian Authority.

{edited to add}

11:53 Dec 21, '05

IDF figures show that the Disengagement from Gaza did not bring about a drop in rocket attacks against Sderot and the western Negev.

...there were 62 Kassam attacks in September (all in the second half of the month), 16 in October, 29 in November, and 49 so far this month. In total, then, there were 156 rockets since Israel's unilateral withdrawal from Gaza this past August. Over 80 more Gaza-fired Kassams landed during this period inside Gaza, short of their targets.

Twenty-five Israelis, including 22 civilians, were wounded in the attacks, though none seriously.

 

[webfusion]

meanwhile, from up North...

Islamic Jihad, coordinating rocket attacks from gaza into Israel, managed to launch a volley of Katyushas at Israel from Lebanon as well --

According to reports from the Israeli town of Kiryat Shmona:
"a dog was badly injured."

• Lebanese security sources said Lebanon had sent a letter to the United Nations Security Council saying that "the Lebanese authorities are conducting an investigation to find the culprits who launched the Katyusha rockets into northern Israel earlier Wednesday from southern Lebanon."
  
  UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan also condemned the rocket attacks on Wednesday. He urged the Lebanese government to extend control over "all its territory, to exert its monopoly on the use of force and to put an end to all such attacks."

Sounds so familiar?

Woof.

 

[President Bush]

Take Iraq: Sunni, Kurd, and Shiite. The extreme views of one faction or another can be dithered out by the necessity to reach consensus in goverment.

Oh, yeah? Let's see you try to involve these Sunni insurgents in this political process...

Damn the inbred, jelly-boned pomegranates, the belly-waving invertebrates, the polka-dot yogurt spattered asshats, the the low down binge-vomiting, weeping, hamstrung, jinxed pulseless lump that makes up Iraq today. Golly, they frost me! May Allah smack them, fig-nerds.

 

[natascha]

I don'T want to pop your bubble but the judgement day have arrived and if you look in israel right now you see a change ariel want to make peace and even have elected a minister of peace the day of the christ have come and you are not even told by are common friend bush that knows about it why do you think they can not drill in alaska because of god in person ask the leftbehind.com to tell the truth once and for all and pope benedict 16

 

[webfusion]

bubble gum

Judgement Day, better pack my things up in the kit bag, time to be moving along...

 

[zenith-nadir]

I don'T want to pop your bubble but the judgement day have arrived and if you look in israel right now you see a change ariel want to make peace and even have elected a minister of peace the day of the christ have come and you are not even told by are common friend bush that knows about it why do you think they can not drill in alaska because of god in person ask the leftbehind.com to tell the truth once and for all and pope benedict 16

I guess good grammar isn't required in heaven.

Meanwhile in the world of Hamas.

Dec. 31, 2005 13:02

Representatives of the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad told Israel Radio on Saturday that recent violent confrontations between the two groups in Rafah were the result of tensions between the organizations and their respective leaders: Hamas' Khaled Mashal and Ramadan Shalah of the Jihad, both of whom live abroad.

Shots were fired on Friday near mosques in Beit Hanoun and Rafah in the Gaza Strip.

The factions have been struggling over whose representatives will deliver sermons, one of the key forms of elections propaganda.

Key sentence:

"The factions have been struggling over whose representatives will deliver sermons, one of the key forms of elections propaganda.

Religion = Politics, Sermons = election propoganda.

Dec. 31, 2005 7:48

The political chief of Hamas, the militant Palestinian group, said on Friday the organization would participate in upcoming legislative elections but would not negotiate with Israel, vowing to continue its armed struggle against the Jewish State.

"We will enter the parliament and (engage in) political work ... without giving up one inch of Palestine," Khaled Mashaal said in a speech marking the 18th anniversary of the founding of Hamas.

Gee...thanks for the update Khaled. Who's child will you send to blow themselves up in Israel this week?

So what do these terror leaders - who just happen to live in Syria - look like?

Images courtesy of intelligence.org.il.

p.s. Abu Mazen is Mahmoud Abbas.

 

[zenith-nadir]

12:29 31/12/2005

An Israeli inter-ministerial team is scheduled to begin work Sunday to formulate Israel's official stand in the event that Hamas takes control over the Palestinian Authority, following assessments that Hamas is expected to do well in the January 25 Palestinian Legislative Council elections, Israel Radio reported Saturday.

The team was formed in light of the anarchy spreading in the PA and the PA's inability to enforce the law, the radio said.

Will the terrorists of Hamas - designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the EU, US, Canada and Israel - win the primary Palestinian elections in January? Stay tuned.

 

[webfusion]

Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a senior Hamas leader in the West Bank currently imprisoned in Israel, issued a dramatic statement Saturday withdrawing his candidacy for the Palestinian parliamentary elections set for January 25.

