Plane Crash In DC

JayUtah said:
That's an astoundingly easy thing to do with aircraft at night.


This is the real problem. The helicopters in question are based on the other side of the approach from their ordinary operations area (i.e., metropolitan DC). We have a similar problem at my international airport: the Air Force operations areas are across the northern approaches from the base. However, in the Reagan Airport case the distances and altitudes required to deconflict the traffic are much, much smaller.

As usual, Blancolirio offers very good commentary from an expert point of view, and avoids unnecessary speculation. What he doesn't touch on (but probably will when he can) is the capacity creep that has plagued both the military and civilian traffic. This is an inherently gnarly traffic-control problem, and under pressure from government officials there has been a steady relaxation of ordinary capacity constraints. While we will almost certainly identify errors on the part of various humans involved, this accident could be considered inevitable.
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Why not move the helicopters
 
bigred said:
Using this tragedy to make lame jokes and snotty political digs...I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Stay classy.
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Like Donnie Diapers blaming DEI, and Pete Buttigieg for this tragedy? This racist, misogynist, felonius mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊ can't even stop his racist, misogynist, felonius mother ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ mouth from defaming others with vile political digs in a time of tragedy. Digs that stupid, vapid, credulous, cultist U.S. voters will lap up.

You can ◊◊◊◊ right off with your nonsense.
 
Andy_Ross said:
REPORTER: I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash

TRUMP: Because I have common sense, ok? And unfortunately a lot of people don't
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This is incredibly irresponsible. Aside from the tone-deafness of the remarks, a high-level elected official with no relevant experience should not be placing blame on individuals in the absence of actual evidence of causality. Not only does this risk putting innocent people at risk of mob reprisals, it creates an incentive to find for operator error instead of addressing the much more likely systemic causes of this accident.
 
JayUtah said:
This is incredibly irresponsible. Aside from the tone-deafness of the remarks, a high-level elected official with no relevant experience should not be placing blame on individuals in the absence of actual evidence of causality. Not only does this risk putting innocent people at risk of mob reprisals, it creates an incentive to find for operator error instead of addressing the much more likely systemic causes of this accident.
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But you're using common sense. Don't you know that The Orange Dirtbag has more common sense than anyone?
 
Buttigieg says

Pete Buttigieg
@PeteButtigieg

Despicable. As families grieve, Trump should be leading, not lying. We put safety first, drove down close calls, grew Air Traffic Control, and had zero commercial airline crash fatalities out of millions of flights on our watch.
President Trump now oversees the military and the FAA. One of his first acts was to fire and suspend some of the key personnel who helped keep our skies safe. Time for the President to show actual leadership and explain what he will do to prevent this from happening again.
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JayUtah said:
This is incredibly irresponsible. Aside from the tone-deafness of the remarks, a high-level elected official with no relevant experience should not be placing blame on individuals in the absence of actual evidence of causality. Not only does this risk putting innocent people at risk of mob reprisals, it creates an incentive to find for operator error instead of addressing the much more likely systemic causes of this accident.
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We all know straight, white males can't be to blame for anything that goes wrong.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Why not move the helicopters
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Obviously that would solve this problem. The helicopters in question are used to transport VIPs to, from, and within the center of government. Moving them closer to the center is deemed unacceptable because no one wants a helipad in the middle of the beautiful District of Columbia. Moving them farther away increases response time. This is pretty much a case of powerful people getting their way at the cost of safety.
 
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy: "Obviously, it is not standard to have aircraft collide. I want to be clear on that."
 
How can anyone trust the NTSB’s eventual findings if it’s been purged of qualified career investigators and filled instead with loyalists who’ll do everything they can to ensure their boss doesn’t look bad?
 
Andy_Ross said:
We all know straight, white males can't be to blame for anything that goes wrong.
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That, or a system pushed to the brink of failure by the same people who now want to place all the blame on individuals.

This is not an unreal fear. I'm sure many here are familiar with the midair collision over Überlingen, Germany, after which the controller on duty at the time was murdered by a relative of one of the passengers lost in the accident. Donald Trump's indifference to fact and his proven desire to stir up violence for his own ends may place some of the ATC officers in credible danger.
 
Andy_Ross said:
REPORTER: I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash

TRUMP: Because I have common sense, ok? And unfortunately a lot of people don't
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When I heard about that tragic accident 10 hours ago I was actually tempted to write here something like 'Trump blaming Biden, Hillary, Dems, transpeople in the military etc. for this in 3....2....1'
But then I thought that this would be even too idiotic for him.

Well...
 
Andy_Ross said:
REPORTER: I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash

TRUMP: Because I have common sense, ok? And unfortunately a lot of people don't
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I don't know how we're going to handle four more years of this. This dirtbag hasn't even been back in office two weeks!
 
ALEXANDER: The implication that this policy is new or that it stems from efforts that began under Biden is demonstrably false.
TRUMP: Who said that, you?
ALEXANDER: It's been on the FAA's website since 2013. Why didn't you change the policy during your first administration
 
JayUtah said:
That's an astoundingly easy thing to do with aircraft at night.


This is the real problem. The helicopters in question are based on the other side of the approach from their ordinary operations area (i.e., metropolitan DC). We have a similar problem at my international airport: the Air Force operations areas are across the northern approaches from the base. However, in the Reagan Airport case the distances and altitudes required to deconflict the traffic are much, much smaller.

As usual, Blancolirio offers very good commentary from an expert point of view, and avoids unnecessary speculation. What he doesn't touch on (but probably will when he can) is the capacity creep that has plagued both the military and civilian traffic. This is an inherently gnarly traffic-control problem, and under pressure from government officials there has been a steady relaxation of ordinary capacity constraints. While we will almost certainly identify errors on the part of various humans involved, this accident could be considered inevitable.
Click to expand...
Reagen has always been a nightmare for ATCs.
 
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