Should smoking be banned in NYC parks?

[Foolmewunz]

People cough up and spit phlem on the street, or big snot rocks on the street quite frequently in my experience. China has such a big problem that they've signs saying "please don't spit".

Things are improving greatly in that regard. It's now pretty much the uneducated and the elderly who still insist on spitting. They've been working in the Chinese "countries" (China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore) to get them away from the old Chinese TM belief that it was imperative to your health that you spit out phlegm.

In many places "spitting" is now included in a list of no-nos like on the NYC subway, where you'll see signs that say something like "No smoking, spitting, eating, drinking, radio playing" or similar. Remember that in America there were spitoons in pubs/saloons up until the early 20th century.

 

[Nosi]

You wouldn't know that looking around where I live in Arizona.

Out here is the old west, and you need watch your step.

 

[Ambrosia]

I also can't see any real, useful benefit for anybody in smoking.

Are there any real useful benefits for anybody drinking alcohol?

Are you really advocating prohibition? You'd create a black market for tobacco, and people would still continue to smoke.

Just like people continued to drink when alcohol was illegal, and they continue to use other controlled drugs.

 

[Foolmewunz]

You wouldn't know that looking around where I live in Arizona.

Out here is the old west, and you need watch your step.

Well, a lot of States in the USA are losing some of your gun nuts to New Hampshire because they are concerned that the States will cave in and limit their carry rights and they believe they can have more individual freedom in NH. Maybe Chinese Spitters have a Saliva on the Land program going and they're all migrating to AZ because the right to wilful expectoration is being abused by the oppressive Chinese regime?
(I'm assuming that you mean that it's Chinese immigrants doing this?)

 

[Foolmewunz]

Are there any real useful benefits for anybody drinking alcohol?
<snip>

Does the word "sex" ring a bell?

 

[Nosi]

Does the word "sex" ring a bell?

One problem with alcohol and sex, at least for men, is that too much alcohol can leave something unable to...um...perform properly!

 

[microdot]

I also can't see any real, useful benefit for anybody in smoking.

Are there any real useful benefits for anybody drinking alcohol?

Are you really advocating prohibition? You'd create a black market for tobacco, and people would still continue to smoke.

Just like people continued to drink when alcohol was illegal, and they continue to use other controlled drugs.

I believe that a number of studies have suggested a link between moderate alcohol consumption and reduced risk of heart attack.

http://beercocktailsspirits.suite101.com/article.cfm/does_alcohol_reduce_risk_of_heart_attack

I'm more in favour of a gradual phasing out, something which I believe is happening in the UK, rather than instant prohibition.

I believe phasing out will lead to a natural decline in demand and also allow the government to mitigate any negative effects on income from taxation.

I'd be interested to know if you can see any real, useful benefits of smoking

 

[BlackKat]

BTW, smoking is banned on the beaches here in Chicago. It wasn't due to secondhand smoke though, but because smokers think the world is their ashtray and just flick their butts on the sand and in the water.

Seriously smokers, what's up with that? What makes you think this is OK? Most of you wouldn't throw your bag of fast food trash out the car window or on the sidewalk, but you all (don't lie now) throw your butts any old place with nary a thought.

For starters I'd like to state that I think it should be a capital offense to NOT smoke. When car exhaust smells like flowers and cures cancer you have a right to complain about second hand smoke. Until that day...

While I would never litter in any manner with trash I do make an exception with cigarette butts. First off there is a complete absence of public ashtrays on city streets. If there were such things I, and most smokers likely, would gladly use them instead of tossing our butts on the sidewalk or in the gutter.

There are barely any public trash cans in my city but even so would one use such disposal containers for cigarette butts you can just about guarantee numerous trash can fires. You need to provide ashtrays because even after stepping on a butt it can still be hot enough or still contain embers which would ignite other trash.

The few buildings that do have ashtrays strategically placed by their doors are much appreciated, and such do get my use.

 

[microdot]

For starters I'd like to state that I think it should be a capital offense to NOT smoke. When car exhaust smells like flowers and cures cancer you have a right to complain about second hand smoke. Until that day...

Told you so

Any time a smoking ban is on the cards people invariably seem to trot out the argument that the pollution from smoking is negligible when compared to pollution from motor vehicles.

I'm inclined to believe that is a valid argument.

However!

If motor vehicles were banned tomorrow I imagine that the effect on the world economy would be massive.

If smoking was banned tomorrow I believe the effect on the world economy would be significantly less.

I realise that governments would lose a source of income from taxation.

In the UK I would hazard a guess that the loss of taxation would be more or less balanced out by the reduction in costs to the NHS of caring for those suffering the very serious ill effects that arise from smoking.

