Pre-Fertilization Mutations?

[Kumar]

And, Oh, those two are neither bases nor acids, i.e give nothing on pH. There are two acidic amino acids and three basic amino acids. BTW, the amino acids are not acids in proteins.

Proteins that are faulty in any way are destroyed. End of story. No the chromatin is very seldom damged, and if it is it doesn't really matter. Small errors pass without any problems, major damage kills the cell.

Thanks. Can you tell more about sulphur containing amino acids in chromosomes. I couldn't found these in histones but may be there in non histones protiens.

Yes, three amino acids are basic: Arginine, Histidine, Lysine & two are acidic : Aspartic acid, Glutamic acid.


What do you mean by "Small errors pass without any problems"? Does it mean that small errors in chromosomes(non DNA part) are possible which can pass in to next generation?

 

[Kumar]

"Histones: Proteins rich in lysine and arginine( basic amino acids)

Histones are subject to posttranslational modification Posttranslational modification means the chemical modification of a protein after its translation. It is one of the later steps in protein biosynthesis for many proteins.

Histones are water-soluble.

Histones have been evolutionarily conserved.

Non-Histones: non-histone chromosomal proteins
Chromatin consists of DNA, histones and a very heterogeneous group of other proteins, that include DNA polymerases, regulator proteins, etc. They are often generically referred to as non-histone proteins, or acidic proteins, to distinguish them from the basic histones.The scaffold structure is made of nonhistone proteins which lowers the melting temperature when compared to pure DNA. It is concluded that chromatin non-histone proteins contain different fractions of proteins which are causing stabilizing and destabilizing effect on DNA structure."

I have given above few aspects related to Histones & Non-Histones protiens as available on various sites. Acid, base & tempreture control may be related to these protiens. Can't these be destabilized causing genetic/hereditary changes on their exposure to imbalanced environmental factors i.e. tempreture, alkaline & acidic atmosphere as present in various parts of reproductive systems?

 

[Zep]

Kumar, do you have any worthwhile point by quoting this stuff? We aren't going to explain it to you again, you need to explain your thinking to us.

 

[Goshawk]

Isn't it obvious? He's still on about pH.

Acid, base & tempreture control may be related to these protiens. Can't these be destabilized on their exposure to imbalanced temp., alkaline & acidic atmosphere as present in various parts of reproductive systems?

Thus, Kumar's theory, "If the reproductive system has the wrong pH--if it is too acid or too alkaline--it will cause mutations in the egg or sperm, which mutations will include diabetes. So, to prevent the egg or sperm from becoming mutated, create the correct pH environment in the reproductive tract."

And from there, it's just a short step to "create the correct pH environment using tissue salts".

So our challenge would be to show him (a) that the reproductive tract doesn't have a separate pH from the rest of the body, and (b) that tissue salts can't affect the body's pH.

I believe we have tried explaining (b) before. Repeatedly. Now, if you will excuse me, I have something to do instead of explaining many many many very basic biological facts to someone who isn't interested in hearing them...

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I pay this guy (his name is Chuck) to hit me over the head with a large mallet. It's easier than engaging Kumar in conversation, and has the same effect.

Plus Chuck can use the money.

 

[Kumar]

It can be by very minor change in internal envirionment. Whole body environment or differant part's environment can do somethind till we are much adapt to these. Outer environmental changes due to modern lifestyles can effect some optimal ph & tempreture--making us bit differant. All imbalances may mean mental stress>>>imbalanced pH/ temp. We may have to understand here ' EVEN MINOR CHANGES'.

""So our challenge would be to show him (a) that the reproductive tract doesn't have a separate pH from the rest of the body, and (b) that tissue salts can't affect the body's pH.""

Why you are just interested in fights/contradict me by any means?

 

[Goshawk]

Why you are just interested in fights/contradict me by any means?

Because--God knows why--we're trying to educate you?

Because we view it as our job to help fight ignorance?

Because you display such a continuing ignorance of the most basic Science Facts that we feel impelled to respond to your half-baked theories with Real Science? To set the record straight?


What do you expect us to do when you come back with yet another "take" on your pH/tissue salts theory? You never come in here and say, "Please teach me about this." You always say, "Here is how I think it works, tell me it's right", and then when we tell you it's not right, you get huffy and claim we're picking on you because we represent Mainstream Science which has always suppressed the alternative viewpoint, they didn't listen to Galileo either blah blah blah...

