Question about the supernatural act

[Earthborn]

Wow... what an incredible low life effort to misrepresent and put into questionable shade what I do as hypnotheratpist.

Aster, please remember that among skeptics there is considerable doubt that hypnosis even is a real phenomenon, and not just people wanting to play along with a hypnotist. The more you will stress your credentials as a hypnotherapist, the more respect you will loose.

I also know there are more hypnotherapists who practice without any education or certification than those who do.

Isn't it also true that there are a lot of people educating and certifying hypnotherapists without ever having to show any real knowledge of psychology?

But I tell you this: a well trained and certified hypnotherapist does NOT use suggestive questioning techniques

I find that hard to believe. Psychological experiments have shown time and time again that it is incredibly hard to ask questions that do not have some sort of suggestion in them. Only very recently have psychologists devised methods of interrogation that limit the amount of influence the interrogator has on the person being question in order to get reliable witness testimonies. If you think about it, it is fairly obvious that questions tend to have suggestions in them: after all people need to know what kind of answer is expected of them when they are being questioned.

And you are telling us now that you have somehow managed to solve this fundamental problem of psychology? You will have to explain how.

I use methods of natural relaxation comparable to meditation techniques in order to resurface suppressed memories.

Among skeptics there is considerable doubt that people even can repress memories, let alone use hypnosis to get them back. Unless you provide extraordinary evidence, you have nothing to gain from telling people here that you do this for a living, only respect to loose.

You should expect little respect especially from the United States, where there have been several high profile cases where educated and certified hypnotherapists, who claimed just like you that they could recover repressed memories, but where those memories later turned out to be false.

It is the client who validates the therapeutic results by a system of ecological checking.

How does that work? And how does one validate the authenticity of the memory, not just the therapeutic effect?

Your example proves that there are hazardous charlatans practicising in every layer of medicine

Here is a confronting question, and you may even find it insulting, however I mean this is the best possible way and I like you to give it an honest thought: how do you know you are not one of those hazardous charlatans?

And how could we know?

 

[Aster]

Aster, please remember that among skeptics there is considerable doubt that hypnosis even is a real phenomenon, and not just people wanting to play along with a hypnotist.

You doubt the sincerety of the clients who seek the help of hypnotherpaist now ? And I suppose that there is no doubt whatsoever among skeptics that psychotherapy is nót just people wanting to play along with a psychotherapist ? Give me a brake, teacher.

Isn't it also true that there are a lot of people educating and certifying hypnotherapists without ever having to show any real knowledge of psychology?

When you choose to see things from that one sided perspective, sure. Among trainers are clinical psychologists, first line psychologists, psychotherapists, biologists, psychiatrists and even brainsurgeons; all professionals from the Proven field of medicine with one extra: their thinking is a little broader as they are intriqued by alternative ways of practice.

Psychological experiments have shown time and time again that it is incredibly hard to ask questions that do not have some sort of suggestion in them.

You are cutting short my answer which takes it out of perspective. Obviously, almost anything is a suggestion. But it is one thing to follow ones own interpretation and ask questions that lead the client along as opposed to mirror the content of what's offered as information by the client litterally in the same or slightly different wording. This principle is called utilisation (Erickson).

after all people need to know what kind of answer is expected of them when they are being questioned.

Not at all. Besides that, you forget that the hypnosis is taking the personality beyond the borders of rational thinking. After a question you are accustomed to think before you answer. With NLP/hypnotherapy I suggest that you don't think about the answer first but listen to what enters into the mind naturally.

Among skeptics there is considerable doubt that people even can repress memories

It's the system that does that for people and people tend to suppress emotions associated to these memories. They don't want to think about or be reminded of traumatic experiences, so they call in the mechanism to avoid this.

but where those memories later turned out to be false.

I am not primarily concerned wether or not the information a client tells me is true or false. There's no way for me to verify but that is not because I am a hypnotherapist and not a psychiatrist. What concerns me is wether or not the clients can solve his/her problems with the information he/she provides. If that result is achieved on the basis of 'false' information, both client and I are happy.

How does that work? And how does one validate the authenticity of the memory, not just the therapeutic effect?

Ecological checking is much like playing the devils advocate after a solution found for a clients problem. The therapist intends to stimulate latent objections to the accepted solutions. The therapeutic process is obviously most succesfull if there is no objection left. This way it is avoided that a client simply plays along with the therapist.

how do you know you are not one of those hazardous charlatans?

