Swine Flu outbreak

timhau said:
And of the Mexicans who died of swine flu, how many could afford these when they fell ill?
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Are you saying you are an impoverished third world country inhabitant who cannot afford to not work for a day?

Or do you think we should all make note to include every potential situation when making a very general comment?
 
Darth Rotor said:
The better thread on this topic is in the Science forum. This forum's players are not doing a good job....

DR
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Well I'll have to copy my attempt at humor over to one of those threads. The assumption I wouldn't know about the human condition around the world made me want to post nasty, "Well duh!s". And that time waste always ends up in the dungeon.
 
skeptigirl said:
There is no way one can leave the house without being exposed if a virus were running rampant through the community. How do you decontaminate everything that your hands eventually touch or keep your hands out of your face with 100% compliance?

It is virtually impossible. If the virus survives long on surfaces (and in some studies flu virus does) you simply cannot keep all surfaces free of contamination.

I need a better plan.
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You do realise that the constant day to day contamination of our bodies is precisely why we aren't all dead right now, right? I mean, constant exposure is actually a good thing.

If anything an obsession with cleanliness is only going to put you at higher risk of fatal infection.
 
MattusMaximus said:
The swine flu isn't transmitted by eating pork - CDC link.
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Don't say that!

Even eating bacon can get you swine flu - in fact the more cured the meat, the less curable the disease!

(I have a pork share scam running and you'll ruin it.)

skeptigirl said:
No need, there's no benefit in that.

Here's my experience thinking about precautions yesterday and today:

Forget it, just get some Tamiflu and a thermometer.
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That is just what authorities are saying not to do. The concern is that if lots of people rush out and buy Tamiflu unnecessarily, it might run out if it's needed.

Get Tamiflu if you get influenza.
 
gumboot said:
You do realise that the constant day to day contamination of our bodies is precisely why we aren't all dead right now, right? I mean, constant exposure is actually a good thing.

If anything an obsession with cleanliness is only going to put you at higher risk of fatal infection.
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Surely you, Gumboot, know the difference between a single pathogen one should avoid and the gazillion other proteins one is exposed to daily?
 
The Atheist said:
...That is just what authorities are saying not to do. The concern is that if lots of people rush out and buy Tamiflu unnecessarily, it might run out if it's needed.

Get Tamiflu if you get influenza.
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I meant get Tamiflu to have on hand. The thermometer is to tell you when to take it. And frankly, if you have a source for the stuff that you can get it from after you get that fever, then no need to have your own supply.

But the strategic planning lacks a key element. How are you supposed to get the Tamiflu within 48 preferably 24 hours of your sudden onset of symptoms?

Anyone in any of your communities made any announcements about what to do if you get sick other than, "see your doctor?" Think every clinic is stocking Tamiflu? No. They're going to write you a prescription to take to the pharmacy. Great, now you've spread the virus at the clinic and the pharmacy. And with a fever >101, severe muscle aches, headache and sometimes vomiting, you are running around trying to get treatment.

For those people who are capable of managing the med themselves, get some and have it on hand. There is no a huge shortage of the stuff. They've been cranking it out since the bird flu appeared.

I've sent my son the thermometer and told him to call me if he gets a fever. In his case I can get the pills for him. But I live alone. I'm not leaving the house if I get sick if I can help it.
 
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skeptigirl said:
Surely you, Gumboot, know the difference between a single pathogen one should avoid and the gazillion other proteins one is exposed to daily?
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Yes but there's no way to only avoid contact with a single pathogen, and IMHO maintaining exposure in general is of greater benefit than the very low probability of being exposed to that one pathogen.

Obviously in specific cases where you know you either are, or have high probability of being exposed to that particular pathogen it's only sensible to take extra precautions.
 
skeptigirl said:
But the strategic planning lacks a key element. How are you supposed to get the Tamiflu within 48 preferably 24 hours of your sudden onset of symptoms?

Anyone in any of your communities made any announcements about what to do if you get sick other than, "see your doctor?" Think every clinic is stocking Tamiflu? No. They're going to write you a prescription to take to the pharmacy.
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I imagine it varies from place to place. Here Tamiflu is controlled by the government, and only issued in specific cases. Ministry of Health officials are directly involved in every single case and actively tracking people who have come in contact with people suspected of infection.
 
skeptigirl said:
Are you saying you are an impoverished third world country inhabitant who cannot afford to not work for a day?

Or do you think we should all make note to include every potential situation when making a very general comment?
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Neither, I'm just trying to get a hang of how bad this disease is. The fact that it killed working-age folks instead of old people and small children sounds bad, but could it be because in Mexico, many working-age people have to choose between straining themselves while sick and not getting paid?
 
Has anyone got links to any reliable data on the demographics of those who have died or suspected of having died from the virus?
 
gumboot said:
I think the main reason it isn't taken seriously is because so many people refer to the common cold as a "flu". I've had numerous arguments with people who were convinced they had influenza, but who quite clearly only had a cold.

Most people will never in their lives actually get infected with influenza, and if you do, you certainly know about it. It's a magnitude worse than "a really bad cold".
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Amen to that!! I had "Influenza A" about a dozen years ago, and I was as sick as I've ever been in my life! I ran a fever so high I saw hand-sized spiders walking around on the walls of my bedroom, and I coughed for weeks! My doctor ended up giving me a steroid inhaler later that year, because three months after I was still a bit "wheezy" from the damage I took. And I was young and healthy! Even with the anti-virals, I spent most of a week in bed. Nasty, nasty stuff, definitely not a cold.

