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Plane crash differences

kc440_ said:
I can't change my opinion because I think those photos are doctored up. This has nothing to do with you. But I'd like to see the video.

kc440
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What makes you think the photos are doctored?

... besides the voice in your head screaming, "THEY'RE DOCTORED!!!"
 
kc440_ said:
I can't change my opinion because I think those photos are doctored up. This has nothing to do with you. But I'd like to see the video.

kc440
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must be nice to live in your own little world where anything you disagree with is fake
 
kc440_ said:
I can't change my opinion because I think those photos are doctored up. This has nothing to do with you. But I'd like to see the video.

kc440
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kc, it was a little further down:

apathoid said:
Oh well, I guess kc has run off for now. Here is the video I mentioned. It rates about a 9 on the :cool: -scale.

Its a much longer clip than Discovery Channel one and shows a multitude of slow-motion angles. Its amazing that a 30 ton piece of machinery can get turned into confetti.
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kc440 says: "I can't change my opinion...."

Well, see, right there's the problem, kc. Your opinion means more to you than the truth.
 
kc440_ said:
The engine part didn't belong to the type of airplane. How can you call those little bits of aluminum a part of a plane. A painted missile, all right.

kc440 :boggled:
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You are wrong.

First, an important message from someone who was at the Pentagon on 9/11. Please take it to heart. http://tinyurl.com/f4ykj

There were dozens of eyewitnesses accounts to the crash. Note that many of these witnesses specifically mention seeing a huge American Airlines jet hit the Pentagon. http://tinyurl.com/ojcwl http://tinyurl.com/ksnb9

Firefighter Alan Wallace’s account: http://tinyurl.com/p6gmm

“We discovered cockpit wreckage at our feet while attempting to rescue people from a Navy operations area." http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon-email_20020316.html

“Shaeffer stood on a service road that circled the Pentagon between the B and C rings. A chunk of the 757's nose cone and front landing gear lay on the pavement a few feet away, resting against the B Ring wall.” http://www.hamptonroads.com/pilotonline/special/911/pentagon3.html

More first-person accounts: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3069699/
http://tinyurl.com/h4zaa

Flight 77 Flight Data Recorder report: http://tinyurl.com/fhm32

The flight 77 Flight path analysis, which contains detailed information: http://tinyurl.com/mtnvz

“Study of Autopilot, Navigation Equipment, and Fuel Consumption Activity Based on United Airlines Flight 93 and American Airlines Flight 77 Digital Flight Data Recorder Information” http://tinyurl.com/j46q4

An avionics expert weighs in on the flight 77 autopilot data: http://tinyurl.com/z2zc9

The Air Traffic Control transcripts: http://tinyurl.com/o5m35

Longer video clips from the Pentagon parking lot cameras: http://tinyurl.com/gwqob

“Summary Presentation of damage to Pentagon and location of bodies found inside.“ (PC download) http://tinyurl.com/juld8

Summary of Flight 77 depicting the identity of pilots and flight attendants, seat assignments of passen-gers, and seats from which telephone calls were made: http://tinyurl.com/qus34

More on the phone calls, from the 9/11 Commission Report: http://tinyurl.com/onttz

Of course, for anyone interested in the damage to the Pentagon, the ASCE's Pentagon Building Per-formance Report is essential reading: http://tinyurl.com/o4px6 From page 35: "The width of the severe damage to the west facade of the Pentagon was approximately 120 ft (from column lines 8 to 20).

The hole made by flight 77 extends along the wing line left, and especially, right, of the fuselage hole. It is not a cookie-cutter hole: that simply cannot happen with a reinforced concrete building. Note in the following picture the total destruction of masonry and the reinforced columns broken and bent in the direction of impact : http://tinyurl.com/q67lv

Numerous photos of interior damage in this report: http://www.aesvn.org/resources/Pentagon-Shoring.pdf

No debris on the lawn? That couldn't be less true. Why don't CTs show these photos?
http://tinyurl.com/nowok http://tinyurl.com/rklbc http://tinyurl.com/oa7zx http://tinyurl.com/s9hgl http://tinyurl.com/necvb

Many debris photos at 911myths.com: http://tinyurl.com/lzcrd

Here’s the account of the C-130 pilot who saw both the flight 77 attack and the aftermath of flight 93: http://tinyurl.com/l98un

Photos from witness Steve Riskus, seconds after the crash (he gives his contact info, but be nice: he gets a lot of email): http://tinyurl.com/nuqzq