Oh well, Marwan Barghouti, also inside an Israeli jail, is still in the running...
and is doing very well in the polls.

 

[Euromutt]

Okay, fab, wonderful, it has been more than adequately demonstrated that Hamas is a nasty organization. Yet none of it goes any way to answering the rather apposite question Webfusion posted on the first page:

HAMAS is likely to ignore all external threats (especially by the US House of Representatives, which yesterday passed a resolution condemning HAMAS participation) and resist internal attempts to stop their joining in the January Parliamentary Elections.

What then?

Not only that, but they might do equally well in those elections. The problem is that the message Hamas is putting out evidently has appeal among Palestinians, and the solution does not lie in repeating that the message is wrong (even though I won't disagree that it is), but in trying to come up with a way of reducing its appeal.

This is not a solution:

[...] I can tell you what should happen. The people who have historically been supporters of the Palestinians should take them to the woodshed. They -- and by they I mean old Europe, the American left, Russia, etc., have to explain to them that by electing terrorists they are sending an entirely unambiguous signal that they do not desire statehood and an equally unambiguous signal that they don't deserve statehood. They have to start telling the Palestinians that they are risking diaspora. The end of the 50+ year struggle to create something called Palestine. They have to make it crystal clear that the entire world, including Palestine's supporters, are united in their resolve that Israel will exist on more or less its current borders and that people who believe that Israel should not exist are the enemy. They have to say that Palestine will not get further support from its former supporters -- no money, no diplomatic cover in the UN, no rhetorical support, nothing, until they straighten up and fly right.

That, ideally, is what then.

It won't work. I won't claim special insight into the Palestinian psyche, but I know a thing or two about nationalist mythoi, and I suspect the Palestinians fit the templates.
First and foremost, the threat of diaspora carries no terror; according to Palestinian nationalist mythos, that's exactly what they had from 1948 until the early 1990s; they (believe that they) overcame it once, and they can overcome it again.
Secondly, the Palestinian nationalist mythos, certainly among the populations which remained in the Occupied Territories from 1967 onwards, holds that the determining factor in the concessions Israel made towards Palestinian proto-statehood in the early 1990s was the (First) Intifada. And, to be blunt, that notion is not without merit. Note that Islamist groups like Hamas, which were based in the Occupied Territories at the time, played an active part in the Intifada (though probably nowhere near as large as the mythos credits them with) as opposed to exile groups like Fatah (especially Fatah) which were sidelined in Tunis at the time. Thus, in the Palestinian nationalist mythos (especially in the Gaza Strip), Hamas and PIJ are liberators, while Fatah and the PFLP are Ahmed-come-latelies who tried to hog the spoils of the Islamists' achievements. This lies at the root of the PA's (i.e. Fatah's) inability to whip the Islamists into line.
Thirdly, even if "they" (i.e. "old Europe, the American left, Russia, etc.") were to do Manny's bidding, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. "They," at most, supported the exile groups like Fatah and the PFLP. Hamas, to paraphrase Australian journalist Geraldine Brooks, "has 'Made In Saudi Arabia' stamped all over it," as has every Islamist group which originated in the Gaza Strip. Hamas' "social activities"--medical care, education facilities, soup kitchens, daycare, Islamic law loan societies, etc.--were made possible by generous donations from Saudi Arabian nationals, who required a Wahhabist message be attached to the services rendered*. The Saudi government has cracked down on "private" contributions to Hamas et al. since 9/11, but the damage was already done a decade earlier. Hamas became popular then, and nobody--Fatah, the Israelis or whoever--is managing to do anything to make them less popular now.

Arguably, Sharon made a huge mistake in withdrawing from the Gaza Strip. Not so much the withdrawal per se, as his choice in the area from which to withdraw. The Strip is Hamas' home ground, so the Palestinians may be forgiven for thinking that, while the Israelis will hold in the face of Fatah, they will withdraw where Hamas grows strong. So, to the Palestinian mind, the quickest route to Palestinian autonomy is to support Hamas in the West Bank as well.

* - And forget this whole "Arab unity" thing; Arabs agree on two things, and two things only: first, hatred of Jews; second, hatred of Palestinians. Support for Hamas etc. was simply a Gulfie method of encouraging Palestinians to get themselves killed while killing Jews. Suicide bombings in particular provide a fabulous way to kill multiple birds with one stone.

 

[zenith-nadir]

The problem is that the message Hamas is putting out evidently has appeal among Palestinians, and the solution does not lie in repeating that the message is wrong (even though I won't disagree that it is), but in trying to come up with a way of reducing its appeal.

I agree that "the solution does not lie in repeating that the message is wrong but in trying to come up with a way of reducing its appeal". The problem is Hamas is no different from Al Queda. It's goal is to establish an Islamic theocracy in the area that is currently Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Hamas sees "Palestine" as an Islamic homeland that can never be surrendered to non-Muslims.

