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Sanjay Gupta?

I think an important skeptical principle is to judge people primarily by what they say and do rather than by what others say they have said and done.

That's not to say one should ignore what others say about a person. People who are familiar with a person's words and deeds are worth listening to, and may be helpful in describing those words and deeds and pointing us to primary sources where we can verify this for ourselves.

But it is too easy for people to be misled by blindly accepting one person's version of what another supposedly has said or done. Talk radio listeners, for instance, are routinely misled in this fashion.

While I hold James Randi in much higher regard than I hold, say, Rush Limbaugh, I think it's important to apply that principle not simply to people one is inclined to be suspicious of but also to people one is inclined to trust. So before we start talking too confidently about what Sanjay Gupta believes about facilitated communication, it would be good to refer to things Gupta has actually said or written about the subject.


This is from the CNN web site, though not explicitly attributed to Gupta:

When first introduced, it was widely hailed as a breakthrough that allowed large numbers of non-verbal people to communicate effectively. However, FC became highly controversial when numerous studies showed that often facilitators were influencing their subjects' typing by guiding their responses, even prompting the American Psychological Association to adopt the position in 1994 that "facilitated communication is a controversial and unproved communicative procedure with no scientifically demonstrated support for its efficacy."

That page also includes the link to a video entitled "CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta examines the controversy over facilitated communication". I have not watched it because it requires a subscription, but it hardly makes him sound like a "strong advocate".
 
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The perfect seems, here, to have become the enemy of the good.

The subject is controversial, but I cannot see it as something that will greatly influence his performance in other ways. We have had Surgeons General who entertained whackier ideas, some of which spilled over into public policy.
 
The perfect seems, here, to have become the enemy of the good.

The subject is controversial, but I cannot see it as something that will greatly influence his performance in other ways. We have had Surgeons General who entertained whackier ideas, some of which spilled over into public policy.


I agree with your general sentiment. But again, on skeptical principle, I have to question concluding that Gupta is a supporter of facilitated communication before any examples have been provided (in this thread) of his having spoken or acted in support of it.

He may very well be. There may be passages in the transcript of "CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta examines the controversy over facilitated communication". or the transcript of some other CNN program, which will show him as such. But until someone quotes those passages (or, at the very least, gives us their word they personally listened to that program, are aware of its contents, and gives us their description of what they remember being said) then it is premature to either condemn or condone Gupta's views.

Facilitated communication is a somewhat controversial technique, so its supporters are presumably eager to find any evidence of support they can to bolster their public image. If Gupta has made public utterances in support of facilitated communication, I would expect pro-FC sites to be posting these quotes and pro-FC speakers to be touting them. If Gupta has indeed made such statements, could someone please post some of them in this thread?
 
If Gupta has indeed made such statements, could someone please post some of them in this thread?


Out of curiosity, I just finished a second attempt of my own to track down such statements. The easiest way to do this would be to play the CNN video, "CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta examines the controversy over facilitated communication", but like gdnp I am unable to do so. So I tried using the Google instead. My assumption remains that if Gupta has indeed made statements significantly supportive of FC that someone should have quoted them some time somewhere.

First I checked Daily Kos, since there have been a number of diaries about Gupta there this week and many people there are critical of the appointment. A search of diaries and stories about Gupta turned up a couple dozen. I clicked on 8 which seemed most promising; from a quick read, I could see nothing in any of these diaries about FC.

But the search brought up only the diaries, not the comments. On the chance there was something significant in the comments, I did a Google search for site:dailykos.com "facilitated communication". Result: 12 hits, none relevant to Gupta.

Second: I did a site search for Huffington Post. This turned up two relevant items: one in the January 6 post "Sanjay Gupta: Surgeon General?" and once in the January 9 post "Conyers: Obama Should Not Nominate Sanjay Gupta".

In both of these, the mention of FC occurs in the comments rather than in the main posting. The January 6 comment by sciencedude is written in an authoritative tone:
"Dr. Gupta's strong advocacy of the discredited technique "facilitated communication" (FC) has given false credibility to fakes and charlatans who prey on the desperate parents of children with autism."​
But no evidence other than confident assertion is provided to back up this statement.

