Question about the supernatural act

[Powa]

Then why merely be on a path to hunt ducks and insult alternative ways by calling them charlatanism without also respecting the practices and methods of people who deserve it ?

Why in your opinion is it called "alternative" anyway? Why is it differentiated from regular medicine? If it works it's medicine. Period. I know I repeat myself but this is an important point I'm trying to make.

(Edited for typos caused by a malfunctioning keyboard - or brain?)

 

[Rolfe]

OK. Pulling out my copy of Clinical Hypnosis: Principles and Applications (Second Edition) by Harold B. Crasilneck, Ph.D. (Clinical Professor of Psychiatry; Clinical Professor of Anesthesiology) and James A. Hall, M.D. (Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry) of University of Texas Health Science Center; Southwestern Medial School; Dallas, Texas; published by Allyn and Bacon, 1985.

Smoking cessasion on p.222:

Much more discussion of the psychodynamics of smoking and specific techniques follow.

Ah, no concrete evidence, then. Anecdotes are all very well, but I've heard very many contrary anecdotes of people who paid quite a lot of money for this "treatment" only to relapse after a few days or weeks. Is Dr. Crasilneck really going to tell us about these in his book? (Actually, even what he does claim, one in five, isn't that impressive.)

The harder the smoker tries to give up, the more successful he's likley to be. There's no evidence that anything else (possibly excepting nicotine patches) is more than just a bit of psychological support. Maybe Dr. Crasilneck's 20% were just those who were always going to try hardest?

It may have some use in this way, but the problem is that the claims are so much more. Say you can support the smoker psychologically, fine. Though the price seems a little high. And where studies have been done, the recidivism rate was no better for those with such support than those without. Declare (as one hypnotherapist did to me) that in a single session you can flip a switch in the brain and the craving will be gone, sorry, no.

Rolfe.

Rolfe.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I write : There ís a need, a demand, period, it's not relevant to judge the worthyness of these things.

Your sentence makes absolutely no sense. The flaws in your reasoning are very predominate. We are talking about the effectiveness of alternative medicine, not it's marketability. Alternative medicines are "alternative" because they are not proven effective. Simply because there are many fools out there buying the stuff doesn't make it any more valid or ethical to sell.

There is a demand for crack-cocaine in the world too, after all.

That's simply not true. It surely doesn't count for my profession anyway. But for example eastern medicine is often considered alternative medicine in the west. Never mind that in China acupuncture is a science based on the knowledge of thousands of years. Its component Chi however is defined as being undetectable by western science. So, does that mean that Chi, Ki, Reiki, Orgon, Ka or Prana and what have we, don't exist and that all cultural knowledge based on life energies are simply based on medical charlatanism ?

Yes it is true. TCM is based on thousands of years of tradition, not science or knowledge. It's still considered alternative because it has not been proven effective. "Chi" and other such "energies" are not based on knowledge, but superstition and ignorance. It's quackery.

Exactly. These tribal methods existed long before science figured out that they worked. Then why merely be on a path to hunt ducks and insult alternative ways by calling them charlatanism without also respecting the practices and methods of people who deserve it ?

They existed and science has figured out that SOME of the methods work. Other methods don't work. The ones that haven't proven effective are still considered alternative. You are missing the point. SOME tribal methods may work, some don't. But to simply work outside of science, especially these days, is quackery. Sorry, but you can cast spells all you want but until you can show that spells work, it will be labelled as alternative.

Maybe Dr. Crasilneck's 20% were just those who were always going to try hardest?

I wonder how he differentiates between the 20% that would've quit using other methods vs hypnosis. My wife quit smoking by simply making the decision to. So did I.


Aster. No matter how much you hate science and skepticism..those methods of thought will always produce the most results. You can run to the "singularity" excuse for why supernatural events carry no evidence, but it just won't convince me.

You have no evidence for the supernatural, until you do.. maybe you should STFU.

 

[Powa]

<snip>
until you do.. maybe you should STFU.

 

[Suggestologist]

Ah, no concrete evidence, then. Anecdotes are all very well, but I've heard very many contrary anecdotes of people who paid quite a lot of money for this "treatment" only to relapse after a few days or weeks. Is Dr. Crasilneck really going to tell us about these in his book? (Actually, even what he does claim, one in five, isn't that impressive.)

Well, that's for single-session. And I personally have problems with the idea of a single-session approach to just about any form of problem using any modality.