I now get the flu shot every year, and make my family get it, too. You don't necessarily get full protection, but it's going to be at least some help for some strains of flu, and that's better than nothing. (It also, incidentally, reduces the chances of you having two strains at once, and having them swap genes while using you as the incubator. Flu vaccination *may* help prevent pandemic flu from developing.) But the biggest thing you can do to protect yourself from the flu is: Wash your hands. Frequently, thoroughly, and for long enough for the soap to work.

Those masks people wear aren't generally much good for protection if you are uninfected and around someone who is; but they do protect those around you if YOU are infected and don't know it yet. It contains your germs from getting out.

I wonder if the public health apparatus is checking whether there is a connection between herbal entertainment and flu cases in the US? It seems to me that someone who "has not been to Mexico" might well not mention that they buy their dope from someone who is importing it from there.

Just my thoughts, MK
 
Miss_Kitt said:
Amen to that!! I had "Influenza A" about a dozen years ago, and I was as sick as I've ever been in my life! I ran a fever so high I saw hand-sized spiders walking around on the walls of my bedroom, and I coughed for weeks! My doctor ended up giving me a steroid inhaler later that year, because three months after I was still a bit "wheezy" from the damage I took. And I was young and healthy! Even with the anti-virals, I spent most of a week in bed. Nasty, nasty stuff, definitely not a cold.
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Interestingly, one of the quarantined students here was interviewed on the news tonight and reported that all she had was a mild cough, which has passed in a matter of days. I'm predicting that the students from that school just picked up a cold off each other.
 
I hate using communal digital (or normal) pens -- it's as bad as using a common drinking glass. Yet I still get odd looks when I pull my own pen out of my pocket instead of using that germ-laden stilo that the counter person has slammed down on the receipt I must sign, forcing me to sluff it out of the way to use my own damn pen.
 
timhau said:
Neither, I'm just trying to get a hang of how bad this disease is. The fact that it killed working-age folks instead of old people and small children sounds bad, but could it be because in Mexico, many working-age people have to choose between straining themselves while sick and not getting paid?
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I don't want to sound mean, timhau. I'm sure that makes sense to you. But the fact is the death rate in Mexico is unusual and is not explained by such simple things as, they are poor unhealthy souls while we are healthy with good medical care.

The qualified assessment, that is the assessment coming from the people who know what they are talking about, is there is insufficient data to explain the unusual deaths in Mexico, but the deaths do at the moment indeed appear unusual. There are many possible reasons why. When we get more data, we'll have a better picture of what is going on.

It always amazes me how ignorant some people think the CDC and WHO must be not to be able to figure out such simple things. The truth is there are very qualified investigators looking at the situation. We will have the answers, but only after we see a bit more of what happens.
 
alfaniner said:
I hate using communal digital (or normal) pens -- it's as bad as using a common drinking glass. Yet I still get odd looks when I pull my own pen out of my pocket instead of using that germ-laden stilo that the counter person has slammed down on the receipt I must sign, forcing me to sluff it out of the way to use my own damn pen.
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I will sometimes have my pen in my hand. No one thinks it's odd if you have your pen before the clerk finds one to hand you. But you can't use a pen on those digi-signature pads.

I suppose it's no worse than the coins they hand you.

So that leaves the alcohol hand rub.
 
gumboot said:
Interestingly, one of the quarantined students here was interviewed on the news tonight and reported that all she had was a mild cough, which has passed in a matter of days. I'm predicting that the students from that school just picked up a cold off each other.
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A mild cough is definitely not a symptom that sounds like flu.

It's too bad they are going overkill on people who just happen to be sick and have come from Mexico. It will reinforce the false perception the public already has that the flu is the same as an average cold.
 
Miss_Kitt said:
Amen to that!! I had "Influenza A" about a dozen years ago, and I was as sick as I've ever been in my life! I ran a fever so high I saw hand-sized spiders walking around on the walls of my bedroom, and I coughed for weeks! My doctor ended up giving me a steroid inhaler later that year, because three months after I was still a bit "wheezy" from the damage I took. And I was young and healthy! Even with the anti-virals, I spent most of a week in bed. Nasty, nasty stuff, definitely not a cold.
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Now that sounds like the actual flu. (see above post for context.)

Miss_Kitt said:
Those masks people wear aren't generally much good for protection if you are uninfected and around someone who is; but they do protect those around you if YOU are infected and don't know it yet. It contains your germs from getting out.
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Actually, there is evidence most flu is droplet spread. The masks, even just surgical masks do provide some protection especially if they keep people from putting contaminated hands in their mouth.

Miss_Kitt said:
I wonder if the public health apparatus is checking whether there is a connection between herbal entertainment and flu cases in the US? It seems to me that someone who "has not been to Mexico" might well not mention that they buy their dope from someone who is importing it from there.

Just my thoughts, MK
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That's an interesting thought.
 
Rika said:
Skeptigirl: Ur.. I know I can't take a day off if I get sick. Your advise about the thermometer is well recieved though.
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Do you work around a lot of people, or can you stay away from others if you have to work?

Even when people go to work with mild colds because staying home isn't always an option, they could limit the spread to coworkers with some common measures. I wear a face mask when I work if I have mild symptoms or a lingering cough after recovering from something. But it's easy for me because I only need to wear it when I am seeing a patient. They usually appreciate it, rather than being bothered by it.
 
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