Ah, but the January 9 comment section is more helpful. Sciencedude posts again, as does ataraktos -- and both of them provide the source for their assertions. Unfortunately that doesn't do us much good -- because both of them got their idea that Gupta is an FC supporter from us. The source sciencedude cites in support of his belief that Gupta is an FC supporter is Randi's November 9th item, and the source ataraktos cites is Jeff Wagg's January 8 item. So the support for this belief seems to go in circles.

I did one more search: a generalized Google search of "facilitated communication" "Sanjay Gupta". That comes up with 291 hits, more than I intend to wade through, but the first two are the already-checked HuffPost, the next two are randi.org (Randi's Swift commentary, and this thread!), and a check of half a dozen more of the first page hits turned up lots of confident rhetoric but not much else.

Edited to add: okay, I did finally find something!

1. From Hellboundallee, May 2006:

On Feb. 25, 2005, CNN aired a segment about FC reported by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Gupta asks an FC detractor, "There are some extraordinary examples of people who seem to have benefited tremendously from facilitated communication. How do you explain that?"

The so-called expert responded, "No, I can’t explain that."


2. From the Autism in New Brunswick blog:

Many parents of children diagnosed with Autism Disorder were surprised that Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and CNN, chose Amanda Baggs to feature as an example of the life of a "low functioning" autistic person. Ms Baggs has spent her life on the internet detailing her childhood and teen years which she spent, by her words, diagnosed with schizophrenia (about which she often lectured via internet news groups with the certainty that she now expresses about autism), attended school for gifted students, started college, conversed orally with educators and medical personnel, and had at least one boy friend. She is a very capable writer with an excellent command of language and a very sharp intellect. Few parents of severely autistic or low functioning autistic children would recognize their children, or their children's autism, in the life of Ms Baggs.

Then, with millions of autistic persons in the world, some of whom live their lives in the residential and institutional care of others, some with little or no ability to communicate, orally, by means of technology, or otherwise, Dr Gupta and CNN decided to further illustrate the world of autism by interviewing ... yup ... Amanda Baggs. At that point many parents struggling to achieve a better life for their autistic children simply wrote off Dr. Gupta as a credible reporter on the realities of autism.


3. Most directly to the point, from Gupta's own blog, is an entry from October 2007, "Giving autism a voice". Here's a relevant excerpt:

... It's called facilitated communication and it's been used for some people with autism since the early 1990s. The method involves a facilitator who sits with a person with autism and holds his or her hand, wrist, arm or even simply touches a shoulder in order to help them type with a single digit. The theory is that the presence of a facilitator can help the person focus and target his or her neuromuscular abilities to type on the keyboard. It's controversial because critics say that the facilitator can be the one manipulating the typing rather than the autistic person.

I just returned from the "Autism National Committee" annual meeting in Edmonton, Canada. I saw many people using facilitated communication, or FC, effectively in various ways. In some cases, I was a bit more skeptical. For sure, it is amazing to hear the thoughts of people whose outward appearance (including no eye contact, repetitive words and physical movement) can seem vacant or nonsensical to most of society. But FC was just one part of the conference. People who fall into all categories of the autism spectrum disorders arrived from all over North America to listen and learn from other people with autism. I followed up with an autistic woman named Amanda Baggs, whom we profiled earlier this year. Amanda communicates with a keyboard without a facilitator...


From what I can see, the rap on Gupta isn't really that he's a full-fledged supporter of facilitated communication, as various blog commenters seem to be claiming; it's that he hasn't been a strong enough opponent of it. Given how hard it is to get skepticism a fair hearing on almost any tv program, I don't think that's a particularly strong criticism. Unless people can come up with stronger examples of Gupta supporting FC, I'm inclined to consider that praise by faint damnation.
 
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I am not very impressed with Conyers' complaints about Gupta's lack of leadership and management experience.

In large part, he will be there to sell some new ideas to the nation. Obama needs a spokesman to whom people will pay attention. Gupta's ability to be charming and engaging will not harm him a bit in this task.


That he was taken to task on his comments about Michael Moore and then actually apologizes for what he got wrong is a refreshing change from the arrogance of some of W's appointees.

Bottom line, the man is bright and ethical.
 