The remains of every flight 77 victim but one (a two-year-old) was recovered and positively identified by forensics experts. Personal effects of many survived the crash and fires and were returned to the victims' families. Articles on Pentagon disaster morgue operations and victim identification: http://tinyurl.com/qqkul and http://tinyurl.com/h2kn

The only two brothers who died at the Pentagon on 9/11 were the al-Hamzis. Remains of two brothers were identified by DNA:

"The DNA results strengthened the hypothesis that two
of the terrorists were brothers, as indicated by other
evidence. Two of the terrorist STR profiles aboard the AA
Flight 77 gave a sibling index greater than 500. To further
test the hypothesis of maternal relatedness, AFDIL
sequenced the HVI and HVII regions of mtDNA for these
individuals. The sequences generated did match in HVI
and HVII, which is consistent with a maternal relationship
between the two men." http://tinyurl.com/y9ezjj (page 83)
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A brief look at the "A missile hit the Pentagon" theory:
1) No missile was seen or heard by anyone. All eyewitnesses report a passenger jet crash.
2) No missile debris was found.
3) Missiles do not carry thousands of gallons of jet fuel.
4) Missiles do not carry the remains and personal belongings of flight 77 passengers.
5) Missiles do not carry tons of 757 debris.
6) In the diagram linked below, the yellow dots indicate the broken light poles. The red line indicates the path a missile would have to take in order to knock them over. Or, the missile would have to have a wingspan of over 100 feet. The Tomahawk Cruise missile that LC suggests hit the Pentagon has a wingspan of 8 feet 9 inches (2.67 m). Light pole diagram: http://tinyurl.com/jemr9

An examination of numerous Pentagon/flight 77 questions at 9/11myths.com: http://tinyurl.com/z434u

A detailed examination of the Jet engine pieces found at the Pentagon: http://tinyurl.com/gy2zl

What about missile defenses at the Pentagon? There were none. Some people may recall that on 9/11/02, portable missile batteries were placed near the Pentagon in case of an “anniversary attack.” In his book Against All Enemies, Richard Clarke writes,
The Secret Service and Customs had teamed up in Atlanta to provide some rudimentary air defense against an aircraft flying into the Olympic Stadium. They did so again during the subsequent National Security Special Events and they agreed to create a permanent air defense unit to protect Washington.

Unfortunately, those two federal law enforcement agencies were housed in the Treasury Department and its leadership did not want to pay for such a mission or run the liability risks of shooting down the wrong aircraft. Treasury nixed the air defense unit, and my attempts within the White House to overfule them came to naught.

The idea of aircraft attacking in Washington seemed remote to many people and the risks of shooting down aircraft in a city were thought to be far too high. Moreover, the opponents of our plan argued, the Air Force could always scramble fighter aircraft to protect Washington if there were a problem. On occasions when aircraft were hijacked (and in one case when we erroneously believed a Northwest flight had been seized), the Air Force did intercept the airliners with fighter jets.

We succeeded only in getting Secret Service the permission to continue to examine air defense options, including the possibility of placing missile units near the White House. Most people who heard about our ef-forts to create some air defense system in case terrorists tried to fly aircraft into the Capitol, the White House, or the Pentagon simply thought we were nuts.
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(The Pentagon is only about 4,000 feet from, and almost directly in line with, one of the runways at Ronald Reagan International Airport.)

And how about the hundreds of first responders and investigators who were on the scene the first day? Were they all lying or deceived? Why not talk to them? Here are a few suggestions for contacts:

the Pentagon 3-person Crash Response Team
the Arlington County Fire Department
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington, VA Police Department
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue
Montgomery County Fire & Rescue
Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department
the Arlington County SWAT Team
the Virginia State Police,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams
the National Transportation Safety Board Investigators
American Airlines representatives
the HHS National Medical Response Team
the Pentagon security staff
the DOD Honor Guard
the Pentagon Medical Unit
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service
Four U.S. Army Chaplains
One Catholic Priest (Stephen McGraw)
the FBI Hazmat Team
the EPA Hazmat Team
the FEMA Incident Support Team
the FEMA Emergency Response Team
the FEMA Disaster Field Office
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County
the National Naval Medical Center CCRF
Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the U.S. Army 54th Quartermaster Company Mortuary Staff
the U.S. Army 311th Quartermaster Company Mortuary Staff
the U.S. Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
the American Red Cross
the United States Secret Service
the C-130H crew

For more information on first responders to the Pentagon attack, see the “Arlington County After-Action report on the response to the September 11 terrorist attack on the Pentagon" http://tinyurl.com/pmlda