Why are we "interested in fights"? Because that's what the whole JREF website, and forums, are about, Kumar. Hellooooo? We're ALL here solely to "fight ignorance", yours included. We're not one of your homeopathy message boards where you can post whatever kind of unscientific claptrap you want and have folks respond politely.

 

[Kumar]

Because--God knows why--we're trying to educate you?

Good words. Just remember it always. Something good may be there if it is God's initiations.

'Pls do fight for the right, but not for the 'might/mine'

 

[Zep]

Good words. Just remember it always. Something good may be there if it is God's initiations.

I think God is asking you to pay attention and take something in. Quite a few of the highly educated people here who are trying to help you learn also have a belief in God. So if that's your criteria for who to listen to, you better get your ears tuned in and your brain switched on ASAP.

'Pls do fight for the right, but not for the 'might/mine'

Would that mean YOU might care to back down from your silly stance and listen to people who know a lot more about this subject than you and I put together? I would, wouldn't you? People all over the world pay thousands of dollars every year to get an education in medicine as good as this - you're getting it for free. So it might pay you to listen up for a change.

 

[Kumar]

Basic genetic material: Chromosomes which consists DNA, Histones & non histones protiens. These protiens: Histones & non histones protiens seems to be environmental sensitive(pH, temp.) I can't say about env. senstiveness of DNA.

During transport of gemete sperm, changes in environmental factors can destablize these Histones & non histones protiens leading to destablising the fetus. Can't be possible?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Basic genetic material: Chromosomes which consists DNA, Histones & non histones protiens. These protiens: Histones & non histones protiens seems to be environmental sensitive(pH, temp.) I can't say about env. senstiveness of DNA.

During transport of gemete sperm, changes in environmental factors can destablize these Histones & non histones protiens leading to destablising the fetus. Can't be possible?

Kumar, you are focussed on "imbalances" and "instabilities". This is medieval medicine. In the old days, it was thought that all disease came from imbalances vetween a few substances. Today we know better. There ARE in fact diseases that come from imbalances, but in general, the living organism is very hard to knowk out of balance. There are so many self-stabilizing mechanisms in place, because otherwise, we would have become extinct long ago.

So, no, DNA does not become "destabilized".

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Kumar, you are focussed on "imbalances" and "instabilities". This is medieval medicine. In the old days, it was thought that all disease came from imbalances vetween a few substances. Today we know better. There ARE in fact diseases that come from imbalances, but in general, the living organism is very hard to knowk out of balance. There are so many self-stabilizing mechanisms in place, because otherwise, we would have become extinct long ago.

So, no, DNA does not become "destabilized".

Hans

Mr.Hans,

I am also asking about destabilization of chromosomes due to destabilization in Histones & non histones by enc. factors.

 

[MRC_Hans]

And, the answer is the same.

Anyhow, as I have tried to explain earlier, you are barking up the wrong tree. We know that diabetes is inherited BECAUSE WE SEE IT RUN IN FAMILIES. If it was caused by mutations, we would NOT se it run in families.

The very fact that we can see it is a genetic trait invalidates the idea that it is caused by mutation.

Edited to clarify: Of curse, at some stage, it WAS caused by a mutation, and such mutations might occur again from time to time, but if the reason was RECURRENT mutations, we would not see it run in families.

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Mr.Hans,

Lot many details about The genetic of Diabetes are given on this ADA LINK. However I am more concered about modern rise in it as related to maternal side & environmental factors.

 

[BillHoyt]

Mr.Hans,

Lot many details about The genetic of Diabetes are given on this ADA LINK. However I am more concered about modern rise in it as related to maternal side & environmental factors.

Again, Kumar, the "modern rise" is a rise in the consequence of the genetic trait. About the same proportion of people had the same genetics 100 years ago. When coupled with modern eating habits in certain countries, the disease manifests earlier.

 

[Kumar]

Again, Kumar, the "modern rise" is a rise in the consequence of the genetic trait. About the same proportion of people had the same genetics 100 years ago. When coupled with modern eating habits in certain countries, the disease manifests earlier.

Yes, it is commonly thinked off concept. But modern lifestyle & environmental factors can also cause modern rise intrauterine/maternal side effect OR any possible change in sperms structure due to any change in environment in testis or during their travel to OVIDUCT. I think whatever happens which causes this modern rise--that mostly may be pre-birth & factors after birth may somewhat be less responsible as usually thought.

 

[Vikram]

Kumar,

Did Rhett Butler really not give a damn?