"Randi" Get a Brain

[Mid]

Re: Physical threats to JREF staff ?

This touches on a topic I've been wondering about recently.

Given the number of what appear to be really mentally ill psychos involved in woowoo, does the JREF take any special measures to protect its staff ?

Given the ease with which Oliver Mills apparently had in gaining access to the JREF, it would seem that it's rather easy. Has any JREF staff member ever been physically confronted by any of these woowoo creatures ? I'd imagine poor Kramer to be one of the ones most likely to come up against them - I'm just hoping Kramer is a big guy able to hold his own.

I would have thought that a completely random assault is fairly unlikely as most if not all dealings with the woos would be via phone or email. So if you annoy a woo over the phone or by email they would still have to actually get to the JREF and most would have calmed down long before they bought the plane tickets to get there. A more serious problem would be if they harboured a long term grudge, but I’m hoping the JREF has contingency plans for this.

On a related matter some of the actual challenge applicants seem somewhat unhinged and there is a possibility of them coming into contact with preliminary challenge testers. This I feel could be a greater problem especially after they fail the test; does the JREF provide the testers with advice/guidance of how to react if an applicant turns nasty?

 

[Ashles]

Re: Re: Physical threats to JREF staff ?

A thought out of left field:

I wonder how well just using their "woo-ness" against them would work. So many of these guys claim Randi et. al. are evil and powerful psychics and are already very impressionable and open to suggetsion. Do you think you could simply claim you're using "dark magic" to stop them? "Shalakzam! I've cursed your baseball bat! Anyone touching it will get a horrible itching rash!" "I'm penetrating your mind with my psychic powers... you must obey. Your fists are very heavy and slow..." "I have the secret ORMES dust transmuted into diatomic poison through fluidics here in my hand. If I throw it at you, you'll go blind!"

Of course, doing this would "validate" all kinds of nutso beliefs on their part. But it also might be a quick way to humanely defuse a situation...

I can't see any way that would work in reality.

To take a horrible example - in England at the moment there are some examples of adults in the African Community exorcising (basically torturing) children believing them to be Witches or posessed. I notice their beliefs don't appear to prevent them kidnapping and torturing these children.

Beliefs will be totally forgotten if you suddenly wish to perform violence against someone - it's art of our psyche at a much deeper level than these belief systems.

And for some people acting in exactlythe way that they have convinced themselves that you would may only exacerbate the situation. If someone travels all the way to Randi's headquarters convinced he is evil and intending to do him harm, how do you think they'll react if he starts acting like he's casting a spell?

The best way to defuse such a situation is, well, to ensure it doesn't happen in the first place.

 

[delphi_ote]

Re: Re: Re: Physical threats to JREF staff ?

I can't see any way that would work in reality.

Forgive me for joking around about that maybe more immediately than I should have. Seriously, if any of these people represent a plausible physical threat, I think JREF should immediately contact the police. My tongue was mostly in my cheek when writing my earlier post, but I don't think this is TOTALLY implausible.

Obviously you're not going to stop a homicidal stalker maniac by pretending to cast a spell, but if a particularly wacky and gullible woo (who was a known quantity) started to get upset and "act out," it would amuse me to watch someone scare them away and defuse the situation with the nut's own ridiculous beliefs. I'm not sure if GodofJacob falls into that category or not. So far, he just seems like an annoying lunatic to me.

In the same vein: scaring off a superstious gullible fundamentalist Christian who tried to convert me by repeating "I AM SATAN" in a scary voice with wide open eyes . It worked for me in highschool. Was it childish? Yea. Did it confirm their suspicions about me? Yea. But it made them go away and amused me.

Am I seriously advocating this? No. JREF should conduct itself much more professionally than I did in as a teenager and take plausible threats seriously. Would I forgive Kramer or Randi if they messed with the occational obnoxious crank? Heck yea!

 

[LFTKBS]

GodofJacob, if you're reading this, thanks for getting out. Also I believe that you can live without eating or drinking so please continue to test yourself to the very limits of your abilities. Good luck.

 

[EGarrett]

I may be the only person, but I find stuff like this extremely amusing.

"ORMUS" might be the stupidest name for a paranormal belief that I've ever heard.

It sounds like the name of someone's drunken friend who always wants a ride home.

Plus, you already know that people who believe this type of thing are incredibly gullible and soft-minded, so why not play with them a little bit? Obviously, Randi shouldn't because it's counter-productive...but I see no reason why some of us on the forum can wind them up a little after it's clear they have no connection reality.

 

[Roadtoad]

Just read the update on this one. Thanks, Darat, for all you do.

Sorry, I don't see any point in "playing" with someone who's a genuine nut case. Nor do I feel generous enough to engage one in conversation. There's not much difference between this loony and Hellcat, or any number of other self-absorbed kooks that seem to think they're owed an audience.

 

[clarsct]

I thought 'Ormus' was a Diablo 2 character. Isn't that some sort of copyright breach?

