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Pizzagate

Abooga said:
If a sufficient number of people believe it´s unicorn poop and there´s the risk that they may take up... magical swords, (I guess, in this metaphor) and kill someone because of it, you might want to analyze the DNA, after all..
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Whatever the results of your analysis, it will only prove that the unicorn is real. They now have ammo to use against the "it's only a pinecone" detractors. Also, they investigated the DNA tester and they use well know unicorn symbology in their profile, proof they are trying to hide the conspiracy.

When logic, reason, and evidence have no effect on these conspiracies, why would throwing more logic, reason, and evidence at them improve the situation?
 
Abooga said:
What to do? Dismiss it as nonsense, stop talking about it, like some people seem to want to do in this forum?

Or check the "claims", look for false data, point out the lack of real proof etc.

You decide.
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Let's dismiss it as nonsense and explain why it's nonsense. The main point is that there's no evidence of wrongdoing. The CT consists entirely of rather thinly stretched innuendo based on a politically-motivated paranoid fantasy. There's not even anything that requires more than a "so what?" to debunk.

What do you expect from us? Pizzagate is a lot of silly noise from silly nutbars, and hardly worth much effort. This is the Trump era -- truth is obsolete; expect the BS to fly.
 
RussDill said:
Whatever the results of your analysis, it will only prove that the unicorn is real. They now have ammo to use against the "it's only a pinecone" detractors. Also, they investigated the DNA tester and they use well know unicorn symbology in their profile, proof they are trying to hide the conspiracy.

When logic, reason, and evidence have no effect on these conspiracies, why would throwing more logic, reason, and evidence at them improve the situation?
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Yep. This is what's being addressed by "You can't reason somebody out of something they didn't reason themselves into in the first place."

There's also poisoning the well and genetic fallacy to deal with. There's a classic example of a chiropractor being shown Applied Kinesiology does not work by asking him to participate in a double-blinded experiment (DBE). The results showed it didn't work, so his reply was "Since I know AK works but DBE showed AK does not work - this was a test of double blinded experimentation, and it failed. Now you know why we don't use DBE, it's clearly useless."

By the same token, we have "Since I know the conspiracy is real, and the NYTimes journalists wrote a series of articles saying it is a hoax, this demonstrates to me that the NYTimes is incompetent or biased, and therefore useless as a source of information. I will persuade everybody in our community to stop reading it immediately."
 
blutoski said:
There's also poisoning the well and genetic fallacy to deal with. There's a classic example of a chiropractor being shown Applied Kinesiology does not work by asking him to participate in a double-blinded experiment (DBE). The results showed it didn't work, so his reply was "Since I know AK works but DBE showed AK does not work - this was a test of double blinded experimentation, and it failed. Now you know why we don't use DBE, it's clearly useless."
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That's congitive dissonance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance#Belief_disconfirmation_paradigm
 
Abooga said:
If a sufficient number of people believe it´s unicorn poop and there´s the risk that they may take up... magical swords, (I guess, in this metaphor) and kill someone because of it, you might want to analyze the DNA, after all..
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The DNA analysis comes back PINECONE.

How many of those people who, in your words, "believe" it is unicorn poop will now change their mind and believe it is a pinecone?

How many will believe the test was falsified and declare it more proof of cover up?
 
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Abooga said:
Apparently some "fake news" have been fabricated, perhaps for some obscure pro-Trump or whatever agenda. Similarly, these conspiracy theories, pizzagate etc. may be similarly orchestrated*. One has to wonder whether so much effort of digging out "connections" and "evidence" of a conspiracy are just the product of a group of idle autistic loners or the product of a foreign intelligence agency intending to destabilize the US (since Trump has already won but the CT keeps going). Is it such a stretch to imagine Russia or China wanting to stir things up in the US, propagating and feeding these CT-s? These things are becoming mainstream, the danger is already there...

Is this a CT that I can get you interested in? I think it´s a real danger. A good segment of the population already doesn´t believe in mainstream media and think there is a large conspiracy to feed people lies and support an elite that has things to hide, either corruption or something more far-fetched... Society is being polarized. What would happen if this keeps growing and at some point, with the great resources that no doubt China or Russia has, they decide to create, this time undeniable evidence of whatever conspiracy they choose? Imagine, a video, created with state of the art special effects of Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump participating in a Satanic mass or any other thing that gets people to revolt... how many people would take guns and take to the streets? One already did, and pizzagate is not that believable anyway...

*I distinguish between fake news and conspiracy theories, even if they are being conflated, lately.
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Post 616.

Okay, you are reaching.

Apparently some "fake news" have been fabricated, perhaps for some obscure pro-Trump or whatever agenda. Similarly, these conspiracy theories, pizzagate etc. may be similarly orchestrated*.
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The origin of Pizzagate has already been covered in this thread. It is not fake news, it is a CT spread by morons that Neo Nazis, I mean Alt-Right social media have latched onto because they are equally deep thinkers.

One has to wonder whether so much effort of digging out "connections" and "evidence" of a conspiracy are just the product of a group of idle autistic loners or the product of a foreign intelligence agency intending to destabilize the US (since Trump has already won but the CT keeps going).
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Oh not at all, it IS the product of inbred, autistic, basement-dwellers. Hostile foreign services would not risk WAR with the United States over something as infantile as Pizzagate.