I am not devoid of making mistakes, nor is any human being. But it's up to you to prove that I am a hazardous charlatan, and not merely with the skeptics dictionary in your hand.
You know, this discussion started simply because someone opted that I should seek therapy. My answer was that I have done so and even became a therapist afterwards. I'll add to that, that it would only take one more year of study (social studies) to obtain a full license as a regular psychotherapist. I have also explained here that, in my case, I can not be anyones patient (psychologist, psychiatrist) because there is NO PATHOLOGY. So, the suggestion is absolete, unnescessary, ignorent and insulting on a normal human level.

Rgds.,
Aster.



Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Aster]

Powa

What I'm trying to say is this: if you want (or need) something to have significance, you'll find it and dismiss any other (more mundane) explanations.

But it works the other way around as well, you see. If you are focussed to always find the mundane, you'll find it and dismiss the possible significance of the experience. In your case the significance could be in the meaning of that song, or that song as an anchor that would lead you to understand something or merely means to understand that what synchronicity offers you.
But no, it's just coincidence and we don't have to think about it anymore. No matter the beauty of the moment, the experience and what it communicates on various levels. In my mind that is plain ignorent and stupid.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Powa]

Re: Powa

But it works the other way around as well, you see. If you are focussed to always find the mundane, you'll find it and dismiss the possible significance of the experience. In your case the significance could be in the meaning of that song, or that song as an anchor that would lead you to understand something or merely means to understand that what synchronicity offers you.
But no, it's just coincidence and we don't have to think about it anymore. No matter the beauty of the moment, the experience and what it communicates on various levels. In my mind that is plain ignorent and stupid.

So, what you're saying is that I should invent more 'colorful' explanations for such events and not go for the most probable (often mundane) one? The fact that the event was a coincidence took nothing away from it. I still got a kick out of it. But I stoped inventing magic things at about the age of 5. That doesn't mean I lead a dull life. I like to watch science-fiction and fantasy movies (like LOTR) but I know it's fantasy. I don't incorporate magic stuff into my life. Is not believing in magic and supernatural things stupid and ignorant? Am I ignorant? Show me some hard evidence and I'll try to learn.

Unless I'm too stupid.

 

[Aster]

If you are talking about emotions and feelings, then what I have been saying is that the connection you have perceived is emotional....However, this connection is not necessarily related in any other way (especially in the case of one predicting the other).

I am not quite sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that the connection I have perceived is emotional and therefore questionable ?

Let me put this it in perspective for you: there is no doubt in my mind that what caused me to paint this painting was emotional. The emotions were always extremely strong. But the experience were as much a mental, emotional ánd a psychic experience.

The experience we should discuss should not merely be the perceiving of the connection. The experience was a psycho-physiological introspective happening that lasted for three years (1976-1979) and lead to the creation of the painting.

When the paintings (3) were finally created in 1979, I knew that I had manifested something that communicated something very important (to me), but which I did not understand. I understand now that I was probably not meant to be understood beforehand and that the understanding was meant to grow afterwards.

I also understand now that the experience that lead to the painting was latent ideomotor effect. In 1983 happened what was painted surrounded by images of the afterlife.

Much later (late 1990's) I perceived the connection that made me believe the painting was a predicition. To say that thát perception is emotional is true, but probably not because of the reasons you see. Pathology ? Emotionally driven I made a connection where there is none....

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Aster]

Powa

I still got a kick out of it.

Your clock was not pointed at 11:11 was it ?

Okay, so you do not dismiss the experience. Then you are beyond the level of ignorence and stupidity. You just say you feel something as a result of the coincidence that you explain as a kick. But why do you get a kick out of coincidence ? And do you get a kick out of every coincidence ? Do you ever ask yourself what was the meaning of that coincidence ? Not that this will lead you onto a path of supernatural perse, but of spirituality and a deeper sensing of what is perceived as reality for sure. You seem to be happy just experiencing and not thinking much about it further. I see in your type of coincidences and kicks a (spiritual)awakening, however simple. I try to read what these fibers of reality teach me, communicate to me. This is just as human and natural as anything else. But a connection to the supernatural is natural too, as everything ís connected to the supernatural.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Powa]

Re: Powa

Okay, so you do not dismiss the experience. Then you are beyond the level of ignorence and stupidity. You just say you feel something as a result of the coincidence that you explain as a kick. But why do you get a kick out of coincidence ? And do you get a kick out of every coincidence ?