 

[Ashles]

Plus, you already know that people who believe this type of thing are incredibly gullible and soft-minded, so why not play with them a little bit? Obviously, Randi shouldn't because it's counter-productive...but I see no reason why some of us on the forum can wind them up a little after it's clear they have no connection reality.

If someone is a troll, or is grinding some form of axe or merely deluded then fair enough.

If someone seems to be genuinely mentally ill then no. Just recommend they seek help.

But I've only really seen that once so far on these threads (I forget the guy's name but he was trying to apply for the challenge).

 

[LW]

I didn't read the whole thread so pardon me if someone mentioned this before.

I believe that the original poster is referring to the "phenomenon" of monoatomic elements where people claim that by treating precious metals with enough energy the bonds that hold the atoms together are broken and a lot of mysterious stuff happens. For example, according to the link above it would lose 46% of its weight. The author of the above text has actually given three completely contradictionary explanations (in the book Secrets of the Lost Ark) for this behavior. It is caused by:

1) supraconductive levitation that reduces the apparent weight;

2) the missing 46% is "transformed into pure light" [can you say: "BOOM!"]; and

3) the missing 46% moves to a different dimension.

The book gave me the impression that the author is fully behind each of these three explanations.

The google reveals that there are several firms who sell this "monoatomic gold" to be used as health supplement. It is certainly a nice form of gold to sell: it doesn't look like gold, it doesn't weigh as much as gold, and the ordinary laboratory tests can't show that it is gold. All because of the ORME properties. But sure it is gold, the good fellows who sell it wouldn't lie about it, would they?

 

[Roadtoad]

I thought 'Ormus' was a Diablo 2 character. Isn't that some sort of copyright breach?

You might want to mention that to the Scientologists. Werner Erhardt's was originally a Scientology concept.

 

[LostAngeles]

I thought 'Ormus' was a Diablo 2 character. Isn't that some sort of copyright breach?

No, Ormus is the eeevil, ancient organization from Xenosaga.

 

[KRAMER]

Re: Physical threats to JREF staff ?

...I'd imagine poor Kramer to be one of the ones most likely to come up against them - I'm just hoping Kramer is a big guy able to hold his own.

5'9" - 150lbs - little round glasses - big round target sign right over the center of my chest.

Bring it on.

 

[LostAngeles]

Re: Re: Physical threats to JREF staff ?

5'9" - 150lbs - little round glasses - big round target sign right over the center of my chest.

Bring it on.

5'3.5" - 138 - I'll wear my Coke bottle lens glasses.

I'll see you on the playground at 3PM. No bringing Mommy to kiss booboos away either. S'cheating.

 

[Ducky]

Re: Re: Physical threats to JREF staff ?

5'9" - 150lbs - little round glasses - big round target sign right over the center of my chest.

Bring it on.

Yet another example of why Kramer is a hero of mine...

 

[Roadtoad]

6'0". 250. Bug burner specs, but I pack a winch bar.

I got yer back, Kramer.

 

[Jeff Corey]

.. Werner Erhardt's was originally a Scientology concept.

\\it\
Maybe, but when a friend "got It" with Jack Rosenberg -Werner Erhardt-it had nothing to do with thetans or getting'clear' of their evil influences.
It was a pyramid scheme, whereby the mark who spent the $250 could get $50 back for every other mark she brought into the fold.

 

[Roadtoad]

\\it\
Maybe, but when a friend "got It" with Jack Rosenberg -Werner Erhardt-it had nothing to do with thetans or getting'clear' of their evil influences.
It was a pyramid scheme, whereby the mark who spent the $250 could get $50 back for every other mark she brought into the fold.

So I read. I've got a book about the collapse of est. Pretty scary stuff. Especially the part about how Erhardt/Rosenberg actually said that his molestation of his daughter was part of a "bonding" experience.

 

[bruto]

"... because we dont have the technology to detect what is undectable to the human eyes and mind..."

So now I'm really curious, how do YOU detect it? It seems like a pretty rocky start.

 

[LostAngeles]

"... because we dont have the technology to detect what is undectable to the human eyes and mind..."

So now I'm really curious, how do YOU detect it? It seems like a pretty rocky start.

Wait a damn minute, yes we do.

We can detect X-rays, infrared, ultraviolet, radio waves, and any other goodies outside the spectrum of visible light. We can't see them, but we've built machines to do so.

We can detect sub-atomic particles. What was the particle that one physicist commented, "Nobody ordered this?" Was that the muon? Because we totally detected that too.

I'm not yelling at you bruto, I know you were quoting someone else. I just happened upon that and realized suddenly that it was DUM.

 

[bruto]

Wait a damn minute, yes we do.

We can detect X-rays, infrared, ultraviolet, radio waves, and any other goodies outside the spectrum of visible light. We can't see them, but we've built machines to do so.

We can detect sub-atomic particles. What was the particle that one physicist commented, "Nobody ordered this?" Was that the muon? Because we totally detected that too.

I'm not yelling at you bruto, I know you were quoting someone else. I just happened upon that and realized suddenly that it was DUM.

Quite.