Terrorists win election !

[zenith-nadir]

Instead of moving towards a democratic state they have "elected" theocracy and terror.

Associated Press

NABLUS, West Bank - Hamas supporters on Friday celebrated a landslide election victory in major West Bank towns, the strongest sign yet of the Islamic militant group's growing political appeal ahead of Jan. 25 parliamentary elections.

Thousands of Hamas supporters joined victory marches after Friday prayers. In Jenin, where Hamas won a majority of local council seats, marchers chanted, "To Jerusalem we march, martyrs by the millions!" and held up copies of the Quran.

In Nablus, Hamas won 73 percent of the vote and 13 seats on the 15-member council. The two remaining seats went to a coalition of Fatah and independent candidates.

In nearby Jenin, Hamas won eight seats, according to unofficial results, while a coalition of Fatah and the radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine garnered seven.

(emphasis mine)

And whats an election without a few baby pictures?

Hamas supporters, one holding a copy of the Quran and a child on his shoulders, take part in a rally celebrating the group's strong showing in municipal elections in the West Bank town Jenin, Friday Dec. 16, 2005. (AP Photo/Mohammed Ballas)

Hamas supporters chant Islamic slogans celebrating the group's strong showing in municipal elections in the West Bank and Gaza Strip Friday Dec. 16, 2005. (AP Photo/Adel Hana)

A Palestinian boy holding a toy gun is carried during a rally celebrating Hamas' victory in Palestinian local elections in the West Bank city of Tulkarem Friday Dec. 16, 2005. (AP Photo/Nasser Ishtayeh)

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) at www.library.cornell.edu

• Introduction: Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.
• Article Seven: The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
• Article Thirteen: There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.
• Article Fifteen: The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.
• Article Twenty: In their Nazi treatment, the Jews made no exception for women or children. Their policy of striking fear in the heart is meant for all.
• Article Twenty-Seven: Secularism completely contradicts religious ideology. Attitudes, conduct and decisions stem from ideologies.
• Article Twenty-Eight: Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep." The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion. It does not refrain from resorting to all methods, using all evil and contemptible ways to achieve its end. It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion.
• Article Thirty-Two: Islamic groupings all over the Arab world should also do the same, since all of these are the best-equipped for the future role in the fight with the warmongering Jews.

(emphasis mine)

As the famous saying goes: "Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

 

[webfusion]

But it was their choice

So, let's say, for the sake of argument, the HAMAS runs a candidate for leadership of the Parliament, and this guy has to function in the "mainstream" political arena of the Palestinian Authority.

For one thing, HAMAS is not merely a group of armed thugs. Yeah, they have plenty of those, to be sure, but they are also active in many Palestinian civil matters, including day-care, elderly-care, soup kitchens, islamic-law loan societies, student councils, etc...

Since their popularity is obvious on the Palestinian street, it is worth asking, what negative effect will they have as members of the Palestinian Government after gaining entry into the day-to-day Parliamentary mechanism?

I know that the USA is threatening to discontinue financial aid, and the Israelis aren't thrilled, but where does HAMAS fit into the political scene among the Palestinians themselves? After all, beyond the rhetoric of "destroy Israel" they actually will have to build their own institutions and economy and work with the secular elements of their society.

The thread can be about the nasty terrorists in HAMAS, or it can be about the reality of how HAMAS is going to be a factor...

 

[zenith-nadir]

Yeah, they have plenty of those, to be sure, but they are also active in many Palestinian civil matters, including day-care, elderly-care, soup kitchens, islamic-law loan societies, student councils, etc...

If the Ku Klux Klan had soup kitchens for the poor I would not support the Ku Klux Klan. If the Ku Klux Klan had daycares for little white babies I still would not support the Ku Klux Klan. If the Ku Klux Klan had student councils I still would not support the Ku Klux Klan.

So why should I support Hamas?

Hamas's social welfare programs are "a front" to promote their racist and violent islamist ideology... and I can prove it using a third party:

Sunday, July 31, 2005 The San Francisco Chronicle

Seventeen-year-old Osama Abu Asi knows what Hamas stands for: swimming lessons, horseback riding, potato sack races and other summertime fun -- including religious education and paramilitary training.

"In this camp we learn the important things of life -- good behavior, respect," said Osama, who was spending the summer at a Hamas-run camp on the beach outside Gaza City.

They also learn how to sing "intifada songs," including one urging them to "kill Zionists wherever they are, in the name of God."

Other campers gave similar responses when asked what they were learning from the bearded instructors who stood nearby as they spoke and sometimes whispered suggested answers.