The harder the smoker tries to give up, the more successful he's likley to be. There's no evidence that anything else (possibly excepting nicotine patches) is more than just a bit of psychological support. Maybe Dr. Crasilneck's 20% were just those who were always going to try hardest?

Studies were referenced in the section quoted; I can provide full citations upon request.

It may have some use in this way, but the problem is that the claims are so much more. Say you can support the smoker psychologically, fine. Though the price seems a little high. And where studies have been done, the recidivism rate was no better for those with such support than those without. Declare (as one hypnotherapist did to me) that in a single session you can flip a switch in the brain and the craving will be gone, sorry, no.

Rolfe.

Rolfe.

I don't go for the switch-flipping approach. (Though, LeCron was noted for using a similar approach for hypnodontia: he had people go inside their head and find the switch (or was it a dial) that controlled pain to their mouth; and flip it off.)

I'm more into the fantasy-rehearsal conditioning approach. That's one of the problems with asking whether or not "hypnosis" is effective; even within hypnosis, there are many many different possible approaches. So, it's the specific hypnotic technique that is or is not effective; not "hypnosis".

On the back cover of the book, I just noticed that it includes in Crasilneck's bio: "He and Dr. Hall won the SCEH Roy M. Dorcus Award for clinical research in the use of hypnosis to control cigarette smoking, and the SCEH best book award in 1976"; also: "He is the senior author of 44 research papers and publications which have appeared in JAMA, the Journals of ASCH, SCEH, Australian Society of Clinical Hypnosis, and the Swedish Society of Clinical Hypnosis."

 

[Aster]

Eternal Universe

Your positive attitude and response allows me to find some peace of mind and indeed opens me up to an awareness that I had expected to find much earlier on the rebound and on a broader scale in this community. People like Earthborn, Suggestologist and yourself allow for a healthier balance between the convinced believer and the duck hunters; you seem to hunt for a catch instead for a kill. It is warming to read your statement "the painting predicted the event of your brother, and thus something supernatural may be going on."

(... that you did something supernatural)

First of all this: Although I view my claim as an example of supernatural act, I do not think of it as having done something supernatural myself. The idea that the supernatural happens through me feels closer to the truth. I have become a trancendent tool of the supernatural act and my body-spirit system is utilised to manifest the supernatural act. Therefore, I view the quality not as a function of my self, but as a function of an autonomous system.

Am I or am I not justified in having my claim ? In order to answer that question and understand the psychological and emotional factors involved, it is nescessary to know the archeology.

Remember, I am not doubting that you painted the painting before the events in question, just the interpretation of its significance.

For one: The making of this painting (one of a triptich) is significant because with the detail of the burial scene, this work beholds the material key that bridges a realm of what could be explained as fantasy and true reality.

Without this basic agreement that we will be logical, communication would not be possible.

I’ll do my best. There is a flip side of logic that is still logic, but that you may not accept, where I would say it is natural logic to me. After all logic stemms from chaos. Pls. be patient.

If the claim (and correct me if I am incorrect) is that you painted something that predicted the future, However, I submit that the explanation that the event represents a "coincidence", is a better explanation.

The grave scene is one detail that points towards the future. The other elements suggest that the painting depicts realms of the afterlife, specifically according to ancient Egyptian tradition.

First of all, you mention, at least twice, that you do not believe in coincidences, but in "synchronicity" - please define this term.

Synchronicity to me is an example of a spiritual awakening; a sudden clearity of mind, and an awareness that communicates from the soul level to you, the reassuring fact that, often beyond the point of logical and emotional understanding or knowing, you feel THAT you know and you know WHAT you feel as a correct association of two or more, apparently not connected fibres of reality that come together in one menaingful occurence.

of the myriad experiences, why do you deem the connection between the painting and the events of your brother as significant?

Again, the burial scene seems to be the key detail that bridges an apparently innocent realm of fantasy or suppressed subconscious information with brutal reality. The paintings themselves must therefore be viewed as the womb whereïn this psychic information could grow and materialize in order to serve me as an extraordinary example of supernatural act. As I wrote earlier, all ingredients of the paintings are relevant if we are determined to understand what is and has been happening to me.

Over the past six or seven years it has become clear to me (and as such should become part of my claim - Earthborn) that I have painted scenes of the afterlife, possibly according to ancient Egyptian tradition, with this particular set of paintings of 1979 on the one hand and with my autonomous ideomotor drawing work, from 1994 to 2002.