Also healthier people = more work days = more income tax paid to the government.

Or am I being too simplistic?

ETA - I also can't see any real, useful benefit for anybody in smoking.

 

[BlackKat]

Told you so

But I bet you didn't expect someone would think non-smokers should be under a fascist regime where it's illegal not to smoke punishable by death did you?

 

[truethat]

You know what is sad about this legislation of smoking, most smokers that used to go outside and smoke in order to keep it away from their kids, are now smoking at home to be left in peace. Count down to the rise in second hand smoking cancer cases. 5 4 3...

 

[microdot]

But I bet you didn't expect someone would think non-smokers should be under a fascist regime where it's illegal not to smoke punishable by death did you?

I didn't predict it but it doesn't surprise me

 

[Ambrosia]

Does the word "sex" ring a bell?

You mean the whole "Beer, helping ugly people have sex" line of reasoning?

Howabout "BeerAlcohol, helping to raise the teenpregnancy statistics"

or howabout "Alcohol, helping our population to increase"

 

[Ambrosia]

I believe that a number of studies have suggested a link between moderate alcohol consumption and reduced risk of heart attack.

I'd be interested to know if you can see any real, useful benefits of smoking

That depends what you are smoking doesn't it. While there are no health benefits to smoking tobacco and plenty of health and economic detriments, given that many people choose freely to smoke at all there must be some perceived benefits to doing so.

Smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol, injecting heroin, smoking dope, dropping acid, snorting cocaine, drinking mushroom tea, drinking redbull/espresso/green tea, smoking crack, dropping ecstacy, <insert your preferred method of ingestion for your preferred intoxicant here>, should all be legal regulated and taxed appropriately for the same reason.

All these things in moderation can have useful, positive, beneficial effects. It should not be the business of the legislature what I do to myself provided that I do not harm anyone else.

All prohibition does is create black markets and provide avenues for organised crime to make easy money.

I don't think that smoking should be banned in NYC parks. I do think that litterbugs should be punished severely for littering.

 

[Thunder]

i hate cigarette smoke. its disgusting. i don't like walking through clouds of it. i wish people would stop smoking.

but in the great outdoors of NYC Parks, American citizens should have the right to smoke..since smoking is legal in the USA.

Ban it in playgrounds? sure why not.

 

[microdot]

That depends what you are smoking doesn't it. While there are no health benefits to smoking tobacco and plenty of health and economic detriments, given that many people choose freely to smoke at all there must be some perceived benefits to doing so.

OK - maybe you can suggest what some of those benefits might be?

 

[applecorped]

I field strip then place butt in pocket!

As do I but it doesn't sound as convincing when you are trying to use a giant brush label all smokers in general.

 

[Ambrosia]

OK - maybe you can suggest what some of those benefits might be?

Why?

People choose freely to smoke. They must therefore want to smoke. Why should any government anywhere deprive them of smoking?

Lets say for the sake of argument there are absolutely zero benefits whatsoever to smoking. What now? Just because you don't agree with an activity, or can't see a point to it, why should you be allowed to dictate to others how to live their lives?

If by smoking I am causing a problem in NYC parks to other peoples enjoyment of the park, like for example throwing my cigarette ends on the floor. Do something to penalise the activity that effects others. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[oldhat]

Why?

People choose freely to smoke. They must therefore want to smoke. Why should any government anywhere deprive them of smoking?

Lets say for the sake of argument there are absolutely zero benefits whatsoever to smoking. What now? Just because you don't agree with an activity, or can't see a point to it, why should you be allowed to dictate to others how to live their lives?

Because it causes cancer, lung and heart disease that will eventually be paid for by society through higher insurance premiums, Medicare costs and use of scarce medical resources like doctors and x-ray machines. It also costs society in terms of lost work productivity, air pollution and literally tons of cigarette butt litter on the streets, in parks and in beaches.

 

[Ambrosia]

Because it causes cancer, lung and heart disease that will eventually be paid for by society through higher insurance premiums, Medicare costs and use of scarce medical resources like doctors and x-ray machines.

In the UK the govt. gleans something like £9bn a year in tax revenue from smokers. It's estimated that smoking related health issues cost the NHS £3bn a year. Lets be generous and suggest that the money made from smoking taxes offsets the costs to the taxpayer of smoking. If where you live the costs of smokers are not paid by smoking related tax, then increase that tax.

... tons of cigarette butt litter on the streets, in parks and in beaches.

So make littering cigarette butts in parks and beaches and streets and elsewhere a socially unacceptable activity. Introduce large(r) fines for littering, and then enforce those laws.

Thats a litter issue, not a smoking issue.