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subgenius said:
Doesn't look like it.
Proof that Iraq is in "material breach" of UNSC resolution 687 since inception.
- Thread starter rikzilla
- Start date
Doesn't look like it.
rikzilla
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Wow Sundog,
All that vitriol...comparisons with JK etc....
You guys are really convinced of your superiority...
That's all well and good...I'm an evil right wing war monger, but hey, guess what ...you haven't refuted a single thing I've posted.
Not a word.
Pretty skeptical huh?
-zilla
All that vitriol...comparisons with JK etc....
You guys are really convinced of your superiority...
That's all well and good...I'm an evil right wing war monger, but hey, guess what ...you haven't refuted a single thing I've posted.
Not a word.
Pretty skeptical huh?
-zilla
rikzilla
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sundog said:
Oh, Jesus. That one breaks the irony meter.
It is not an "ad-hominum" (sic) to point out that your views on the subject are to the right of virtually every commentator.
Nope,
It's a thread hijack. If I am indeed to the right of Hitler my information still stands unrefuted.
-z
rikzilla
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subgenius said:
Sure,
I can accept that answer, but only if you are a conscientious (sp?) objector. ie; you will not be party to war or killing under any circumstances.
It's not a smart stance...(were we all like that we would not exist as a free nation very long)...but it's a philosophy...and as such I could accept that you follow such a philosophy and are a decent citizen.
But to ignore a threat such as Saddam's is just plain dangerously stupid. The threat of Iraq was mostly ignored by Clinton for 8 years (read Mylroie)...and what we got was 9/11.
-z
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rikzilla said:Wow Sundog,
All that vitriol...comparisons with JK etc....
You guys are really convinced of your superiority...
That's all well and good...I'm an evil right wing war monger, but hey, guess what ...you haven't refuted a single thing I've posted.
Not a word.
Pretty skeptical huh?
-zilla
You miss all the points here.
"uninformed, deluded, traitorous, or stupid." This is not vitriolic? You don't consider calling someone unAmerican an insult, or saying peace activists are all commies? What do you expect in return when you use rhetoric like this?
I don't dispute your points - once more, you miss the point. I dispute your opinion that anyone whom they don't convince is either "uninformed, deluded, traitorous, or stupid."
You aren't debating a group here, you're talking to me. I did not bring up JK at all. JK and I have a good communications channel open, in fact.
I am not convinced I am superior to you. Such a consideration is completely immaterial to the argument. I simply think you are dead wrong to label people who disagree with you disloyal or Communists. Surely that's a simple enough point. As I pointed out, not even people fairly far to the right are willing to say something that inflammatory.
Sorry you think I hijacked your thread. Carry on.
By the way, having had a chance to review all the things Powell said, I am convinced now of the need to do something about Saddam. But I'm not going to insult the people who aren't convinced yet, and you certainly didn't help them make the case by just throwing insults around.
rikzilla
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sundog said:
Listen,
If uninformed, deluded, traitorous, or stupid strikes too close to home I'm quite sorry for you. I guess the very nicest thing I can say is that I consider you uninformed and leave it at that.
There are indeed these types of people in the anti-war movement. I live in DC and have attended several protests...I have first hand knowledge of what goes on in these protests. Sorry if you were offended, but if any of those shoes fit then be honest and wear them.
I'm glad that in your opinion you have finally seen enough evidence of Saddam's malfeasence...the problem I have is in losing patience with people who complain there is no evidence for war....(there has been ample evidence since 1995...the Kamal defection) If Clinton had taken care of business back then (this right wing nut voted for Clinton BTW)...it would have been easier to assemble a coalition and get rid of him then than it is now.
I loved Clinton...and supported him to the hilt....but his fubar'd middle east policy is the root of much of our problems in the region now.
-z
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rikzilla said:
Is this your idea of logic, of a reasoned argument? If so, don't waste your time feeling sorry for me.
Let's examine this in detail.
You call me a series of insulting names because I disagree with you; I object; and your response is:
If uninformed, deluded, traitorous, or stupid strikes too close to home I'm quite sorry for you.
Clearly a juvenile comeback, clearly an ad hominem, clearly intended to pile on the insults, and clearly showing your thought processes are not, shall we say, of a high quality.
The very nicest thing I can say about this sort of thinking is that you should probably consider running for office with a brain like that.
Excuse me? Are you seriously telling me that you can discern the politics and inner motivations of all antiwar people because you've seen a protest march?
You are still calling me a Communist... "be honest and wear them". A very odd thing for someone claiming to be a liberal to do. Deliberately provocative, and deliberately insulting. You would not say this to my face.
Glad to hear you weren't always a right wing nut.
Wow . . . my computer cannot find the site for a day and look what happens--I have to look for that "smoking gun story."
Anyways, what is important, in my mind {Sex?} Shhh!!! [That or cheese.--Ed.] Quiet!