In 1983, just weeks after my brother was murdered and burried in Israel, my brother started to write automatically through me. At least, this is what it, logically and emotionally looked like. Two years later, another signature wrote through me that my brother would no longer be available for this type of communication anymore and continued answering questions about the cosmic whereabouts of my brother in the afterlife.

I know now that the ideomotor effects causing automatic writing were not something that happened spontaniously there and then, in 1983. There’s no doubt in my mind that this inner force had been dorment and building up for years in advance of his death. It caused tremendous mental and emotional stress that I could not appoint a logical cause to. The need, urge and desire to express something totally obscure and obsessive that I felt I was hosting inside my body, spoke to me from beyond the borders of life and death. Thát was my logic at the time and this still hold up as truth. This happened during a period of living in London from 1977 to 1979, when I left the Netherlands to become a student recluse in order to deal with this obscure inner force.

It sounds weird, but I am telling you the truth. I did not realize for a moment that whatever was inside me tried to make me ready for a drama that was going to happen no matter what.
And its objective was not to be clear, not to forewarn me so to prevent my brothers murder from happening. No, the murder of my brother happened in 1983 and had a supernatural cause. No psychological or emotional logic! My painting, made in 1979, is therefore a significant piece of evidence that may serve to prove the fact that the supernatural act is a true phenomenon.

I would submit that the connection, and I hope that you think about this deeply, is not supernatural, but psychological and emotional.

To rule out the supernatural and think about the psychological and emotional cause is not difficult for me. But it won’t give me any answers, you see. You’ll have to see me as an archealogical site and start to dig layer after layer. And be determined to find evidence. Try to prove and disprove the evidence I represent at the same time instead of one thing and not the other. I am ready to disprove my own evidence. But I also know inside that I am not the one you will deal with in the end. I am not the relevant subject in the end you see. The other side will replace me, one way or another.

Please explain to me what no psychologist, parapsychologist, scientist, friend, skeptic or anyone else has been able to explain in twenty five years. Explain to me the sole psychological and emotional disposition that could have caused me to express with such great detail something that I did not have any knowledge about and even create a bridge to utter reality in order to seal the great masterplan ? I am explaining it to you in words of a local artist or amture scientist, and to the world, and from Earthborn I learned that my presentation gives cause to the fact that noone will listen with opened ears, noone will ask the relative questions or even take my work as an interesting example for a plausible cause of noting the supernatural act.

Because of the psychological and emotional factors that makes you want to believe that a supernatural event has occurred, it is not surprising that you hold the position that you do.

Okay, what keeps me encircled here is that the psychological and emotional factors are logically speaking coming forth from experiencing NDE in 1963 at age 5, after open heart surgery; I have been ‘dead’ and reanimated and the massive quantities of injected morphine must also have been of some influence ?
I have been speaking to God since age 11 – used mirror gazing as silent meditation – and speaking english in my prayers which is not my native language nor tought at preschool is something that still buggles me. I suffered two heavy anxiety attacks (hyperventilation) that passed me out at age 7 and I remember having very clear repeditive dreams about two bright lights that anchored a distinct feeling and sensation of slipping away and being dissolved. It left me with the idea that nothing is what it seems and a profound idea of how reality is flipped, mirrored, i don't have the right words now.

My vivid and lucid dreaming anchored me in a realm of reality that I knew as a child was different from the people and children around me. There's no beginning to tell you what psychological and emotional factors are further involved here. Having said all this, the supernatural act remains a psychologically and emotionally disturbing experiencing, unless we start to recognize these things and start educating ourselves about these matters.

Just think - rationally, would there be better explanations rather than the supernatural that can be evoked to explain the seeming connection between the art and the events of your brother?

I’m one and all ear...

Firstly, the connection was made after the fact. You realized that the painting predicted the events of your brother after/during the burial.

I have explained to you why. I was not to consciously know. He was not to consciously know.

For one, and correct me if I am wrong, the cemetery scence is only a smaller portion of the whole picture. Why would the prediction manifest itself as a small part of the entire painting ?

I believe that question is answered. If not, please let me know.

Whatever you believe the significance is of the painting, the fact remains that the significance must be interpreted. Why must an interpretation of significance be needed in the first place?