By "kick" I mean that I found the event very amusing and it really made my day. Why did I get a kick out of it? Because chances of it happening were next to impossible. The more startling the coincidence the stronger kick I get. With some coincidences it's like "Ah..." and with some more like "WTF?!?". Bottome line: coincidences amuse me and I don't pin meaning to them.

Do you ever ask yourself what was the meaning of that coincidence ?

No. I doesn't have to have a meaning. And even if it did I could only speculate about it. Much like you.

Not that this will lead you onto a path of supernatural perse, but of spirituality and a deeper sensing of what is perceived as reality for sure. You seem to be happy just experiencing and not thinking much about it further.

Thinking about it further would mean inventing supernatural explanations about the event. I don't do that.

I see in your type of coincidences and kicks a (spiritual)awakening, however simple.

Hm... Am I spiritually asleep?

I try to read what these fibers of reality teach me, communicate to me. This is just as human and natural as anything else.

You essentially invent supernatural explanations for events. I don't do that.

But a connection to the supernatural is natural too, as everything ís connected to the supernatural.

Says you. Prove it.

 

[thaiboxerken]

It's really sad that Aster is "helping" people. I wonder how many people he's "helped" into believing in the supernatural. I wonder how many people he's "helped" into believing they've been abducted by aliens. I wonder how many people he's "helped" to empty their bank accounts. I wonder how many people he's "helped" to become insane.

 

[Aster]

It's really sad that Aster is "helping" people. I wonder how many people he's "helped" into believing in the supernatural. I wonder how many people he's "helped" into believing they've been abducted by aliens. I wonder how many people he's "helped" to empty their bank accounts. I wonder how many people he's "helped" to become insane.

Brother... your comments become more and more ridiculous. Why do you wonder all those things about me ? Don't you have anything better to do ? The supernatural and paranormal have no place in the work I do as a hypnotherapist. The cause I saw to express a side of my personal life on the JREF board does not intertwine with my profession. My profession is not to help clients to believe in something I believe in. I merely help them help themselves.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Aster]

coincidences amuse me and I don't pin meaning to them.

That is a smart conscious choice you are making. Why is it smart ? Because pinning meaning to coincidental happenings that make you think WTF would be something you consciously dó; the meaning of the coincidence however is there all along and you are invited to discover what that is. They are happening to awake you into another level of awareness, of being concious.

And even if it did I could only speculate about it. Much like you.

You just don't know - but could learn - how to listen to that information well inside. That means, not to go about it rationally, mentally and with your cocky ego first. Not like me, I don't speculate, I may show a vulnerable side of me, that's all. But I do listen... I do receive information this way; hand out after hand out I still study and learn over the same subject 25 years into the experience.

Thinking about it further would mean inventing supernatural explanations about the event. I don't do that.

I don't either.

Hm... Am I spiritually asleep?

In my eyes, Yes. In the eyes of others, perhaps not.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[NullPointerException]

Yes, I give credence to coincidence, that is why I still believe planting potatoes causes plague outbreaks.

 

[Powa]

Yes, I give credence to coincidence, that is why I still believe planting potatoes causes plague outbreaks.

I give up. I don't understand this one...

 

[Aster]

Yes, I give credence to coincidence, that is why I still believe planting potatoes causes plague outbreaks.

I love this. What's presented here as an example is what I would call synchronicity, probably because I mentally have no clue nor can I readily explain why plague outbreaks and potatoes, which apparently have nothing in common and are not related, can in fact be believed to be related. Coïncidence may once prove to become the synchronicity that it always was.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Powa]

I love this. What's presented here as an example is what I would call synchronicity, probably because I mentally have no clue nor can I readily explain why plague outbreaks and potatoes, which apparently have nothing in common and are not related, can in fact be believed to be related. Coïncidence may once prove to become the synchronicity that it always was.

I don't get this either.

I feel very stupid at the moment...

 

[thaiboxerken]

No, Powa.. Aster's answer is very hard to decipher for anyone because it is worded very strangely. He uses fancy words to try and get people to think he's smart.

Basically, what he's saying is that there probably are not coincidences... just connections that we haven't discovered yet.

It's a bunch of BS, but hey... what can you do?