Is this a CT that I can get you interested in?
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No, not unless Gay Bigfoot is behind it.


A good segment of the population already doesn´t believe in mainstream media and think there is a large conspiracy to feed people lies and support an elite that has things to hide, either corruption or something more far-fetched...
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So instead of the fun bunch at the FSB leaking ACTUAL documents and or recordings of ACTUAL CORRUPTION by the "elite", something that they could actually do tomorrow if they chose to - instead they go with Pizzagate?

I would love to see the minutes of that Moscow meeting.

What would happen if this keeps growing and at some point, with the great resources that no doubt China or Russia has, they decide to create, this time undeniable evidence of whatever conspiracy they choose? Imagine, a video, created with state of the art special effects of Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump participating in a Satanic mass or any other thing that gets people to revolt...
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Normally I'd advise you to read a few more hardbacked books, but instead I will point out that at this point in the 21st Century we have Wikileaks, and other hacking outfits that have been stealing and airing the US's dirty laundry since 2006. This means that anybody with half a brain can read REAL CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS and quickly learn the difference between them and the fake ones.

Faking facts is difficult, it always has been, and fails 99% of the time.

These days there is enough real corruption at all levels of government that there is no need to fake anything, just find it and leak it to the public and the damage is done.

Should throw in that Satanism isn't the bugaboo it used to be.
 
Abooga said:
OK, I have to take a break now, I´ll be back later and try to articulate again why I think demands for evidence of the same form that would be acceptable to prove other things is not expectable in the case of CT-s. That it´s more like a crime scene investigation where you suspect someone has been tampering with the evidence. But later.

Meanwhile let me point you to my post 616, (the number of the beast, weird innit? :D), I don´t think anyone has noticed it... any thoughts?
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No, if you are going do insinuate that someone sexually assaults children, you do need a high level of evidence. Just because some people have some silly little, meaningless hobby does not mean they get to suggest that specific people commit serious crimes. So, either provide evidence of a crime or stop being irresponsible and slandering people.
 
Trump aide Michael Flynn Jnr out after 'Pizzagate' tweets

One of Donald Trump's aides has lost his job after fanning a conspiracy theory that climaxed at the weekend in gunfire at a pizzeria.

Michael Flynn, 33, left the US president-elect's transition team on Tuesday following his tweets about the so-called Pizzagate fake news story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38231532
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump aide Michael Flynn Jnr out after 'Pizzagate' tweets

One of Donald Trump's aides has lost his job after fanning a conspiracy theory that climaxed at the weekend in gunfire at a pizzeria.

Michael Flynn, 33, left the US president-elect's transition team on Tuesday following his tweets about the so-called Pizzagate fake news story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38231532
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Did we mention that this took about 5 seconds of research and that the transition team was working on getting him a security clearance? His gab page was a real eye opener.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Trump aide Michael Flynn Jnr out after 'Pizzagate' tweets

One of Donald Trump's aides has lost his job after fanning a conspiracy theory that climaxed at the weekend in gunfire at a pizzeria.

Michael Flynn, 33, left the US president-elect's transition team on Tuesday following his tweets about the so-called Pizzagate fake news story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38231532
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And his Dad, who is going to be national security adviser, sounds like just as much a nutter. This is going to end well...
 
Abooga, it is very simple to udnerstand why what you lsited on pizzagate is irrelevant.

You have established a shape correlation, not in the sense that they are linked, but in the sense that stuff are similar to each other.

In other word what you have done is establish that the curve of the price of potatoe in 19th century in ireland LOOK LIKE the curve number of pirate in the western india.

This is only a look like. The problem is that there is NO CAUSATION. There is no relationship between pirate and potatoe price.

And that is the problem. You see stuff that look alike and you /pizzagate jump up and down and say "see that look alike !", yeah well so do the price of potatoe and number of priate. So what ???

You (Pizzagate) have not established any causation and have not presented any evidence whatsoever.

This is all recognizing animal form into the cloud : congrat you can look at shape and recognize form. But that does not mean the cloud are trying to copy a sheep. That jsut mean your brain is good at seeing identical stuff around.

You are at step ZERO : you have seen thing you THINK are identical in shape, but you have not established any causation whatsoever.

You may as well declare right now that the number of pirate is obviously causaed by the potatoe price : the curve are identical ! This is exactely what pizzagate is doing.
 
What, you mean that even if the birth rate in early 20th century Sweden correlated closely with the number of storks in the village, that storks don't bring babies? I done been schooled!
 
RussDill said:
Did we mention that this took about 5 seconds of research and that the transition team was working on getting him a security clearance? His gab page was a real eye opener.
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Spreading pizzagate rumors and Alex Jones nonsense ought to be sufficient grounds for immediate dismissal. Instead, it's no big deal until someone shoots up a restaurant, and then, the real problem isn't spreading rumors about a ridiculous conspiracy theory. The real problem is that now the conspiracy theory got a lot of bad press, and it could be embarrassing.
 
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