That is a question that I have always asked myself all the time. Things are just not clear at first sight. The only idea I have is that something is going on which is way beyond me, above me, something that I am a part of, an active part, but not in control. The fibres of my reality seem to be woven by supernatural act and I am in a way the spiritually equipped earth element, the physical existance hosting the supernatural act and manifesting it. Is that way beyond logic ? What’s your take on it ?

It is true that science is probably not the tool to use if you want to PROVE your claims (science's aim is to disprove, after all). However, I believe that you are trying to figure out a method that transcends science, if you will.

This is so well put... If you will... thank you for going this deep verbally. And I have strong leads in that direction. For instance, my ideomotor drawings are the key to the formula that links spiritual communciation to the science of math. Now, read math as mathematics and also as Matthew. Science and religion meet in my psychic experience of what is to come. And in what is to come, I have been very thoroughly educated and fully initiated.
I have come to know my limits, I know my failures the hard way. I died the second death, if you know what that means.

However, to do this is to abandon certain assumptions, involving not only the abandonment of concepts such as falsification, causality, time and space, but the roots of rationality and logic as well.

Thank you. My ideomotor work may serve as an example of that experience. It is true you know, what your saying. Not just thought.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Powa]

Re: Eternal Universe

The grave scene is one detail that points towards the future.

Yes, if you a priori decide that you've created this scene through supernatural means. Can you really do that?

Over the past six or seven years it has become clear to me (and as such should become part of my claim - Earthborn) that I have painted scenes of the afterlife, possibly according to ancient Egyptian tradition, with this particular set of paintings of 1979 on the one hand and with my autonomous ideomotor drawing work, from 1994 to 2002.

Again, you've decided that the drawings had been made through your autonomous ideomotor. How can you be so sure? Can you prove it?

In 1983, just weeks after my brother was murdered and burried in Israel, my brother started to write automatically through me. At least, this is what it, logically and emotionally looked like.

Emotionally, certainly (that's a point someone here already tried to make). Logically, no. Why would it be logical (think Ockham's Razor here)?

I know now that the ideomotor effects causing automatic writing were not something that happened spontaniously there and then, in 1983. There’s no doubt in my mind that this inner force had been dorment and building up for years in advance of his death. It caused tremendous mental and emotional stress that I could not appoint a logical cause to. The need, urge and desire to express something totally obscure and obsessive that I felt I was hosting inside my body, spoke to me from beyond the borders of life and death. Thát was my logic at the time and this still hold up as truth.

It would hold up as truth if you had evidence. Do you? Your brother's death must have been a traumatic experience for you, and with your emotions running high, I suppose there was little place for logic in your life at the time (possibly even now).

It sounds weird, but I am telling you the truth.

It can only become the truth through evidence, and when I say evidence, I mean something that is going to convince every skeptic anywhere. Knowing something it's not evidence.

No, the murder of my brother happened in 1983 and had a supernatural cause. No psychological or emotional logic! My painting, made in 1979, is therefore a significant piece of evidence that may serve to prove the fact that the supernatural act is a true phenomenon.

Your brother's murder had a supernatural cause? Can you elaborate on that (if it's not too stressful for you to talk about it)? And how is your painting a significant piece of evidence? This is your take on things and you can't prove it to us.

To rule out the supernatural and think about the psychological and emotional cause is not difficult for me. But it won’t give me any answers, you see.

Well if you look for answers to your emotional needs, it won't.

I am ready to disprove my own evidence.

Your evidence can't be disproven. It is you who is making a claim and you should prove it.

Please explain to me what no psychologist, parapsychologist, scientist, friend, skeptic or anyone else has been able to explain in twenty five years.

I don't know how all those people tried to explain it, so I can't comment on it.

Explain to me the sole psychological and emotional disposition that could have caused me to express with such great detail something that I did not have any knowledge about and even create a bridge to utter reality in order to seal the great masterplan ?

Well, a death of your sibling can be extremely distressful, so this was (is) probably your emotional disposition. I don't know what you have expressed and whether you had any knowledge of it. Can you elaborate on this?

I am explaining it to you in words of a local artist or amture scientist, and to the world, and from Earthborn I learned that my presentation gives cause to the fact that noone will listen with opened ears, noone will ask the relative questions or even take my work as an interesting example for a plausible cause of noting the supernatural act.

What do you mean by "noone will listen with opened ears"? I'm all ears if you have some evidence to show us.

Aster, I'm not attacking you, I just want to clear some things up.

 

[Earthborn]

Aster, I like to do a little experiment with you. I hope you will try to help. It might clarify a few things.