At one beach camp, attended by approximately 100 kids, an instructor wore a heavy flannel shirt under which a webbed belt could be seen strapped to his stomach. Asked by a reporter what it was, he answered, with a broad smile, "Boom!"

The instructor led a group of young teenagers through marching drills on the sand -- facing movements, close quarter drill. With a smile at the reporter, he put a megaphone to his lips.

"What are you?" he called.

"Monsters!" the kids replied.

"What are you?!"

"MONSTERS!"

As the instructor, Sa'eb Dormush, stepped aside for an interview, a youth in the group shouted out "moqawama!" -- resistance.

"That is the first word they learn when they are born," Dormush said with a laugh. "This is the next generation."

Emphasis mine.

 

[Zep]

From the OP source:

Yasser Mansour, Hamas' spokesman for the northern West Bank, said the group was willing to talk to Israel, at least about local issues.

"We are open to Europe and the Arab world, and we have no problem sitting with the Israelis to discuss municipal affairs," he said.

Yep, sure sounds like a war is on the cards, ZN...

 

[zenith-nadir]

From the OP source:Yep, sure sounds like a war is on the cards, ZN...

Wow. You got me there Zep. Boy is my face red. I guess if Yasser Mansour, Hamas' spokesman says something that's good enough for you to negate the content of the Hamas Charter, several years of terrorism and Hamas's well-documented islamist ideology.

By the way Zep you have any kids? Perhaps they would be willing to go to the Hamas summer camp. Their counsellor will be the one with the bomb vest under his heavy flannel shirt - (see above).

 

[Skeptic]

Wow. You got me there Zep. Boy is my face red. I guess if Yasser Mansour, Hamas' spokesman says something that's good enough for you to negate the content of the Hamas Charter, several years of terrorism and Hamas's well-documented islamist ideology.

By the way Zep you have any kids? Perhaps they would be willing to go to the Hamas summer camp. Their counsellor will be the one with the bomb vest under his heavy flannel shirt - (see above).

It doesn't matter what Hamas does or says. They can say "we want to kill all the jews!"--and they say it--and can kill all jews they can reach--and they do just that--but Zep & co. will always always always ALWAYS find some excuse why they don't really mean what they say or that, if they mean it, it's all because they jews drove them to it.

The reason is simple: Zep & co. had, stupidly, supported "Palestinian Liberation" for years. To admit the essence of "Palestinian Liberation" is, was, and probably will be simply a euphemism for "the destruction of israel and a second holocaust" is to admit they were hoodwinked for years.

They will never admit it. After all, what's really more important: a few million butchered jews, thousands of miles away, or their precious self-esteem?

...exactly.

P.S.

You're saying "Terrorists Win Elections" as if the Fatah and PLO factions who ran against Hamas were different in any way.

 

[webfusion]

Your vote doesn't count...

Zenith-Nadir, your OP refers to an open democratic election.
The guys in the green bandanas won.

And this question arose --

So why should I support Hamas?

You shouldn't.

Now, how do you propose to bring about the end of HAMAS participation in Palestinian society? Would the assassination of more and more HAMAS leaders meet with your approval? Perhaps a one-ton bomb onto a session of the Palestinian Parliament, to eliminate the entire HAMAS top leaders at once?

Just curious where you see this leading...

 

[Skeptic]

Now, how do you propose to bring about the end of HAMAS participation in Palestinian society? Would the assassination of more and more HAMAS leaders meet with your approval? Perhaps a one-ton bomb onto a session of the Palestinian Parliament, to eliminate the entire HAMAS top leaders at once?

One can always hope, I guess.

 

[webfusion]

Thats' nuts --

Skeptic, would you also be in favor of dropping a bomb onto the HAMAS-cheering crowd pictured here? --

What exactly are you trying to say to us, your fellow participants-in-good-standing of the JREF? Think carefully before you answer.


==============================

eta ---- (from Israeli News reports): Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom reiterated his stance that acquiescence to Hamas' participation in elections runs counter to Israeli interests, warning that Israel would impede Palestinian free movement and deny access to the polling stations during elections in the event the radical Islamic group does run.

"The participation of Hamas in the elections will result in the establishment of 'Hamastan' in the territories and will put us back 50 years," Shalom said.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Zenith-Nadir, your OP refers to an open democratic election.

Exactly. And the "winners" of said election are designated a terror organization by the E.U., U.S., Canada and Israel.

Now, how do you propose to bring about the end of HAMAS participation in Palestinian society?

You can't. The Palestinians voted for the party who has popular support. Unfortunately the party the Palestinians voted for is a designated terror organization by the E.U., U.S., Canada and Israel.

Would the assassination of more and more HAMAS leaders meet with your approval?