So in order to "try to come up with a way of reducing its appeal" one would have to reducing the appeal of the islamic fundamentalism that drives Hamas. This obviously would be met with strong resistance since the fundamentalists of Hamas would see this "reduction of appeal" as an attack upon "islam"...as they see it.

Hamas and PIJ are liberators, while Fatah and the PFLP are Ahmed-come-latelies who tried to hog the spoils of the Islamists' achievements.

The old guard of Fatah, which have run the Palestinian Authority since 1993 are refered to as "The Tunisians" by alot of Palestinians. You are correct Euromutt, the old guard - the Tunisians - refuse to share power with those Palestinians who spent time in Israeli prisons for playing an active role in the first intifada.

...to paraphrase Australian journalist Geraldine Brooks, "has 'Made In Saudi Arabia' stamped all over it," as has every Islamist group which originated in the Gaza Strip. Hamas' "social activities"--medical care, education facilities, soup kitchens, daycare, Islamic law loan societies, etc.--were made possible by generous donations from Saudi Arabian nationals, who required a Wahhabist message be attached to the services rendered*.

Case in point:

Sunday, July 31, 2005 - San Francisco Chronicle

Seventeen-year-old Osama Abu Asi knows what Hamas stands for: swimming lessons, horseback riding, potato sack races and other summertime fun -- including religious education and paramilitary training.

This is summer camp in the Gaza Strip, as organized by Harakat al-Moqawama al-Islamiyah, the Islamic Resistance Movement, better known as Hamas -- which is officially regarded by the United States and many other countries as a terrorist organization that has killed hundreds of Israelis.

"In this camp we learn the important things of life -- good behavior, respect," said Osama, who was spending the summer at a Hamas-run camp on the beach outside Gaza City.

They also learn how to sing "intifada songs," including one urging them to "kill Zionists wherever they are, in the name of God."

Fatah, the ruling Palestinian party in the occupied territories, and other groups -- Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, for example -- also offer camps. But a tour of camps in Gaza found most bearing the green flag of Hamas.

But while Hamas leaders point to their social programs as the reason for the camps' popularity, Israelis -- and some Palestinians -- are far more critical of what the young campers are learning besides horseback riding and the backstroke.

At one beach camp, attended by approximately 100 kids, an instructor wore a heavy flannel shirt under which a webbed belt could be seen strapped to his stomach. Asked by a reporter what it was, he answered, with a broad smile, "Boom!"

The instructor led a group of young teenagers through marching drills on the sand -- facing movements, close quarter drill. With a smile at the reporter, he put a megaphone to his lips.

"What are you?" he called.

"Monsters!" the kids replied.

"What are you?!"

"MONSTERS!"

As the instructor, Sa'eb Dormush, stepped aside for an interview, a youth in the group shouted out "moqawama!" -- resistance.

"That is the first word they learn when they are born," Dormush said with a laugh. "This is the next generation."

Across camp, a group of younger children -- most between 10 and 12 -- sat in a circle in the sand singing one of the "intifada songs" they learn at camp. One boy sang verses in a rolling soprano as the others joined in on the one-word chorus.

"We don't want to sleep.

HA-A-MAS!

We want revenge.

HA-A-MAS!

Raise it up.

HA-A-MAS!

Rifle fire.

HA-A-MAS!

If it will take a thousand martyrs.

HA-A-MAS!

Kill Zionists.

HA-A-MAS!

Wherever they are.

HA-A-MAS!

In the name of God.

HA-A-MAS!"

Such activities prompt Israeli officials to look harshly at the camps, especially when combined with statements from Hamas officials such as Gaza leader Mahmoud al-Zahar, who said in a recent interview that despite the current shaky hudna (truce) with Israel, Hamas will continue to attack Jewish settlements in the West Bank until Israel disengages from that area. He also said that he remains devoted to the elimination of the state of Israel altogether.

(emphasis mine)

That is an example of a recent Hamas "social" program which the useful idiots often point to to prove Hamas's "benevolent" side...but they never acknowledge the "Kill Zionists...in the name of God" parts.

 

[natascha]

sorry for my writing I am french canadian and o.k. why did the jews came back to israel they left israel at first because they were told to go in germany then arrived hitler and god told them to go before the money of god would be taken to kill the jews and for world domination this money was pick up for the comming of the savior in 2006 and so they have left in a boat and every body refused them even united states and canada so they were sicks and dying and god told them to go back to the land of israel to save the money so when they have arrived they said nothing and said o.k. the arabs get out of the way so they took a big peace of land if you would have been in charge of the money of god you would have done the same thing to protect that money anyway pope benedict went to see the palestinian and told them to stop fighting because the jews had a very good reason to do so so palestinian turn around and cry to iran and iran said o.k. why should they paid for the hitler guy and lets deport them back to europe .

 

[webfusion]

"sorry for my writing"

As you should be.