In a book I own, I found this drawing:

What I want you to do is study the picture carefully and tell me:

• What do you think the picture depicts? Try to think of an obvious answer.
• Can you give me an idea of when the picture was drawn?
  Try to make an rough estimate of the time period that wouldn't require any paranormal events.
• What are the similarities that made you think what it represents?
• Can you also name a few differences?
• Are there any other things you can think of it might also represent?

Others can join in the experiment too, but first allow Aster to answer.

 

[Aster]

Aster, I like to do a little experiment with you. I hope you will try to help. It might clarify a few things.

What I want you to do is study the picture carefully and tell me:

• What do you think the picture depicts? Try to think of an obvious answer.
  
  The picture is composed of two separate pictures one on top of the other that share an fairly identical background. The first (top) picture depicts an airplane apparently flying on a collision course with a building. The next (bottom) picture depicts an airplane that collides with that building.
  
• Can you give me an idea of when the picture was drawn?
  
  No.
  
  Try to make an rough estimate of the time period that wouldn't require any paranormal events.
  
  I can't. There's nothing that I can discover in the picture that suggests a timeframe when this picture was made.
  
• What are the similarities that made you think what it represents?
  
  The picture recalls the memory I have of the twin tower drama. The similarity that triggers this memory is the apparent animation of an airplane flying towards and later colliding with a long tall building.
  
• Can you also name a few differences?
  
  The plane doesn't match. From the picture it is not evident that this is the twin towers. For one, the twin tower is missing.
  
• Are there any other things you can think of it might also represent?
  
  No, other that it represents your idea concerning this test.
  
  Rgds.,
  Aster.

 

[TheBoyPaj]

The BoyPaj wrote : As are tobacco, herion and daytime TV. Just because there is a demand for something, that does not make it worthy or acceptable.

I wrote : There ís a need, a demand, period, it's not relevant to judge the worthyness of these things.

You wrote : There is a demand for beer. Does this mean the beer is good for you?

I write : There ís a need, a demand, period, it's not relevant to judge the worthyness of these things.

Rgds.,
Aster.

I didn't write that second part, but then what the hell. Accuracy and attention to detail are not the order of the day right now are they?

Interesting view. So you supply whatever is in demand whether or not it is beneficial or even safe. Do your patients (or your sponsors) know you hold these questionable views?

Regarding that picture of the plane and the tower, I agree that there are many differences, and that it does not, per se, depict the Twin Tower event. But it is far, far more accurate than your painting. I can't even make out what your picture is supposed to be, and you have explained it to me.

 

[Earthborn]

The picture recalls the memory I have of the twin tower drama. The similarity that triggers this memory is the apparent animation of an airplane flying towards and later colliding with a long tall building.

Yes, I agree that it does remind of the September 11 attacks.

The plane doesn't match. From the picture it is not evident that this is the twin towers. For one, the twin tower is missing.

Correct. There are many differences. Remember that if we need to establish whether a picture depicts a particular event, we'll have to consider the similarities as well as the differences. The burial scene in the picture you made in the late seventies certainly has similarities with the burial of your brother. But it has also many differences!

It maybe that the differences have some symbolic meaning, but since it is very hard to distinguish between a symbolic meaning the 'paranormal act' wants to communicate, and a symbolic meaning someone tries to see him/herself in the picture, we cannot use it as evidence of any paranormal activity. It doesn't disprove it either.

No, other that it represents your idea concerning this test.

I can think of another newsevent that has striking similarities with the drawing. In the wake of September 11, there were two other incidents involving planes and skyscrapers:

Bank of America plane Crash, January 5, 2002.

Both in the drawing as in Tampa, it involves a skyscraper with straight edges.
In both it involves a small single engine propellor airplane.
The incident in Tampa involves a Cessna, which is a plane where the wings are attached to the roof. This is exactly the sort of plane that is depicted in the picture.
In both cases, the plane basically crumbles against the building (this is a bit hard to see in the picture as I scanned it in a low resolution, but in the book it is apperent) and keeps the building largely intact.

the Pirelli Tower plane crash, April 19, 2002.

In Milan the highest tower was hit. The highest tower in the picture is hit.
Both the drawing and the incident involve a small single engine propellor airplane.
In both cases, the plane basically crumbles against the building and keeps the building largely intact.

I think the similarities between the drawing and the incidents in 2001 and 2002 are uncanny. Would you be surprised if I said that the picture was published in a book in 1982, about 20 years(!) before any of this occured?

