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TERFs crash London Pride

My mistake. I thought it was lesbians preoccupied with the expectation that they take transwomen as lovers with the same willingness that they take ciswomen as lovers.


Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote.

You may be right, and that would be just as weird.

Being transgender doesn't have anything to do with what other people's expectations are as far as who they would want for partners.

Anyone who is transgender is going to be very aware of the fact that most of the cisgendered are going to view them as unattractive for partners, regardless of their sexual preferences.

Their expectations are going to be very low in all cases, despite what some lesbians might believe.
 
The part that burns my biscuits is how the TERF types got half the youngins on the internet to buy into their "Queer is a slur!" BS. The folks from the 80s are having to step up all the time to explain to kids who heard it on Facebook that hey, ok, if you don't like the word 'Queer' that's fine, you don't have to use it, but don't go telling people who identify as Queer that they're not allowed to, and also please learn some history and context.

I get the impression that TERFs and other gatekeepers hate "Queer" because it's an umbrella term that doesn't require you to pick alphabet soup letters and get into your correct pigeonhole. You can be Queer before (and after!) you're sure exactly what you are.

(Mentioning it cause the group mentioned in the OP had a big "lesbian not queer" sign.)
 
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Sounds like we need an updated version of the song, National Brotherhood Week; we could call it National Intersectional Week.

"And everybody hates the straights!"
 
The part that burns my biscuits is how the TERF types got half the youngins on the internet to buy into their "Queer is a slur!" BS. The folks from the 80s are having to step up all the time to explain to kids who heard it on Facebook that hey, ok, if you don't like the word 'Queer' that's fine, you don't have to use it, but don't go telling people who identify as Queer that they're not allowed to, and also please learn some history and context.

I get the impression that TERFs and other gatekeepers hate "Queer" because it's an umbrella term that doesn't require you to pick alphabet soup letters and get into your correct pigeonhole. You can be Queer before (and after!) you're sure exactly what you are.

(Mentioning it cause the group mentioned in the OP had a big "lesbian not queer" sign.)

Eh, I don't think is due to TERF rhetoric (there were only 8 people here after all). I think you are unfairly dismissing the history and context of the people who hear it as a slur. We don't actually have one shared or "legitimate" experience or history, and we didn't all get together and agree on "reclaiming".

I also question if it is a generational divide where it was accepted previously and now is being questioned by those who "don't know their history". My experience has been the opposite, and young people are less likely to want specific labels.

I don't think I've met anyone who actually told someone they couldn't identify as queer, but I don't think the frustration people can have is bigotry when the identity can lead to silliness like "Can Straight People Be Queer?"
 
I'm certainly not gonna say your mileage can't vary, but I see over and over people on Tumblr etc making some commentary on why they like to identify themselves as queer, and getting younger folks replying to say "Don't you know queer is a slur and you shouldn't use it on people who aren't comfortable with being called a slur." And OP is left going "I literally.. was saying I like to use it.. on myself... Do you really feel the need to come in here and tell me my chosen self-identification is a slur?"

It's a new-ish phenomenon, seems to have started around 2014 when Tumblr got tired of policing fandom and decided to try policing identity politics.

I feel like I'm completely fairly dismissing the history and context of the people who hear it as a slur in the context of trying to police the word. For one thing, all words you can use as that kind of self-identifier have been used as slurs. For another, queer does indeed have a broadly shared positive context - from "We're here, we're queer, get used to it," to ubiquitous use in academics alongside the LGBT type acronyms. Not universal, no, but nothing is.
 
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I'm certainly not gonna say your mileage can't vary, but I see over and over people on Tumblr etc making some commentary on why they like to identify themselves as queer, and getting younger folks replying to say "Don't you know queer is a slur and you shouldn't use it on people who aren't comfortable with being called a slur." And OP is left going "I literally.. was saying I like to use it.. on myself... Do you really feel the need to come in here and tell me my chosen self-identification is a slur?"

It's a new-ish phenomenon, seems to have started around 2014 when Tumblr got tired of policing fandom and decided to try policing identity politics.

I feel like I'm completely fairly dismissing the history and context of the people who hear it as a slur in the context of trying to police the word. For one thing, all words you can use as that kind of self-identifier have been used as slurs. For another, queer does indeed have a broadly shared positive context - from "We're here, we're queer, get used to it," to ubiquitous use in academics alongside the LGBT type acronyms. Not universal, no, but nothing is.