What is important in my mind is:
Yes, folk, there are the deluded, those who are very unhappy about what my father did . . . he once apologized for his generation ruining "sex" and "drugs" for teens and college students---"everything mutated!"
Some pine for the days when protesting was a great way to meet chicks/dudes/not-quite-sure. It was a way to show independence.
That particular group is, however, small.
Similar is the group that has some political advantage it wishes to exploit.
On the other side, you have war mongerers.
These groups are the most obnoxious and gain the most attention.
Nevertheless, all groups have a right to speak in America.
The purpose of debate--particularly on a forum such as this that prides itself on skepticism--is to create and defend an argument {No it's not!} Yes it is! Too often on Lesser Boards [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.] the topics just degenerate into personal vendettas. Yyyyeeeessssss . . . sometimes even your Humble Narrator has descended . . . no, more like "slid" . . . into less-than-gentle prose . . . though I hope it a temporary aberation.
I did not need "convincing" from Powell, but I hope he was able to convince people who were not. That is the point. I listened to a democratic congressman (?) from Florida who was very anit-war on the radio whilst wandering about. He stated that Powell convinced him of the threat of Saadam. His one main concern now is he wants an answer from the Administration of "what then" happens after the war.
Good question.
The answer may be, "we are not sure, but we have to go in anyways." That some want a better answer is no vice.
Me mum has not been exactly supportive of my views on this situation. I fear I am destined to suffer the Thomas Kincaid painting in the will whilst me sis scarfs up the Waterford Crystal over this! Nevertheless, she did relent to buy Pollacks book--"$25 hardcover!!"--and has altered her views somewhat.
I, way back when, agreed with George the Elder, that the coalition could not survive him marching on Baghdad--not to mention "who" takes over, destabilizing a major country with Iran about, looking like conquerors, et cetera.
Now, I am beginning to agree with the "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" who think we should have just marched in.
Opinions change. It is a good thing.
Unless it involves developing an attraction to country western music; that remain pathological.
--J.D.
Anyways, what is important, in my mind {Sex?} Shhh!!! [That or cheese.--Ed.] Quiet!
What is important in my mind is:
Yes, folk, there are the deluded, those who are very unhappy about what my father did . . . he once apologized for his generation ruining "sex" and "drugs" for teens and college students---"everything mutated!"
Some pine for the days when protesting was a great way to meet chicks/dudes/not-quite-sure. It was a way to show independence.
That particular group is, however, small.
Similar is the group that has some political advantage it wishes to exploit.
On the other side, you have war mongerers.
These groups are the most obnoxious and gain the most attention.
Nevertheless, all groups have a right to speak in America.
The purpose of debate--particularly on a forum such as this that prides itself on skepticism--is to create and defend an argument {No it's not!} Yes it is! Too often on Lesser Boards [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.] the topics just degenerate into personal vendettas. Yyyyeeeessssss . . . sometimes even your Humble Narrator has descended . . . no, more like "slid" . . . into less-than-gentle prose . . . though I hope it a temporary aberation.
I did not need "convincing" from Powell, but I hope he was able to convince people who were not. That is the point. I listened to a democratic congressman (?) from Florida who was very anit-war on the radio whilst wandering about. He stated that Powell convinced him of the threat of Saadam. His one main concern now is he wants an answer from the Administration of "what then" happens after the war.
Good question.
The answer may be, "we are not sure, but we have to go in anyways." That some want a better answer is no vice.
Me mum has not been exactly supportive of my views on this situation. I fear I am destined to suffer the Thomas Kincaid painting in the will whilst me sis scarfs up the Waterford Crystal over this! Nevertheless, she did relent to buy Pollacks book--"$25 hardcover!!"--and has altered her views somewhat.
I, way back when, agreed with George the Elder, that the coalition could not survive him marching on Baghdad--not to mention "who" takes over, destabilizing a major country with Iran about, looking like conquerors, et cetera.
Now, I am beginning to agree with the "Monday Morning Quarterbacks" who think we should have just marched in.
Opinions change. It is a good thing.
Unless it involves developing an attraction to country western music; that remain pathological.
--J.D.
Doctor X:
"Unless it involves developing an attraction to country western music; that remain pathological."
___________________________
Country music that transcends the label:
Dwight Yoakam
kd lang
Lyle Lovett
Patsy Cline
You toymongering music chauvinist
"Only two kinds of music: good and bad."----can't remember who said that.
Otherwise your post is excellent.
"Unless it involves developing an attraction to country western music; that remain pathological."
___________________________
Country music that transcends the label:
Dwight Yoakam
kd lang
Lyle Lovett
Patsy Cline
You toymongering music chauvinist
"Only two kinds of music: good and bad."----can't remember who said that.
Otherwise your post is excellent.
Subgenius:
"Can lessbeans be country-western singers?"
Seriously, I have a respected mentor who claims he listens to two types of music "country and western!"
On the subject of good quotes, I believe U.S. Grant stated he knew only two songs, "one is Yankee Doodle and the other isn't."