Do you think it is likely that the writer of the book foresaw the events? Can you think of a non-paranormal explanation?

 

[EternalUniverse]

Re: Eternal Universe

Your positive attitude and response allows me to find some peace of mind and indeed opens me up to an awareness that I had expected to find much earlier on the rebound and on a broader scale in this community. People like Earthborn, Suggestologist and yourself allow for a healthier balance between the convinced believer and the duck hunters; you seem to hunt for a catch instead for a kill. It is warming to read your statement "the painting predicted the event of your brother, and thus something supernatural may be going on."

First of all this: Although I view my claim as an example of supernatural act, I do not think of it as having done something supernatural myself. The idea that the supernatural happens through me feels closer to the truth. I have become a trancendent tool of the supernatural act and my body-spirit system is utilised to manifest the supernatural act. Therefore, I view the quality not as a function of my self, but as a function of an autonomous system.

Am I or am I not justified in having my claim ? In order to answer that question and understand the psychological and emotional factors involved, it is nescessary to know the archeology.



For one: The making of this painting (one of a triptich) is significant because with the detail of the burial scene, this work beholds the material key that bridges a realm of what could be explained as fantasy and true reality.



I’ll do my best. There is a flip side of logic that is still logic, but that you may not accept, where I would say it is natural logic to me. After all logic stemms from chaos. Pls. be patient.



The grave scene is one detail that points towards the future. The other elements suggest that the painting depicts realms of the afterlife, specifically according to ancient Egyptian tradition.



Synchronicity to me is an example of a spiritual awakening; a sudden clearity of mind, and an awareness that communicates from the soul level to you, the reassuring fact that, often beyond the point of logical and emotional understanding or knowing, you feel THAT you know and you know WHAT you feel as a correct association of two or more, apparently not connected fibres of reality that come together in one menaingful occurence.



Again, the burial scene seems to be the key detail that bridges an apparently innocent realm of fantasy or suppressed subconscious information with brutal reality. The paintings themselves must therefore be viewed as the womb whereïn this psychic information could grow and materialize in order to serve me as an extraordinary example of supernatural act. As I wrote earlier, all ingredients of the paintings are relevant if we are determined to understand what is and has been happening to me.

Over the past six or seven years it has become clear to me (and as such should become part of my claim - Earthborn) that I have painted scenes of the afterlife, possibly according to ancient Egyptian tradition, with this particular set of paintings of 1979 on the one hand and with my autonomous ideomotor drawing work, from 1994 to 2002.

In 1983, just weeks after my brother was murdered and burried in Israel, my brother started to write automatically through me. At least, this is what it, logically and emotionally looked like. Two years later, another signature wrote through me that my brother would no longer be available for this type of communication anymore and continued answering questions about the cosmic whereabouts of my brother in the afterlife.

I know now that the ideomotor effects causing automatic writing were not something that happened spontaniously there and then, in 1983. There’s no doubt in my mind that this inner force had been dorment and building up for years in advance of his death. It caused tremendous mental and emotional stress that I could not appoint a logical cause to. The need, urge and desire to express something totally obscure and obsessive that I felt I was hosting inside my body, spoke to me from beyond the borders of life and death. Thát was my logic at the time and this still hold up as truth. This happened during a period of living in London from 1977 to 1979, when I left the Netherlands to become a student recluse in order to deal with this obscure inner force.

It sounds weird, but I am telling you the truth. I did not realize for a moment that whatever was inside me tried to make me ready for a drama that was going to happen no matter what.
And its objective was not to be clear, not to forewarn me so to prevent my brothers murder from happening. No, the murder of my brother happened in 1983 and had a supernatural cause. No psychological or emotional logic! My painting, made in 1979, is therefore a significant piece of evidence that may serve to prove the fact that the supernatural act is a true phenomenon.



To rule out the supernatural and think about the psychological and emotional cause is not difficult for me. But it won’t give me any answers, you see. You’ll have to see me as an archealogical site and start to dig layer after layer. And be determined to find evidence. Try to prove and disprove the evidence I represent at the same time instead of one thing and not the other. I am ready to disprove my own evidence. But I also know inside that I am not the one you will deal with in the end. I am not the relevant subject in the end you see. The other side will replace me, one way or another.