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Better Obama chose Sanja from American Idol. But as long as Obama is going for TV personalities for his administration consider:

Martha Stewart for Secretary of Interior?
Dick LeBeau for Secretary of Defense
Robyn Moore for Secretary of Labor

S.G. + facilitated communication = woo of the woo kind

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/379-sanjay-gupta-unfit.html

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/145-swift-january-11-2008.html#i1

Sorry, we're still waiting for the evidence that Gupta is a strong advocate of facilitated communication. So far there isn't much but a few accusations. Jeff Wagg quotes Jim Todd (whoever that is) and I'm supposed to run out and sharpen my pitchfork? I don't think so.

The real skeptics will wait for more data before they make a judgment.
 
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That's because the right are typically not that big into critical thinking. ;)

Anyway, from what I read from this thread, Gupta, at the very least, is open to FC, which seems to suggest that he isn't real big on critical thinking, himself.
 
Liberal folks Olbermann, Krugman, Conyers, Moore, The Nation, chafe at Gupta being S.G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnk3G-skRjM

As it was expected, it will be the far left, not the right, that gives Obama trouble during his administration.

Expected by whom? BAC was raving for the past 6 months that Obama was a closet communist.

So Conyers, who isn't even in the Senate, doesn't like him because he argued with Michael Moore over single payer health care? This is opposition? :rolleyes:

And as a note, I see that no one has been able to come up with quotes that Gupta has shown more than wishy-washy support for facilitated communication.
 
That's because the right are typically not that big into critical thinking. ;)

Anyway, from what I read from this thread, Gupta, at the very least, is open to FC, which seems to suggest that he isn't real big on critical thinking, himself.


If K.O. and Moore are examples of liberal critical thinkers then Rosie O'Donnell must be the Bertrand Russell of the left.
 
Expected by whom? BAC was raving for the past 6 months that Obama was a closet communist.

So Conyers, who isn't even in the Senate, doesn't like him because he argued with Michael Moore over single payer health care? This is opposition? :rolleyes:

And as a note, I see that no one has been able to come up with quotes that Gupta has shown more than wishy-washy support for facilitated communication.

While facilitated communication is unadulterated woo, are acupuncture and transcendental meditation also woo? If they are, S.G. is all in.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/30/hcsg.01.html

Would you want your neurosurgeon to be "wishy-washy" on matters of medicine?

Still S.G. for S.G. is damn catchy.
 
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While facilitated communication is unadulterated woo, are acupuncture and transcendental meditation also woo? If they are, S.G. is all in.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0706/30/hcsg.01.html

Would you want your neurosurgeon to be "wishy-washy" on matters of medicine?

Still S.G. for S.G. is damn catchy.

Uh, Deepak Chopra is all in. Not so sure about Gupta. The stuff they discussed was pretty innocuous. Meditation by schoolchildren improving self esteem and decreasing aggression. Acupuncture or meditation relieving stress so women ovulate. People living longer after heart attacks is someone calls up once a week and says "we care about you".

Thus far alternative medicine has not really penetrated much into my specialty, radiology. So I can't really say if it's all woo or mostly woo.
 
If K.O. and Moore are examples of liberal critical thinkers then Rosie O'Donnell must be the Bertrand Russell of the left.


Oh, I was joshin' ya. But I don't I don't consider media pundits as valid arbiters of any parties policies. Otherwise, I would have mentioned O'Reilly and Limbaugh.
 
I read a quip somewhere, long ago, to the effect that medicine is largely the art of entertaining the patient while nature works a cure. In some cases, this is true. Psycho-somatic illnesses definitely respond to just about any kind of attention. It's called the placebo effect. To this extent, meditation and accupuncture are far less wooish than Cicero seems to think. It will not cure cancer and infectious disease, but it is a great stress reliever. Stress is an aggravating factor in any ailment. Even FC may help at least as far as relieving family members' feelings of helplessness. To condemn these practices across the board seems to me less scepticism than utter conservatism, which can be stifling to valid research along with the woo.

As for the single-payer debate, that is more in Tom Daschle's bailiwick. The Surgeon General is there to examine how patients are treated and what got them sick in the first place. How to pay for it is another matter entirely. That is up to the Secretary.
 

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