Yeah, treating interactions on Tumblr as representative of anything is a terrible, horrible, awful idea. I refuse to, lest I become an alt-right TERF because it is so full of absolute nonsense. You might call it "policing", but I would call it disagreeing in the strategy or practice of "reclaiming" or nebulous meta-umbrella terms. There are people who "reclaim" faggot, tranny, etc. and a lot of people who disagree. There are people who debate if straight people can be queer. Arguing based on a "history" or "context" that you are assuming they are unaware of seems like a pointless detour in order to dismiss.
 
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I'm not saying BS on tumblr is representative of anything but tumblr, but on tumblr that is a thing and it seems to have started with TERFs taking advantage of young SJW types and been used to harass a lot of folks there that identify as queer/trans.

Do you really disagree that 'queer' has built up a pretty serious history and tradition of positive connotations probably second only to 'gay' as a word that's also traditionally an insult? The others you mention really don't compare.

Again, I only bring this up at all cause the TERF group in the OP had a "lesbian not queer" banner and I associate TERFs with bashing on people who like to identify as queer.
 
I'm not saying BS on tumblr is representative of anything but tumblr, but on tumblr that is a thing and it seems to have started with TERFs taking advantage of young SJW types and been used to harass a lot of folks there that identify as queer/trans.

Do you really disagree that 'queer' has built up a pretty serious history and tradition of positive connotations probably second only to 'gay' as a word that's also traditionally an insult? The others you mention really don't compare.

I'm saying people in disagreed with reclaiming "queer" as an umbrella term since people started doing it. I remember people debating it in the local LGBT club in real life a decade ago. The history of positive connotations is, again, not universal, and I still fail to see how that actually responds to the concerns of people who disagree with it.

I also disagree that TERFs have convinced a significant number of people on this, and I believe queer and other open labels are more popular among youth today, not less. I just searched Tumblr to test and virtually all the posts I'm seeing are in favor of identifying as queer, and the people who disagree are all saying "it's okay if you want to, but I don't like using the term myself". I saw one potential radfem, and even that post wasn't explicitly saying people couldn't use the term.

I would hazard a guess that the "call out" culture for problematic things on Tumblr and the like is painting a distorted picture of a distorted picture.

Again, I only bring this up at all cause the TERF group in the OP had a "lesbian not queer" banner and I associate TERFs with bashing on people who like to identify as queer.

I've never seen "bashing" in the wild, but I think this is like associating people who advocate for male victims of abuse with MRAs. Sure, lots of MRAs will raise the issue, but most people who care about male victims of abuse aren't MRAs.
 
Oh, yeah, sure, all of that is a fair appraisal. I think I overstated my case. I was certainly using unnecessary hyperbole.
 
Forgive me if I missed it, but has the term "TERF" been defined? I'd rather not go to urbandictionary.com while I'm at work...
 
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist

They seem to dislike all trans folk (from what I've heard and read), for opposite but expected reasons.

1) trans men are gender traitors
2) trans women are fakers barging into female only spaces
 
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The need to make up new acronyms every five minutes to universally group individual peoples different opinions is really beginning to get on my tits.
 
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist

They seem to dislike all trans folk (from what I've heard and read), for opposite but expected reasons.

1) trans men are gender traitors
2) trans women are fakers barging into female only spaces

However, it is often used widely by trans-activists to cover anyone who doesn't agree with the right to gender self-identification. This catches many feminists who are concerned about:
- whether gender self-identification will be abused
- the impact on general gender equality, especially such things as equal pay, if gender is seen as a matter of choice
 
However, it is often used widely by trans-activists to cover anyone who doesn't agree with the right to gender self-identification. This catches many feminists who are concerned about:
- whether gender self-identification will be abused
Which is the main largely - if not wholly - unfounded claim made by right-wingers. Talk about unholy alliances....
- the impact on general gender equality, especially such things as equal pay, if gender is seen as a matter of choice
Because obviously they don't want anything that can pull the rug from under their victimhood.
 
What has this to do with "the alt left" or "alt right"?
The need to group everyone comes from the uber left

You have so many acronyms and prefixes for different groups the left like to make up.

Dudes who can't get dates have to have one, certain lesbians, certain feminists, certain men's right's, certain trans etc etc etc

Cis for absolutely no reason

Of course when people get thrust into these made up groups by left people who insist on having there will be backlash
 
The need to group everyone comes from the uber left

You have so many acronyms and prefixes for different groups the left like to make up.

Dudes who can't get dates have to have one, certain lesbians, certain feminists, certain men's right's, certain trans etc etc etc

Cis for absolutely no reason

Of course when people get thrust into these made up groups by left people who insist on having there will be backlash

Still not understanding how this is a fault of the "left" and not a fault of all extremism, whether right, left, liberal and so on.
 

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