I prefer to hate Hamas for what it is, what it's done and what it stands for. The assassination of more and more HAMAS leaders will not make Hamas change it's tune or become anything else.

Perhaps a one-ton bomb onto a session of the Palestinian Parliament, to eliminate the entire HAMAS top leaders at once?

Nope. I am not bloodthirsty, nor do I seek to bomb people. But here is the Hamas leadership in action and here is what the Palestinians can look forward to.

Saturday 24 September 2005

aljazeera - The Fatah faction of Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas has blamed the resistance group Hamas for the deadly blast at a military parade in Gaza that killed at least 19 people and wounded 80 others.

Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told AFP "an Israeli drone fired several rockets at a convoy of cars participating in the parade, creating a large number of martyrs and injured. This is an abominable Israeli crime."

Speaking to Aljazeera, Hamas representative in Beirut Osama Hamdan said tens of Palestinian have seen with their own eyes the Israeli missiles falling down, and expressed dismay over the official statements issued by the Palestinian Authority which attributed the matter to an explosion resulting from "internal error" just minutes after the incident.

Hassan Yousof, another Hamas leader, also expressed surprise as to how the Palestinian Authority rushed to adopt the Israeli version and reject the testimonies of tens of Palestinians who saw the missiles coming from the Israeli spy planes.

(emphasis mine)

What a bunch of honest upstanding guys....

Or maybe instead of blowing up Palestinians at parades Hamas will continue to target Israelis or Israeli universities.

August 1, 2002 Posted: 11:13 AM EDT

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- An explosion Wednesday at Jerusalem's Hebrew University killed at least seven people, including four Americans, hospital officials and U.S. officials said.

Police called the blast a terrorist act, and Palestinian sources in Gaza said that the Islamic fundamentalist group Hamas was claiming responsibility for the explosion.

Gosh...I am all warm and fuzzy inside with hope for the future now Hamas is winning elections.

 

[zenith-nadir]

But why listen to me? I am just "a nothing" who opposes Hamas.

What do the analysts at the RAND Corporation think about Hamas?

January 16, 2004

Mr. Simon is a senior analyst at the RAND Corporation.

Unlike the Irish Republican Army, Hamas — the largest and most powerful of the religiously based Palestinian terrorist groups — cannot be tamed by political compromise. Hamas’s radical Islamist doctrine indicates that even in a new Palestinian state, Hamas will try to use the state as a platform first to defeat its secular rivals and ultimately to extinguish the state of Israel. Hamas, then, must be coercively disarmed. If it is not, any new state will be doomed to instability and probably civil war.

(emphasis mine)

 

[hammegk]

... would you also be in favor of dropping a bomb onto the HAMAS-cheering crowd pictured here? --

Only along with assasination of 'leaders-as-identified' and if one intended to continue the practice until such crowds no longer formed.

 

[webfusion]

Yet, HAMAS is likely to ignore all external threats (especially by the US House of Representatives, which yesterday passed a resolution condemning HAMAS participation) and resist internal attempts to stop their joining in the January Parliamentary Elections.

What then?

If the Palestinians prefer to be represented by Islamic militant fundamentalists, then they have made their bed poorly and they have to lie in it.

What then?

 

[Morrison's Lament]

Palestinians are well educated and generally do not want a theocratic regime. This election result is not an expression of any such will but rather a consequence of the political climate surrounding the ongoing conflict.

Solve the conflict and Hamas goes away, and they know this.

--- G.

 

[Melendwyr]

Instead of moving towards a democratic state they have "elected" theocracy and terror.

On the contrary, they're now a democratic state.

Democracy, when the people desire theocracy and tyranny, rapidly becomes indistinguishable from either.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Palestinians are well educated and generally do not want a theocratic regime. This election result is not an expression of any such will but rather a consequence of the political climate surrounding the ongoing conflict.

Solve the conflict and Hamas goes away, and they know this.

--- G.

I disagree. Hamas in not a western-like political party, it is a fundamentalist ideology and a designated terror organization.

Let's look at the past 14 months. Arafraud died and nothing changed. Abbas was elected and nothing changed. Israel released 900 Palestinian prisoners and nothing changed. Israel removed every single Israeli citizen out of Gaza, destroyed all the settlements and once again, nothing changed. Fatah had preliminary elections, and surprise, they were cancelled due to violence and fraud so yet again nothing changed.

After all that, Arafat's death, Abbas's election, the release of prisoners, the disengagement from Gaza and Fatah preliminary elections the Palestinians still voted in the islamic fundamentalists of Hamas.

You can bet you boots things will become more strained and more militant with a recognized fundamentalist terror organzation in power.