You are now hearby sentenced to listen to Sean Hannity and the excretable over-schmaltzing "Let Freedom Ring" song!
--J.D.
"Can lessbeans be country-western singers?"
Seriously, I have a respected mentor who claims he listens to two types of music "country and western!"
On the subject of good quotes, I believe U.S. Grant stated he knew only two songs, "one is Yankee Doodle and the other isn't."
You are now hearby sentenced to listen to Sean Hannity and the excretable over-schmaltzing "Let Freedom Ring" song!
--J.D.
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You guys are hijacking Rik's thread! 
Although I admit "lessbeans" are more fun to talk about.
Although I admit "lessbeans" are more fun to talk about.
I will try, very hard, to avoid quoting South Park . . . "I'm gonna be a lesbian, too!"
"No way, dude! I'm gonna be a better lesbian!'
[Stop it!--Ed.]
Yes . . . so was Hank Williams, Sr. a lesbian?
[STOP IT! Else we will cue Ackey Breaky Heart.--Ed.]
No!
Right . . . yes . . . well, I would like to see this reported in the major news.
---J.D.
"What are you doing, Cartman?"
"My maaaaaam said if I wanted to be a lesbian I had to learn to lick carpet."
[Right! Clear off!--Ed.]
"No way, dude! I'm gonna be a better lesbian!'
[Stop it!--Ed.]
Yes . . . so was Hank Williams, Sr. a lesbian?
[STOP IT! Else we will cue Ackey Breaky Heart.--Ed.]
No!
Right . . . yes . . . well, I would like to see this reported in the major news.
---J.D.
"What are you doing, Cartman?"
"My maaaaaam said if I wanted to be a lesbian I had to learn to lick carpet."
[Right! Clear off!--Ed.]
rikzilla
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sundog said:
Wrong again.
I used the word "If"....you stepped right in with both feet. I stand by my opinion. You may say what you wish about me...you have compared me to every vile personage you could conjure...but I have not risen to your bait. You also infer that I am a coward and would not give my opinion to your face but you are wrong. If you care to come to DC I will meet you and settle that question in person. I have recently returned from attending the Amaz!ng Meeting....and met several of the people I have disagreed with in the past. The meetings there were cordial...we agree to disagree and go on about our business. I would hope that you would be able to be as civil. Even so, if you wish to come beat me up, suit yourself. I will PM you with a time and a place as long as you do not expect me to travel out of town for my beating.
Look..perhaps you are a communist. I don't consider that as an insult to you...if you are one then admit it and get on with life. I have not just seen a protest march....I witnessed a huge one every year for the last 4 or 5 during the annual IMF-World Bank meetings. The protest march against the coming war was not just a protest march...it was The Largest Anti-War March In Washington Since Vietnam!!!!! (As billed by A.N.S.W.E.R.) Guess what? It was nothing more than the same collection of communists and masked anarchists that we have seen so many times before. (Well this time there was a militant pro-Palestinian group...and a few more of the usual hippies)
Believe me....there comes a time when even a skeptic has seen enough.
-zilla
rikzilla
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Well now that I've shown that UNSC res 687 has been breached repeatedly by Iraq, we now have the issue of UNSC res 1441 ...which has merely been breached repeatedly since it's inception last Nov.
All this only points to the continuing uselessness of the UN.
It was this very same reluctance to take decisive action that led to the dissolution of the League of Nations. The LoN refused to do anything about Italian aggression in Ethiopia. If the UN doesn't take action to insure it's resolutions are no longer ignored, and soon, they will find themselves on the very same ash heap of history.
Check out the list of previous resolutions that Iraq has blatantly disregarded. It seems the UN has already decended into irrelevance....
How is having a UN that is this weak and rudderless better than having no UN at all?
-zilla
All this only points to the continuing uselessness of the UN.
It was this very same reluctance to take decisive action that led to the dissolution of the League of Nations. The LoN refused to do anything about Italian aggression in Ethiopia. If the UN doesn't take action to insure it's resolutions are no longer ignored, and soon, they will find themselves on the very same ash heap of history.
Check out the list of previous resolutions that Iraq has blatantly disregarded. It seems the UN has already decended into irrelevance....
How is having a UN that is this weak and rudderless better than having no UN at all? -zilla
Britain Admits That Much of Its Report on Iraq Came From Magazines
By SARAH LYALL
LONDON, Feb. 7 — The British government admitted today that large sections of its most recent report on Iraq, praised by Secretary of State Colin L. Powell as "a fine paper" in his speech to the United Nations on Wednesday, had been lifted from magazines and academic journals.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/08/international/europe/08BRIT.html?th
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Oooops!
By SARAH LYALL
LONDON, Feb. 7 — The British government admitted today that large sections of its most recent report on Iraq, praised by Secretary of State Colin L. Powell as "a fine paper" in his speech to the United Nations on Wednesday, had been lifted from magazines and academic journals.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/08/international/europe/08BRIT.html?th
--------------
Oooops!