September 11 Online Memorial:The Pentagon: http://tinyurl.com/ezov4
 
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kc440_ said:
I can't change my opinion because I think those photos are doctored up. This has nothing to do with you. But I'd like to see the video.

kc440
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Duh, that's the same F-4 that is in the YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3DDZU1C-hc

I thought you guys believed everything you see on YouTube! Here's a longer version with several angles in slow motion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB4IEa7jTJw

You can see the same video here:

http://www.break.com/articles/concreteplane.html

and here:

http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/video-gallery/index.html#rocketsled

The test was conducted way back in 1988 but I'm sure conspiracy theorists will still think it was faked. Faking video 13 years in advance is actually evidence that proves the 9/11 conspiracy is real!
 
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Gravy said:
6) In the diagram linked below, the yellow dots indicate the broken light poles. The red line indicates the path a missile would have to take in order to knock them over. Or, the missile would have to have a wingspan of over 100 feet. The Tomahawk Cruise missile that LC suggests hit the Pentagon has a wingspan of 8 feet 9 inches (2.67 m). Light pole diagram: http://tinyurl.com/jemr9
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It was obviously one of those top-secret government pinball missiles.
 
kc440_ said:
The film the Pentagon released, showed something coming in at ground level. Most likely, a missile.

kc440
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Yes of course, the whole conspiracy and cover up, by the government, of 9/11 has been ruined by a video they themselves released! :boggled:

IMO one of the videos released by the Pentagon does show the plane, it's even on LC2E when they zoom in on the white smoke trail. Here is a screen shot I made directly from LC2E with my dodgy attempt at an outline around where I think it is...

Flight77.jpg


Also most people don't see a plane, I think I can see a plane, but ultimately who cares because the evidence is still overwhelming that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon!
 
einsteen said:
If the parking camera had 25 fps both CT'ers and debunkers would be happy.
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Yeah in an ideal world it would have been HDTV quality with sound but alas because security cameras are recording 24hours a day they have to reduce the quality, frame rate, sometimes use black and white, and sometimes have no sound to reduce the storage needs.
 
kc440_ said:
The wings would shear off. There'd be an explosion. Fire. People dying. And there would be recognizable airplane parts.

kc440
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So you DON'T have any idea ?

The engine part didn't belong to the type of airplane. How can you call those little bits of aluminum a part of a plane. A painted missile, all right.
Click to expand...

Are you going to bring forth some evidence, or just continue to say you can't believe it ?

I can't change my opinion because I think those photos are doctored up.
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Convenient. Any and all evidence is ignored, either way. Are you going to look at this subject seriously, Kc ?
 
Saying all plane crashes are alike is like saying all car crashes are alike, more or less. The damage all depends on speed, angle of impact, what is impacted, rate of deceleration, etc. I notice the OP posted no details about any of that - which is rather amazingly naive or else just blatantly manipulative.
 
kc440_ said:
The wings would shear off. There'd be an explosion. Fire. People dying. And there would be recognizable airplane parts.

kc440
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What a load of nonsense, when the second plane crashed into the WTC did we see huge chunks of it flying out the other side? No, because as the plane crashed into the WTC it got shredded by all the steel columns etc, the only substantial parts of the plane that flew out the other side were the engines (I can't remember if both or only one did).

When the plane hit the Pentagon it would have looked very similar, the plane would have just disappeared into the building, most was shredded but large substantial parts such as the engine casing, engine turbines, and landing gear etc were found.

Also as we know the FDR was also recovered from the Pentagon crash site, I suppose this was planted as part of the cover up though, if you ask a CT'er that is!

To give you an idea how fast the plane was traveling as it hit the Pentagon have a look at this video of an RAF Harrier fly over in Afghanistan (Warning harsh language)...

 
Spins said:
What a load of nonsense, when the second plane crashed into the WTC did we see huge chunks of it flying out the other side? No
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youd think this would be a logical argument for a plane at the pentagon, but somehow i think kc will see this as evidence for missiles at the WTC
 
The video

apathoid said:
Oh well, I guess kc has run off for now. Here is the video I mentioned. It rates about a 9 on the :cool: -scale.

Its a much longer clip than Discovery Channel one and shows a multitude of slow-motion angles. Its amazing that a 30 ton piece of machinery can get turned into confetti.
Click to expand...

I have been having trouble with my computer, so I could not access this site yesterday.

I am very impressed by your film. The ground below the plane had to be scorched? The lawn at the Pentagon wasn't. But, if your film was the real thing, I am amazed.

kc440
 
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