{edited to add}

Dec 17, 2005

JERUSALEM - Associated Press - An explosion in the southern Gaza Strip killed a militant who fired homemade rockets at Israel on Saturday and wounded three other people, Palestinian officials said.

Palestinian militants are routinely killed when their unstable, homemade explosives accidentally detonate.

Abu Seta and other militants were on their way back from launching rockets at Israel when the explosion happened, security officials said on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

It's the same old same old. Nothing will change.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Only along with assasination of 'leaders-as-identified' and if one intended to continue the practice until such crowds no longer formed.

So, you advocate killing thousands of people to supress a few leaders, and would support bombing them into submission? Totally aside from the moral issues that brings up, are you aware that deliberately bombing civilians has been historically shown to temper rather than shatter the resolve of the population? You would be making a martyr in every family.

Or, is your desired goal the destruction Hamas via the destruction of the Palastinian people?

 

[hammegk]

Problems, problems. Dresden all over again. Think of the children, and those in Dresden didn't even have suicide vests.

 

[zenith-nadir]

And the "fun" never stops.

Dec. 13, 2005 18:29

The PA's central election commission decided to suspend all its activities in protest against a rash of attacks against its offices and employees in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Election officials said they would not return to work until the PA can guarantee the safety of their workers.

"We are protesting the aggression against our offices today," said Ammar Dwaik, director of the election commission. "We have suspended all work until we receive security for our offices and our staff."

Nabil Abu Rudaineh, a spokesman for Abbas, said the PA chairman, who met with the heads of the election committee, promised to impose law and order. "President Abbas has instructed security commanders to immediately take required measures against the aggressors and to protect the election commission offices all over the West Bank and Gaza Strip," Abu Rudaineh said.

So who are the "aggressors" attacking Palestinian election officials?

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP)

In Nablus on Tuesday, eight masked gunmen stormed the election office, fired in the air and ordered workers out of the building.

The gunmen destroyed three computers and took two others, then opened fire again as they sped away in two cars. Later, the masked militants posed for TV cameras while stepping on a computer.

Jamal Tirawi, an Al Aqsa leader in the nearby Balata refugee camp, accused the Palestinian leadership of forcing candidates off the ballot.

"They excluded a number of Fatah members who won in the primaries," he said. "We don't want elections of this type, in which they are forced from above."

In the Gaza Strip, dozens of Al Aqsa gunmen also stormed election offices.

In Gaza City, some 80 masked gunmen took over the commission's regional office and marked it with a red "X," with a statement saying Al Aqsa had closed the office "until the crisis is resolved."

So the "aggressors" attacking Palestinian election officials are Fatah's own Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades who wish to dictate - at the end of a gun - who is eligible for the elections and who is not.

But wait there's more:

Dec. 17, 2005 17:16

The Palestinian Authority and Hamas on Saturday rejected threats by the US House of Representatives to cut off financial aid to the Palestinians if Hamas is permitted to participate in next month's parliamentary elections.

The conditions set out by Congress for participation in the Palestinian elections require Hamas and other groups to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, to stop terrorism and condemn the use of violence, to stop incitement and to dismantle their terror infrastructure.

"We categorically reject this decision," PA chief negotiator Saeb Erekat told reporters in Ramallah. "These are Palestinian elections and everyone should respect the democratic choice of the Palestinian people."

So in summary:

Fatah's own Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terrorists attacked several of the PA's election stations forcing them to close in protest and cancelling the preliminary Fatah election. PA chief negotiator Saeb Erekat complains that the US should respect the election - if it even takes place - which will include Fatah members, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terrorists and Hamas terrorists. While in parts of the West Bank a designated terror organization - by the U.S., E.U., Canada and Israel - won 73% of the vote.

Now go negotiate peace with the Palestinians Israel!

 

[webfusion]

We get the point, ZN

OK, all the information you posted is acknowledged, ZN. The HAMAS is a bunch of maniacs, the entire Palestinian social situation has not improved, the PA under Abbas is little changed than under Arafrat.

But, one thing has not changed: Israel has not sat down to negotiate.
Arik Sharon maintains no interest in doing so, especially now.

The Israelis indeed left Gaza, but that did not end their occupation, and Arik Sharon isn't about to make any gestures whatsoever over the next few months, in the middle of his own re-election campaign. Which leaves HAMAS in a pretty good position come January to make major gains. Silvan Shalom can rant and rave all he wants about HAMAS and both Israel and the USA can demand all they want that they not run! But run they will...

So, I repeat ---
HAMAS is likely to ignore all external threats (especially by the US House of Representatives, which yesterday passed a resolution condemning HAMAS participation) and resist internal attempts to stop their joining in the January Parliamentary Elections.

What then?