Please explain to me what no psychologist, parapsychologist, scientist, friend, skeptic or anyone else has been able to explain in twenty five years. Explain to me the sole psychological and emotional disposition that could have caused me to express with such great detail something that I did not have any knowledge about and even create a bridge to utter reality in order to seal the great masterplan ? I am explaining it to you in words of a local artist or amture scientist, and to the world, and from Earthborn I learned that my presentation gives cause to the fact that noone will listen with opened ears, noone will ask the relative questions or even take my work as an interesting example for a plausible cause of noting the supernatural act.



Okay, what keeps me encircled here is that the psychological and emotional factors are logically speaking coming forth from experiencing NDE in 1963 at age 5, after open heart surgery; I have been ‘dead’ and reanimated and the massive quantities of injected morphine must also have been of some influence ?
I have been speaking to God since age 11 – used mirror gazing as silent meditation – and speaking english in my prayers which is not my native language nor tought at preschool is something that still buggles me. I suffered two heavy anxiety attacks (hyperventilation) that passed me out at age 7 and I remember having very clear repeditive dreams about two bright lights that anchored a distinct feeling and sensation of slipping away and being dissolved. It left me with the idea that nothing is what it seems and a profound idea of how reality is flipped, mirrored, i don't have the right words now.

My vivid and lucid dreaming anchored me in a realm of reality that I knew as a child was different from the people and children around me. There's no beginning to tell you what psychological and emotional factors are further involved here. Having said all this, the supernatural act remains a psychologically and emotionally disturbing experiencing, unless we start to recognize these things and start educating ourselves about these matters.



I’m one and all ear...



I have explained to you why. I was not to consciously know. He was not to consciously know.



I believe that question is answered. If not, please let me know.



That is a question that I have always asked myself all the time. Things are just not clear at first sight. The only idea I have is that something is going on which is way beyond me, above me, something that I am a part of, an active part, but not in control. The fibres of my reality seem to be woven by supernatural act and I am in a way the spiritually equipped earth element, the physical existance hosting the supernatural act and manifesting it. Is that way beyond logic ? What’s your take on it ?



This is so well put... If you will... thank you for going this deep verbally. And I have strong leads in that direction. For instance, my ideomotor drawings are the key to the formula that links spiritual communciation to the science of math. Now, read math as mathematics and also as Matthew. Science and religion meet in my psychic experience of what is to come. And in what is to come, I have been very thoroughly educated and fully initiated.
I have come to know my limits, I know my failures the hard way. I died the second death, if you know what that means.



Thank you. My ideomotor work may serve as an example of that experience. It is true you know, what your saying. Not just thought.

Rgds.,
Aster.

Aster,

Thanks for the reply. I admit that trying to read every post on your threads amounts to reading a short novel (heh), so forgive me if it seems like I don't take some things into consideration.

To understand the issue, I believe that one must try to place themselves in your shoes. Based on events occuring in your lifehistory, such as the near death experience, the murder of your brother, your ability to create art autonomically etc., I see how emotional factors can serve as an influence when making certain interpretations. For example, you talk about synchronicity being influenced by feelings (and hence emotion).

Surely you see and feel at least some doubt as to the validity of the supernatural claim, based on the endless posts people have made.
Remember how we talked about perhaps coming up with some kind of new method to test whether or not something supernatural occurred? Assuming that there is something "unknown" and now "untestable" going on here, because of this, would it not be wise to suspend judgement before making one assertion or another? The elements and products of your life are no less remarkable because the event in question was not supernatural, just remarkable in a different way.

cheers.

 

[Aster]

Why in your opinion is it called "alternative" anyway? Why is it differentiated from regular medicine? If it works it's medicine. Period. I know I repeat myself but this is an important point I'm trying to make.

It is called alternative simply because it offers other choices besides regular medicine. Medical consumers must be able to excersize the principal freedom to choose their own therapy and therapist.

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Aster]

Assuming that there is something "unknown" and now "untestable" going on here, because of this, would it not be wise to suspend judgement before making one assertion or another? The elements and products of your life are no less remarkable because the event in question was not supernatural, just remarkable in a different way.

So, what you are suggesting then is to suspend judgement until some kind of new method comes into existence able to test whether or not something supernatural occurred. But you need to have at least an offer or claim towards the supernatural in order to discover such a method ? Does that count for all and every claim towards the supernatural ?

Would you comment on this point for me: Please explain to me what no psychologist, parapsychologist, scientist, friend, skeptic or anyone else has been able to explain in twenty five years. Explain to me the sole psychological and emotional disposition that could have caused me to express with such great detail something that I did not have any knowledge about and even create a bridge to utter reality in order to seal the great masterplan ?

Rgds.,
Aster.

 

[Powa]

It is called alternative simply because it offers other choices besides regular medicine. Medical consumers must be able to excersize the principal freedom to choose their own therapy and therapist.

I agree that people should be able to choose their own therapies. However, the question here is not about the freedom of choice, but the separation of "regular" and "alternative" medicine. Why, in your opinion, are the two differentiated at all? What's the criterion? I know what it is, I would just like to hear you opinion.

 

[TheBoyPaj]

Would you comment on this point for me: Please explain to me what no psychologist, parapsychologist, scientist, friend, skeptic or anyone else has been able to explain in twenty five years.

Explain to me the sole psychological and emotional disposition that could have caused me to express with such great detail something that I did not have any knowledge about

Imagination/artistic inspiration. Where this comes from is another question, but it would be folly to suggest that every painting/story/poem is either a depiction of a real event or a prediction of the future. Why can't it just be a painting?

and even create a bridge to utter reality in order to seal the great masterplan ?

You mean, why do you feel the need to pursue the issue that this might be a supernatural act? A desire to feel important, a genuine misunderstanding of the significance of the event, a desire to defraud others...? Take your pick.

I can't imagine that no one in 25 years has suggested this. Maybe they have but you just don't accept the explanation.

 

[Rolfe]

I agree that people should be able to choose their own therapies. However, the question here is not about the freedom of choice, but the separation of "regular" and "alternative" medicine. Why, in your opinion, are the two differentiated at all? What's the criterion? I know what it is, I would just like to hear you opinion.

Dunno what he thinks (if he thinks), but in my book one word. Efficacy, or at least willingness to go away and do something else if lack of efficacy is demonstrated.

It's not the allowing of choice I object to, it's the making of false and deceptive claims for ludicrous and useless interventions. To people who may be sick and vulnerable and afraid.

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

I do have a problem with freedom of choice. Not that I think that people should be forced to use conventional medicine, but it is obviously very difficult (actually impossible) for the lay-man to judge which regimen is most benificial, and it is simply not reasonable that a sick person should be faced with the need to make such a choice.

Therefore, I think that it should not be permitted to market regimens that are not documented to function.

Hans

 

[EternalUniverse]

So, what you are suggesting then is to suspend judgement until some kind of new method comes into existence able to test whether or not something supernatural occurred. But you need to have at least an offer or claim towards the supernatural in order to discover such a method ? Does that count for all and every claim towards the supernatural ?

Yes, I believe that suspension of judgment is in order in your case, because we just can't tell one way or another (now...or yet) because of the methods and tools we have at our present disposal. Don't think that people are not working on new methods - logicians and philosophers of science are probably working on this issue.

Would you comment on this point for me: Please explain to me what no psychologist, parapsychologist, scientist, friend, skeptic or anyone else has been able to explain in twenty five years. Explain to me the sole psychological and emotional disposition that could have caused me to express with such great detail something that I did not have any knowledge about and even create a bridge to utter reality in order to seal the great masterplan ?

Rgds.,
Aster.

People will give you explanations based on their belief/background/motivations, etc. But the important matter is that explanations must be accepted. The skeptic community will accept this as a case of coincidence (until shown otherwise), friends possibly (because of friendship) may accept the "unexplained" idea, and you accept this case as a matter of the unknown, and possibly the supernatural. But, you can't fault the skeptics for accepting a different explanation. You are asking them to accept a claim that, based on their background/beliefs/motivations, etc., AND the methods we have at their disposal, they can not know.

As Earthborn mentioned, if you want to prove the claim to the scientific community, you can provide evidence if this event occurs again. Unfortunately, until then, you will have to accept that people will accept different explanations.

 

[Aster]

As Earthborn mentioned, if you want to prove the claim to the scientific community, you can provide evidence if this event occurs again. Unfortunately, until then, you will have to accept that people will accept different explanations.

Accepting the opinions of others is not a problem with me at all.

You had raised a very interesting perspective. But somehow you are unable to answer my question. Somehow you seem to omit a direct answer because you are not able to provide it from a psychological/psychiatrical base of interpretation. You see... there is no pathology, I could never be their patient. Please, just from the perspective you offer, try and answer my question.

Rgds.,
Aster.